on the topic of innovation...

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Halo 4 was a great game. There’s no denying it, there’s no questioning it. And yet, many do. My favorite example is Buckeye Breeze, a halo follower employee who uses the halo follower videos to hate on halo 4 and state that the community agrees with him, while most of us don’t. Unfortunately unsurprisingly, many were ticked off at the thought of someone besides bungie making halo games. But the smarter members of the halo community held their tongue, and waited to see if 343industries would deliver. And when they did, some of us accepted the new company as a worthy replacement and were happy that there still were halo games.

SOME OF US.

The rest looked at features such as sprint and custom loadouts and scorned 343. These new, innovative features added much more fun and excitement to halo’s classic gameplay, and there was nothing unbalanced about them. And yet, around 25% of the community were sorely disapointed when halo 4 wasn’t a cookie cutter halo 3 with better graphics. And while I’ll agree that they could have done so much better with forge, there is no reason to hate on a game for doing that. In fact, we should be hating on games that don’t do that. And yet, games like call of duty are getting praised like gods, while the upcoming advanced warfare is the first new engine since the first game.

I’m not here to hate on call of duty. It has hogged the spotlight for quite some time, simply because it is a good game. Perhaps the new advanced warfare will surprise us with new stuff, but I’m not convinced. Anyway, I’m sick and tired of people hating on 343 just because it changed the formula. Slightly. It is still definitely halo, and always will be, and yet some people are acting like they released Aliens: Colonial Marines instead of a solid game.

I know that I’ll get comments saying that I’m not a true halo fan and all that jazz, but I’ve played halo since I was seven. It is my favorite franchise in gaming of all time. The fact that new things are being added and broken or not working things are being removed is not a bad thing!!! People need to wake up, stop complaining about sprint and other things, and go play a few matches of halo 4 matchmaking. Take note of how much fun you have.

I put this in the Halo 5 Guardians post because of this final word: If it ain’t broke, that don’t mean it can’t be better. 343, I want you to do what you did again. Surprise us with new things and incredible ideas. If we want elites back, maybe you could let us play as brutes too. Or maybe we could drive a scarab, another fan favorite let us drive it! vehicle, the first being the pelican. However you do it, do it well. It will still be good if it’s not exactly like halo 4. So put innovation into your games. 75% of the community, hopefully more soon, is at your back.

2

343 didn’t change the formula “slightly;” they changed it fundamentally, to the point that multiplayer strayed very far away from its roots. It’s great if you liked the new features and can still have fun with them, but the legitimate complaints that most of the community have shouldn’t go ignored.

People against Halo 4’s changes aren’t asking for a “cookie cutter Halo 3 with better graphics.” We’re asking for innovations that don’t significantly change Halo’s identity.

3

> Halo 4 was a great game. There’s no denying it,there’s no questioning it.

Great is stretching it a lot and is actually very questionable.

> And yet, many do. My favorite example is Buckeye Breeze, a halo follower employee who uses the halo follower videos to hate on halo 4 and state that the community agrees with him, while most of us don’t. Unfortunately unsurprisingly, many were ticked off at the thought of someone besides bungie making halo games. But the smarter members of the halo community held their tongue, and waited to see if 343industries would deliver. And when they did, some of us accepted the new company as a worthy replacement and were happy that there still were halo games.

Actually until Destiny I saw Bungie as the better company, but compared to Destiny Halo 4 is the best game ever (but this is like comparing Transformers to Twilight).

> SOME OF US.
>
> The rest looked at features such as sprint and custom loadouts and scorned 343. These new, innovative features added much more fun and excitement to halo’s classic gameplay, and there was nothing unbalanced about them. And yet, around 25% of the community were sorely disapointed when halo 4 wasn’t a cookie cutter halo 3 with better graphics. And while I’ll agree that they could have done so much better with forge, there is no reason to hate on a game for doing that. In fact, we should be hating on games that don’t do that. And yet, games like call of duty are getting praised like gods, while the upcoming advanced warfare is the first new engine since the first game.

Innovative? Fun?
No not at all, there was never an instance where I felt loadouts were actually usefull or good and the reason why Sprint is bad has been debated for death on this forum.
Also 25%? Yes that is why the population was less than 5% of what it used to be after a single year of release with many on the forums voicing their distaste on the forums (I believe we are now at 3%).

> I’m not here to hate on call of duty. It has hogged the spotlight for quite some time, simply because it is a good game. Perhaps the new advanced warfare will surprise us with new stuff, but I’m not convinced. Anyway, I’m sick and tired of people hating on 343 just because it changed the formula. Slightly. It is still definitely halo, and always will be, and yet some people are acting like they released Aliens: Colonial Marines instead of a solid game.

According to you it is definitely Halo, according to myself and others it lacks in certain fields and considering it differentiates from the previous Halos in many fields (as you actually praise) the wind is in our backs.

> I know that I’ll get comments saying that I’m not a true halo fan and all that jazz, but I’ve played halo since I was seven. It is my favorite franchise in gaming of all time. The fact that new things are being added and broken or not working things are being removed is not a bad thing!!! People need to wake up, stop complaining about sprint and other things, and go play a few matches of halo 4 matchmaking. Take note of how much fun you have.

Or you need to wake up and understand that we should not take away what makes Halo Halo.
Also I stopped playing Halo 4 entirely and like others I am waiting till MCC, Halo 3 is a hackers paradise since no one is behind the ban hammer and Halo 4 is just boring and a bad Halo game (same for Halo Reach).
If this was truly your favorite franchise than you would want it to be different from the rest, not that it takes mechanics from other games and call it “innovation”.

4

The best analysis I read after Halo 4’s release was something like this:

343i tried to combine the best aspects of halo with the best aspects of COD to please as many people as possible. But because the target audience was so wide and varied, Halo 4 didn’t please anybody.

Halo’s identity (at least while it was successful) is a small, competitive arena shooter. I welcome any innovation that does not deviate from that one sentence. It’s safe to say that COD will always be a bigger game and that’s fine. Personally I think it’s more important to be the best at something than the biggest.

5

> Halo 4 was a great game.

Not really.

There were a myriad of problems with just the campaign alone. Most notable being strawman characters like Del Rio and problematic campaign levels like the Mammoth level.

Then you get into the MP, then into the machinima making, then into Forge, then into theater…

And by the very definition, neither sprint nor custom loadouts are innovative.

6

Halo 4 MP broke from the roots of Halo (not a good thing). I like “new” and “innovative” things but not what H4 did.

Seriously though I would like to see where you got your stats from. 75% of the Halo community supported what 343 did with H4? No, I highly doubt that.

I’m not saying we should have H2 remade every year but we also can’t go down the path of H4 again. Halo 4 for me was a 7/10.

7

I don’t understand the hate towards Halo 4 either and I’ve played Halo since the very first game including ODST and Halo Wars. Part of that might be because I’m not a multiplayer person so if I like the campaign, which I did save for how short it was, than I’m good with it. Even the multiplayer stuff though I really liked. As to why people hated that stuff I have to ask…didn’t they include classic playlists where you didn’t have to play with the new toys?

8

> 2533274797230235;7:
> I don’t understand the hate towards Halo 4 either and I’ve played Halo since the very first game including ODST and Halo Wars. Part of that might be because I’m not a multiplayer person so if I like the campaign, which I did save for how short it was, than I’m good with it. Even the multiplayer stuff though I really liked. As to why people hated that stuff I have to ask…didn’t they include classic playlists where you didn’t have to play with the new toys?

They introduced a classic playlist months after the game’s release. And it was inadequate because of the troubling mechanics that are standard with Halo 4, such as flinch instead of descope. Besides, the traditional gameplay should have been the main gameplay.

9

> 2533274897839367;5:
> > Halo 4 was a great game.
>
>
> Not really.
>
> There were a myriad of problems with just the campaign alone. Most notable being strawman characters like Del Rio and problematic campaign levels like the Mammoth level.
>
> Then you get into the MP, then into the machinima making, then into Forge, then into theater…
>
> And by the very definition, neither sprint nor custom loadouts are innovative.

I would say that Halo 4 was a great first try, but as pointed out above there were a lot of missteps and missed opportunities.

There was a fundamental error in the approach to multiplayer. Well, several fundamental errors. They are inexcusable because of the mountain of data available from the last four games with online multiplayer, which was either misinterpreted or ignored. Seriously, the lack of a (I hate to use this word but…) “classic” gametype on launch was… unfortunate, considering the turmoil that was still at full intensity with Reach when H4 released.

Every Halo fan will now get another shot at the first three games, all optimized for the new platform. Deviations from that norm in Halo 5 will be noticed immediately and the criticism will come fast and furious. Halo 5 will have to be “the same”, “different”, and “better”, although if it’s not “the same” and “different” it won’t be “better.”

No pressure, 343i. None at all.

10

After reading this post I had to open a window to let all the bias out.

11

> 2533274876456769;2:
> 343 didn’t change the formula “slightly;” they changed it fundamentally, to the point that multiplayer strayed very far away from its roots. It’s great if you liked the new features and can still have fun with them, but the legitimate complaints that most of the community have shouldn’t go ignored.
>
> People against Halo 4’s changes aren’t asking for a “cookie cutter Halo 3 with better graphics.” We’re asking for innovations that don’t significantly change Halo’s identity.

343 did change the formula slightly. I think the problem a lot of people have is that they changed some of the fundamentals for a slightly different overall formula. Halo 4 feels and plays like a Halo game, more so than Reach, even, so I think it’s still great, despite some of it’s faults.

As for the people against Halo 4’s changes, that is simply not the case. Like I already said, Halo 4’s changes didn’t “significantly change Halo’s identity,” but disregarding that; I know for a fact there a lot of people, maybe even the majority of people that did just want Halo 3 with better graphics. A lot of them aren’t just against Halo 4 style changes, they are against changes. I’ve seen plenty of people demonizing 343 for even hinting at any change at all. Halo is my favorite series, and I’ve loved all the games, so it really makes me sad that 343 can’t win, because no matter what they do, a large section of the fanbase will hate it.

12

> 2533274897839367;5:
> > Halo 4 was a great game.
>
>
> Not really.
>
> There were a myriad of problems with just the campaign alone. Most notable being strawman characters like Del Rio and problematic campaign levels like the Mammoth level.
>
> Then you get into the MP, then into the machinima making, then into Forge, then into theater…
>
> And by the very definition, neither sprint nor custom loadouts are innovative.

I’m clearly biased, since I’ve loved every Halo, but I would call Halo 4 great. As you mentioned, there are several objective problems, but it still has what makes Halo as a series so great, and I think that alone is enough.

13

> 2533274863542426;11:
> > 2533274876456769;2:
> > 343 didn’t change the formula “slightly;” they changed it fundamentally, to the point that multiplayer strayed very far away from its roots. It’s great if you liked the new features and can still have fun with them, but the legitimate complaints that most of the community have shouldn’t go ignored.
> >
> > People against Halo 4’s changes aren’t asking for a “cookie cutter Halo 3 with better graphics.” We’re asking for innovations that don’t significantly change Halo’s identity.
>
>
>
> 343 did change the formula slightly. I think the problem a lot of people have is that they changed some of the fundamentals for a slightly different overall formula. Halo 4 feels and plays like a Halo game, more so than Reach, even, so I think it’s still great, despite some of it’s faults.
>
> As for the people against Halo 4’s changes, that is simply not the case. Like I already said, Halo 4’s changes didn’t “significantly change Halo’s identity,” but disregarding that; I know for a fact there a lot of people, maybe even the majority of people that did just want Halo 3 with better graphics. A lot of them aren’t just against Halo 4 style changes, they are against changes. I’ve seen plenty of people demonizing 343 for even hinting at any change at all. Halo is my favorite series, and I’ve loved all the games, so it really makes me sad that 343 can’t win, because no matter what they do, a large section of the fanbase will hate it.

4’s changes did significantly change the multiplayer identity. Halo is supposed to be an arena shooter, plus being able to spawn with plasma pistols, plasma grenades, a one-shot pistol, and armor abilities was incredibly game breaking. Not to mention the addition of perks, which took away base abilities that we’ve always had in past Halos. There are a myriad of other things including flinch, personal ordnance, weapon markers, etc.

14

> 2533274876456769;13:
> > 2533274863542426;11:
> > > 2533274876456769;2:
> > > 343 didn’t change the formula “slightly;” they changed it fundamentally, to the point that multiplayer strayed very far away from its roots. It’s great if you liked the new features and can still have fun with them, but the legitimate complaints that most of the community have shouldn’t go ignored.
> > >
> > > People against Halo 4’s changes aren’t asking for a “cookie cutter Halo 3 with better graphics.” We’re asking for innovations that don’t significantly change Halo’s identity.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 343 did change the formula slightly. I think the problem a lot of people have is that they changed some of the fundamentals for a slightly different overall formula. Halo 4 feels and plays like a Halo game, more so than Reach, even, so I think it’s still great, despite some of it’s faults.
> >
> > As for the people against Halo 4’s changes, that is simply not the case. Like I already said, Halo 4’s changes didn’t “significantly change Halo’s identity,” but disregarding that; I know for a fact there a lot of people, maybe even the majority of people that did just want Halo 3 with better graphics. A lot of them aren’t just against Halo 4 style changes, they are against changes. I’ve seen plenty of people demonizing 343 for even hinting at any change at all. Halo is my favorite series, and I’ve loved all the games, so it really makes me sad that 343 can’t win, because no matter what they do, a large section of the fanbase will hate it.
>
>
> 4’s changes did significantly change the multiplayer identity. Halo is supposed to be an arena shooter, plus being able to spawn with plasma pistols, plasma grenades, a one-shot pistol, and armor abilities was incredibly game breaking. Not to mention the addition of perks, which took away base abilities that we’ve always had in past Halos. There are a myriad of other things including flinch, personal ordnance, weapon markers, etc.

At the core of every Halo is guns, grenades, and melee. That’s very much true for Halo 4 as well. The core gameplay is still intact, and it’s as good as ever. I kind of agree on some of the loadout weapons, but I don’t at all see how armor abilities are game breaking. They just add more variety and gameplay styles. Since the core is still there, I’m willing to forgive the faults Halo 4 does have, but I do understand it has faults. That being said, most of them I think are just kind of meh. They don’t really add anything positive, but they also don’t really take anything away either. 343 has listened the the community and I don’t think we’ll see much of what wasn’t liked about Halo 4 in Halo 5. Still, I think Halo 4 is great, and although it could have been better, it really doesn’t deserve all the hate it gets.

15

The new elements that were introduced in Halo 4 completely overshadowed the core mechanics. Example, In halo 2/3 weapons were to be earned but in Halo 4 weapon drops/load outs completely negates that. Any distant PvP I was in, sprint just allowed for the opponent to run away and without a ranking system, matches became boring. I could list another 20 reasons but I don’t have the time to go into detail. Point is, Halo 4 strayed away from what makes Halo great. A great arena shooter that emphasizes on team work and map control with solid shooting mechanics.

16

> 2533274863542426;14:
> > 2533274876456769;13:
> > > 2533274863542426;11:
> > > > 2533274876456769;2:
> > > > 343 didn’t change the formula “slightly;” they changed it fundamentally, to the point that multiplayer strayed very far away from its roots. It’s great if you liked the new features and can still have fun with them, but the legitimate complaints that most of the community have shouldn’t go ignored.
> > > >
> > > > People against Halo 4’s changes aren’t asking for a “cookie cutter Halo 3 with better graphics.” We’re asking for innovations that don’t significantly change Halo’s identity.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 343 did change the formula slightly. I think the problem a lot of people have is that they changed some of the fundamentals for a slightly different overall formula. Halo 4 feels and plays like a Halo game, more so than Reach, even, so I think it’s still great, despite some of it’s faults.
> > >
> > > As for the people against Halo 4’s changes, that is simply not the case. Like I already said, Halo 4’s changes didn’t “significantly change Halo’s identity,” but disregarding that; I know for a fact there a lot of people, maybe even the majority of people that did just want Halo 3 with better graphics. A lot of them aren’t just against Halo 4 style changes, they are against changes. I’ve seen plenty of people demonizing 343 for even hinting at any change at all. Halo is my favorite series, and I’ve loved all the games, so it really makes me sad that 343 can’t win, because no matter what they do, a large section of the fanbase will hate it.
> >
> >
> >
> > 4’s changes did significantly change the multiplayer identity. Halo is supposed to be an arena shooter, plus being able to spawn with plasma pistols, plasma grenades, a one-shot pistol, and armor abilities was incredibly game breaking. Not to mention the addition of perks, which took away base abilities that we’ve always had in past Halos. There are a myriad of other things including flinch, personal ordnance, weapon markers, etc.
>
>
> At the core of every Halo is guns, grenades, and melee. That’s very much true for Halo 4 as well. The core gameplay is still intact, and it’s as good as ever. I kind of agree on some of the loadout weapons, but I don’t at all see how armor abilities are game breaking. They just add more variety and gameplay styles. Since the core is still there, I’m willing to forgive the faults Halo 4 does have, but I do understand it has faults. That being said, most of them I think are just kind of meh. They don’t really add anything positive, but they also don’t really take anything away either. 343 has listened the the community and I don’t think we’ll see much of what wasn’t liked about Halo 4 in Halo 5. Still, I think Halo 4 is great, and although it could have been better, it really doesn’t deserve all the hate it gets.

I definitely don’t think Halo 4 deserves hate, but it can’t be denied that 343 strayed very far away from the series’ roots in multiplayer. Armor abilities are bad because Halo is an arena shooter, meaning that players are supposed to start off equally. I don’t mind things like AAs and ordnance for some nontraditional modes, but the main gameplay should stick the roots.

17

No evidence to back your claim. The truth is that Halo 4, in terms of it’s PvP was a massive failure to the majority of the Halo community, which is by nature, mostly competitive.

18

> 2533274863542426;11:
> > 2533274876456769;2:
> > 343 didn’t change the formula “slightly;” they changed it fundamentally, to the point that multiplayer strayed very far away from its roots. It’s great if you liked the new features and can still have fun with them, but the legitimate complaints that most of the community have shouldn’t go ignored.
> >
> > People against Halo 4’s changes aren’t asking for a “cookie cutter Halo 3 with better graphics.” We’re asking for innovations that don’t significantly change Halo’s identity.
>
>
> 343 did change the formula slightly. I think the problem a lot of people have is that they changed some of the fundamentals for a slightly different overall formula. Halo 4 feels and plays like a Halo game, more so than Reach, even, so I think it’s still great, despite some of it’s faults.
>
> As for the people against Halo 4’s changes, that is simply not the case. Like I already said, Halo 4’s changes didn’t “significantly change Halo’s identity,” but disregarding that; I know for a fact there a lot of people, maybe even the majority of people that did just want Halo 3 with better graphics. A lot of them aren’t just against Halo 4 style changes, they are against changes. I’ve seen plenty of people demonizing 343 for even hinting at any change at all. Halo is my favorite series, and I’ve loved all the games, so it really makes me sad that 343 can’t win, because no matter what they do, a large section of the fanbase will hate it.

Flinch instead of descoping
Introduction of default sprint
Custom loadouts with both weapons and changeable player traits
Randomized weapon spawns with no prior warning or alert at all

Hardly innovative and are quite the changes to the game.

What Halo 4 feels like is different for everyone. While to you it feels like a Halo game, I’m finding it more towards the BF and CoD section of the game spectrum, simply because the changes and additions to it overshadow many of the great qualities Halo have/had, and that those changes and additions mainly origin from that spectrum.

As for people wanting a reskinned Halo 3, that’s not true. You may find a couple of persons advocating that, but the vast majority wants the continued Halo games to build upon the Halo trilogy, not mimic other shooters. Additionally, no one is against change, they’re against change for the sake of change, which is quite unnecessary. Or change that is either contradictory to the game mechanics, detrimental or plain bad.

I may not suggest many ideas or changes, but the ones I have posted have gathered quite a lot of positive feedback, with some negativity of course, but I’ve seen mainly positive things. The three main points I’ve put forward has been an improvement to the Ordnance System, a new layer of combat with multigravitational maps and a very fleshed out survival game mode.

As with every product, there will be complainers, even if the product is good. However if there are plenty of complaints and negative feedback while the user base drops fast, there’s something not right with the product, it’s not the users. If the intent of the product is to keep users using it plenty of course.

19

> 2535419263424440;1:
> Halo 4 was a great game. There’s no denying it, there’s no questioning it.

What are opinions?

Also, sup Sammy.

20

> 2533274863542426;14:
> At the core of every Halo is guns, grenades, and melee. That’s very much true for Halo 4 as well. The core gameplay is still intact, and it’s as good as ever. I kind of agree on some of the loadout weapons, but I don’t at all see how armor abilities are game breaking. They just add more variety and gameplay styles. Since the core is still there, I’m willing to forgive the faults Halo 4 does have, but I do understand it has faults. That being said, most of them I think are just kind of meh. They don’t really add anything positive, but they also don’t really take anything away either. 343 has listened the the community and I don’t think we’ll see much of what wasn’t liked about Halo 4 in Halo 5. Still, I think Halo 4 is great, and although it could have been better, it really doesn’t deserve all the hate it gets.

If in Halo 5 we have loadouts that allow to spawn with a rocket (“heavy class”), a sniper (“marksman class”) or a shotgun (“don’t know what class”), at the core it will still be guns, grenades and melee. But strangly, I feel like it won’t play exactly the same. And this was just speaking about loadouts.