Ok now I need to why you all hate Reach!

[UPDATE]

Honestly what is all of your problems. What is it with the complaining about Reach huh?!
To be truly honest, Reach is the best Halo game released (yet) and I can’t see why you all hate it So much. To me Reach perfected Halo’s core and made some very great additions and was more than worth the $60 I payed for it. And all I here is “Reach sucks, MM sucks, Tu sucks” blablabla.

I do not mean to attack anyone or put anyone down. I’m just so sick of the ignorance and complaining.

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.

I just disagree with the campaign it just didn’t seem right to me I guess…

> Honestly what is all of your problems. What is it with the complaining about Reach huh?!
> To be truly honest, Reach is the best Halo game released (yet) and I can’t see why you all hate it So much. To me Reach perfected Halo’s core and made some very great additions and was more than worth the $60 I payed for it. And all I here is “Reach sucks, MM sucks, Tu sucks” blablabla. If you don’t care for Reach that’s fine but If all you do is complain about it, all of you are no better than COD’S community. So give me ONE good reason why Reach sucks and If you can’t you are all pathetic and should not even be Halo fans in the first place!

I 100% agree! Finally someone that isn’t ignorant!

> I just disagree with the campaign it just didn’t seem right to me I guess…

Same the multiplayer is top notch but to me just an opinion the campaign was just lacking something. I just get so bored with it. I bought the legendary edition and I think i have gotten way over my moneys worth in fun I love reach its just the campaign…

> > I just disagree with the campaign it just didn’t seem right to me I guess…
>
> Same the multiplayer is top notch but to me just an opinion the campaign was just lacking something. I just get so bored with it. I bought the legendary edition and I think i have gotten way over my moneys worth in fun I love reach its just the campaign…

I understand you both. Although I loved the space ship mission, campaign in Reach wasn’t all that great. Hopefully Halo 4’s will be better.

Yeah its pretty awesome mulitplayer and once Headlong was back I can hardly stop playing Anniversary.

> > Honestly what is all of your problems. What is it with the complaining about Reach huh?!
> > To be truly honest, Reach is the best Halo game released (yet) and I can’t see why you all hate it So much. To me Reach perfected Halo’s core and made some very great additions and was more than worth the $60 I payed for it. And all I here is “Reach sucks, MM sucks, Tu sucks” blablabla. If you don’t care for Reach that’s fine but If all you do is complain about it, all of you are no better than COD’S community. So give me ONE good reason why Reach sucks and If you can’t you are all pathetic and should not even be Halo fans in the first place!
>
> I 100% agree! Finally someone that isn’t ignorant!

Thank you.

> > > I just disagree with the campaign it just didn’t seem right to me I guess…
> >
> > Same the multiplayer is top notch but to me just an opinion the campaign was just lacking something. I just get so bored with it. I bought the legendary edition and I think i have gotten way over my moneys worth in fun I love reach its just the campaign…
>
> I understand you both. Although I loved the space ship mission, campaign in Reach wasn’t all that great. Hopefully Halo 4’s will be better.

I KNOWWWW I saw space fighting before reach came out and flipped out but was kinda sad when it was for only part of one mission wish there was more space battles.

I was a bit disappointed with the campaign. I don’t give a rat’s behind about the canon breach (or whatever people call it), but for a campaign focused on a small group of people, it was pretty sad to see them underdeveloped. The story could’ve used a lot of work for a game that was about “boots on the ground”. It’s kinda funny that I feel ODST did it better. Could’ve used more Joe Staten, I guess.

But yeah, beyond that, Reach is awesome. Forge is great, Hemorrhage, and Theater in campaign! And sue me, I like the ranking system in Reach. I hated deranking the match AFTER I just ranked up a game before.

In brief, ‘We’ don’t just hate Reach, ‘We’ hate it in comparison to the other halo games; especially the games from the original trilogy.
For example, going from ODST’s firefight mode to Reach’s just felt…wrong; Im sorry but something just wasn’t right. It was such a thrill to see in ODST how many grunts you killed in thirty minutes to trying to survive annoying hoards of enemies with target locators, over shields, ridiculous jump heights, AR, etc. ( Basically alot of the new things implemented in FF in reach killed the fun quickly).
On a personal not I didn’t lose my mind over FF, what I could not stand was the shear disappointment left in the game that never changed; The first being stupid ally AIs (LIKE KAT WHO LOVES TO DRIVE OF A CLIFF)! I mean seriously; in tip of the spear, once you clear out the first batch of enemies and your given this “awesome looking rocket hog” you probably would really want to gun the hog and expect the AI is finally capable of driving…and so many players fell off cliffs and fall in fit of rage and furry. Which is just partially the issue, AI are still useless in combat even though they can take a better beating in Reach than that of previous halo game; their still utterly useless!
Moving on to MP; there are several issues that I simply cannot all address, But the most occasional blame falls onto Armor Abilities and bloom. To put it in very simple terms: Bloom is just unnecessarily frustrating and AAs considered a nuisance; Among all AAs Mainly the Armorlock, holograms (especially for newbies), camo (which everyone keeps debating on its limits; suggesting its alway unbalanced), and jetpacks (because…well…its annoying to not be able to see who killed). Other abilities like sprint and evade are unnecessary; because these abilities exist your speed has been toned down dramatically while walking normally in comparison to the normal walking/trekking speed of that of previous halo games also both these abilities and jetpack support a player in fleeing an engagement from the enemy.; which again to many is consider annoying.
There are plenty of point, but I just wanted to point out obvious first points in “Fall of Reach”.

Reach MatchMaking is fun and a fun time with friends, the ranking system was less complex but was a little to big. Armory was awesome. Firefight, options are awesome and so are some maps. Forge is unbelievably advanced compared to halo 3, just needs a little more color. Custom games is what you make of it. Campaign is different, and you have to make it your own as well. The glitches/easter eggs were fun and still are in campaign. Reach is Reach, we need to take aspects from it and leave some behind. We’ll see in Halo 4. In comparison to other halo games reach was less fun and more constructive… we need to combine them.

> In brief, ‘We’ don’t just hate Reach, ‘We’ hate it in comparison to the other halo games; especially the games from the original trilogy.
> For example, going from ODST’s firefight mode to Reach’s just felt…wrong; Im sorry but something just wasn’t right. It was such a thrill to see in ODST how many grunts you killed in thirty minutes to trying to survive annoying hoards of enemies with target locators, over shields, ridiculous jump heights, AR, etc. ( Basically alot of the new things implemented in FF in reach killed the fun quickly).
> On a personal not I didn’t lose my mind over FF, what I could not stand was the shear disappointment left in the game that never changed; The first being stupid ally AIs (LIKE KAT WHO LOVES TO DRIVE OF A CLIFF)! I mean seriously; in tip of the spear, once you clear out the first batch of enemies and your given this “awesome looking rocket hog” you probably would really want to gun the hog and expect the AI is finally capable of driving…and so many players fell off cliffs and fall in fit of rage and furry. Which is just partially the issue, AI are still useless in combat even though they can take a better beating in Reach than that of previous halo game; their still utterly useless!
> Moving on to MP; there are several issues that I simply cannot all address, But the most occasional blame falls onto Armor Abilities and bloom. To put it in very simple terms: Bloom is just unnecessarily frustrating and AAs considered a nuisance; Among all AAs Mainly the Armorlock, holograms (especially for newbies), camo (which everyone keeps debating on its limits; suggesting its alway unbalanced), and jetpacks (because…well…its annoying to not be able to see who killed). Other abilities like sprint and evade are unnecessary; because these abilities exist your speed has been toned down dramatically while walking normally in comparison to the normal walking/trekking speed of that of previous halo games also both these abilities and jetpack support a player in fleeing an engagement from the enemy.; which again to many is consider annoying.
> There are plenty of point, but I just wanted to point out obvious first points in “Fall of Reach”.

Thank you for making valid points and sensible reasons towards your dislikement of reach. You are a true Halo fan.

Let me guess, you saw one of the many other threads on this topic earlier and figured that you just HAD make your own. Sound about right? Yeah, thought so. This place reminds me of b.net in the worse possible way…

Look, if you truly want to understand what all the hate for Reach is about, actually read through the myriad of threads already posted here discussing it. I guarantee you that there are plenty of valid reasons stated therein. I don’t want to be “that guy” and point out the super, insanely obvious search bar at the top of the page… Well look at that, I just did. If you have an opinion, or want to read about what others are thinking, BAM! solution right there. No need to pollute this forum with these repeat threads.

One reason you say? Here, I’ll give you a few more:

-Grenade damage
-Grenade radius
-Frag grenades sticking
-Maps with too many CQC power weapons (Sword Base, Crouchdown)
-Poorly implemented DMR bloom
-Bloom in general
-Movement speed
-Jump height
-Armor Lock in general
-Camo in general
-Camo sniping
-Ease of use of sniper
-Sprint
-Sprint double melee
-Sprint sword
-Jetpack
-Maps designed around jetpack
-Maps that don’t take jetpack into account
-Sword blocking
-The DMR (utility weapon is mini sniper)
-Useless weapon sandbox
-Copy paste weapon sandbox (20 re-skinned ARs)
-Terrible maps
-Unbalanced maps
-Easy to use radar
-Redundant playlists
-Poorly implemented Arena
-FFA rating system in Arena
-Poorly advertised Arena (lots of people don’t know it’s now w/l)
-No incentive to play Arena
-Non competitive settings in Arena
-Unbalanced maps in Arena
-2s tricking in Arena
-Iron boosting in Arena
-Challenges
-Challenges that encourage people to vote for terrible gametypes
-Lack of trueskill in social playlists
-Lack of skill based ranking system
-Spawn system
-Vehicles made of paper maché
-Vehicle combat
-The sniper’s effectiveness against vehicles
-The Banshee in general
-AR starts
-Weapon variety (or lack of)
-6 shot AR melee with bleedthrough
-Invasion Slayer unbalanced
-Invasion unbalanced in general (easy to spawn kill)
-Theater downgraded since Halo 3
-Forge imprecise
-Forge tags incomplete
-Difficult to forge certain gametypes (Invasion)
-Poor forged maps in Matchmaking
-Forged maps framerate drop
-Forged maps lack of detail on splitscreen
-Poor host selection
-Host switching when not needed
-Not host switching when needed
-ARs on Countdown (it deserves its own segment)
-Sword Base in general
-Reflection in general
-Uncaged in general
-Zealot space area
-Poor forging on Asylum
-Lack of MLG party restrictions
-Lack of MLG ranking system
-Party restrictions in general
-Too few armory pieces
-Game mentality (everyone’s a winner)
-Betrayal system
-Campaign has no character development
-Campaign has no excitement or good plot
-Campaign is about pushing buttons
-Campaign in general
-End of game blackscreens
-cR in playlists with already high population
-Not using jackpots or challenges to encourage people to play the playlists which need a high population to be accurate (Arena)
-No warning when rocket launcher/rocket hog/plasma launcher has locked on and you’re in an air vehicle

Jet pack.

I dont even need to go further than that…

Every aspect of the Campaign was absolutely terrible, the music was sub-par, the menus had pictures for backgrounds, the core gameplay was worse, custom games had less options, Firefight was less interesting, and Multiplayer was a mess. That’s my opinion, and I have the right to express it however many times I feel like it. Savvy?

> So give me ONE good reason why Reach sucks and If you can’t you are all pathetic and should not even be Halo fans in the first place!

I have a lot more than just one.

1. The failed attempt to cater to casuals by catering to the unskilled.
Reach is rife with examples of Bungie attempting to appease casuals by catering to the unskilled. Armor Lock was a crutch that allowed one to stall for time so that teammates could correct your mistakes. Sword block allowed people to escape the consequences of failing to control and acquire the Energy Sword before the other team. Non-bleed-through damage made melee charges – an infamously-thoughtless technique – far more viable than they should have been.

Unfortunately, even many casuals hate bullcrap gameplay. While many of the people who left Halo because of Reach were competitives and average players, there were nonetheless quite a few casuals that were driven away as well.

2. Destruction of existing and functional game dynamics via the introduction of ill-thought-out game mechanics.
Many existing game dynamics were damaged or destroyed with Reach. Jetpack is the most egregious and blatant example: it entirely circumvents the concept of map control. Gone are the days where you had to work (with your team) to get to the top floor or area of a map; now, you just hold a button and press your joystick forward.

3. Giving rewards for doing absolutely nothing.
It is generally accepted that a game mechanic should offer a reward proportional to the effort expended in its use. That is to say: if something is very difficult, it should pay off. This is generally what people mean when they refer to a game mechanic as “skillful”: the reward it offers is proportionate to the skill and effort needed to use it. Armor Abilities work against this concept: they offer massive bonuses at the press of a button – rewarding you for doing nothing. Camo, Jetpack, and – most infamously – Armor Lock are the biggest offenders, though in objective games, Drop Shield is also highly problematic in this regard.

4. A poorly-designed sandbox in which only a small handful of weapons are useful.
I really, really hope I don’t even have to explain this to you. It’s not a matter of skill or stats: anyone who has played Matchmaking in this game for a decent amount of time should recognize how pitifully useless every weapon except for power weapons and the DMR are.

5. Ripping off of a failed, unsuccessful game.
Most of Reach’s “new” mechanics – bloom, crouching to reduce bloom, Armor Abilities, and others – were taken almost directly from another game, called “Shadowrun”. This is no coincidence: Sage Merrill, the lead sandbox designer for Reach, was a Shadowrun game designer. Fun fact: the game development studio that made Shadowrun never made another game. It went out of business because Shadowrun was a commercial failure.

6. A lackluster Campaign.
Look at the advertising for any Halo game and it becomes immediately apparent that the Campaign is one of the most prominent and cared-for aspects of the game. Reach’s campaign was absolutely lackluster, however. The friendly AI were the most useless in the history of the series. The story was short, dull, and much of the plot was irrelevant filler material that had nothing at all to do with the conclusion. The characters were cardboard cutouts, because they were never given enough time to develop. The gameplay was repetitive switch-mashing, with dissatisfyingly few waves of enemies. The environment was washed out and dull, and the music was – save for a few rare moments of excellent composition – even duller. There was no emotion of any kind – no sense of wonder at a breathtaking environment, no vengeful rage after seeing a pivotal character die, no suspense or feelings of foreboding leading up to the reveal of a space zombie. Nothing.

7. The poor file-sharing capabilities.
In Halo 3, we had Bungie Favourites. Technically, these weren’t chosen by Bungie. Bungie delegated the selection to groups, which made the pick. Nonetheless, we ended up with cool, quirky, and funny screenshots and content. Compare this to the mindless trash that fills Halo: Reach’s “Most Downloaded” list. The File Browser is also massively clunky; while some of this can be attributed to the limitations of the console, it is impossible to deny that the file tagging system is clumsy and barely useful, and the File Browser’s stiff (for lack of a better word) UI cripples its utility when searching for online files.

8. The moronic bugs and poorly-implemented systems.
Constant host migrations except when they’re necessary. Quit ban warnings in the middle of matches. Quit bans that punish the people who stay more than the people who quit. Fake AFK detection based on guesswork. An exploitable mute ban system. A Skinner box “credit” system that sabotages objective games, and ultimately becomes next to useless, since some gametypes (FF Arcade) hand credits out like candy on Halloween. Non-skill-based matching being the default in Matchmaking. Need I go on?

>

What is this I don’t even. You are seriously some kind of wizard of patience. You’ve been here far longer than I have with far more posts, yet you still find some way to explain things you’ve said 100 times over and over again.

With that said…

“^ what he said.”

> > So give me ONE good reason why Reach sucks and If you can’t you are all pathetic and should not even be Halo fans in the first place!
>
> I have a lot more than just one.
>
> 1. The failed attempt to cater to casuals by catering to the unskilled.
> Reach is rife with examples of Bungie attempting to appease casuals by catering to the unskilled. Armor Lock was a crutch that allowed one to stall for time so that teammates could correct your mistakes. Sword block allowed people to escape the consequences of failing to control and acquire the Energy Sword before the other team. Non-bleed-through damage made melee charges – an infamously-thoughtless technique – far more viable than they should have been.
>
> Unfortunately, even many casuals hate bullcrap gameplay. While many of the people who left Halo because of Reach were competitives and average players, there were nonetheless quite a few casuals that were driven away as well.
>
> 2. Destruction of existing and functional game dynamics via the introduction of ill-thought-out game mechanics.
> Many existing game dynamics were damaged or destroyed with Reach. Jetpack is the most egregious and blatant example: it entirely circumvents the concept of map control. Gone are the days where you had to work (with your team) to get to the top floor or area of a map; now, you just hold a button and press your joystick forward.
>
> 3. Giving rewards for doing absolutely nothing.
> It is generally accepted that a game mechanic should offer a reward proportional to the effort expended in its use. That is to say: if something is very difficult, it should pay off. This is generally what people mean when they refer to a game mechanic as “skillful”: the reward it offers is proportionate to the skill and effort needed to use it. Armor Abilities work against this concept: they offer massive bonuses at the press of a button – rewarding you for doing nothing. Camo, Jetpack, and – most infamously – Armor Lock are the biggest offenders, though in objective games, Drop Shield is also highly problematic in this regard.
>
> 4. A poorly-designed sandbox in which only a small handful of weapons are useful.
> I really, really hope I don’t even have to explain this to you. It’s not a matter of skill or stats: anyone who has played Matchmaking in this game for a decent amount of time should recognize how pitifully useless every weapon except for power weapons and the DMR are.
>
> 5. Ripping off of a failed, unsuccessful game.
> Most of Reach’s “new” mechanics – bloom, crouching to reduce bloom, Armor Abilities, and others – were taken almost directly from another game, called “Shadowrun”. This is no coincidence: Sage Merrill, the lead sandbox designer for Reach, was a Shadowrun game designer. Fun fact: the game development studio that made Shadowrun never made another game. It went out of business because Shadowrun was a commercial failure.
>
> 6. A lackluster Campaign.
> Look at the advertising for any Halo game and it becomes immediately apparent that the Campaign is one of the most prominent and cared-for aspects of the game. Reach’s campaign was absolutely lackluster, however. The friendly AI were the most useless in the history of the series. The story was short, dull, and much of the plot was irrelevant filler material that had nothing at all to do with the conclusion. The characters were cardboard cutouts, because they were never given enough time to develop. The gameplay was repetitive switch-mashing, with dissatisfyingly few waves of enemies. The environment was washed out and dull, and the music was – save for a few rare moments of excellent composition – even duller. There was no emotion of any kind – no sense of wonder at a breathtaking environment, no vengeful rage after seeing a pivotal character die, no suspense or feelings of foreboding leading up to the reveal of a space zombie. Nothing.
>
> 7. The poor file-sharing capabilities.
> In Halo 3, we had Bungie Favourites. Technically, these weren’t chosen by Bungie. Bungie delegated the selection to groups, which made the pick. Nonetheless, we ended up with cool, quirky, and funny screenshots and content. Compare this to the mindless trash that fills Halo: Reach’s “Most Downloaded” list. The File Browser is also massively clunky; while some of this can be attributed to the limitations of the console, it is impossible to deny that the file tagging system is clumsy and barely useful, and the File Browser’s stiff (for lack of a better word) UI cripples its utility when searching for online files.
>
> 8. The moronic bugs and poorly-implemented systems.
> Constant host migrations except when they’re necessary. Quit ban warnings in the middle of matches. Quit bans that punish the people who stay more than the people who quit. Fake AFK detection based on guesswork. An exploitable mute ban system. A Skinner box “credit” system that sabotages objective games, and ultimately becomes next to useless, since some gametypes (FF Arcade) hand credits out like candy on Halloween. Non-skill-based matching being the default in Matchmaking. Need I go on?

Couldn’t have said it better myself. I did try, up there, but I didn’t come even close.

> > Honestly what is all of your problems. What is it with the complaining about Reach huh?!
> > To be truly honest, Reach is the best Halo game released (yet) and I can’t see why you all hate it So much. To me Reach perfected Halo’s core and made some very great additions and was more than worth the $60 I payed for it. And all I here is “Reach sucks, MM sucks, Tu sucks” blablabla. If you don’t care for Reach that’s fine but If all you do is complain about it, all of you are no better than COD’S community. So give me ONE good reason why Reach sucks and If you can’t you are all pathetic and should not even be Halo fans in the first place!
>
> I 100% agree! Finally someone that isn’t ignorant!

Excuse me, but I dislike Reach for my own reasoning and most of those reasons are valid.

Just because I disagree with your opinion makes me ignorant? If you ask me, you’re the ignorant one.

EDIT: And as for David J Cobb…dude…we need to hang out.