OK lets try this, reasons why the TU is not good for reach

I expect flaming
I also expect someone to have a decent discussion. the purportion this will happen in is not going to be surprising either but here it goes

From the top

Reach was specifically designed from its earlier stages to be different
Regardless of weather you think its better or not lets just agree on that
From its alpha fase the weapons and sandbox were crafted to play as they do in vinilla reach.

I have no problem with a casual or a more competitive halo.
What i do have a problem with is trying to take one and make it like the other.

343 has failed to realize that the best way to cater to the fans that want changes is to put them in halo 4 instead of attempting to change the core mechanic of a polished product.

Reach was designed to have strong armor lock 100 percent bloom and NO BLEED THROUGH
the ability for damage to bleed through was cut INTENTIONALY in the beta phase because it was unreliable under reaches basic sandbox conditioning. For the non believers >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2OTMaqmC68

and this >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=Uhnk52vTyu4

I have no problem adapting to 85% bloom and nerfLock. However i shouldn’t have to adapt to anything, because changes of this nature should not be occuring.

Applying the title update is like dropping a toaster in a bathtub. It doesn’t work. Its fine if you like the TU. I’m happy for you. I do not beilieve 343 is ruining “HALO” i believe they are ruining “HALO Reach”.

Weather you agree with the game play style or not there were no bugs and things wored as intended. The TU has introduced countless inconsistencies.

So in the end im not attacking what they changed but the fact that they changed it.
You wouldn’t take halo 2 and attempt to make it halo Reach. Stop taking halo reach and trying to conform it to Halo 2 / wut you want future halo’s to be. Let it along and focus on your new game.

Change for the sake of change is not good. Bungie may have wanted to differentiate it from past halo games but they should have concentrated on areas that would improve the gameplay. Instead we get a ton of gimmicky AA’s and bloom.

I just don’t understand why people would WANT randomness over a precise weapon.

See thats the thing, Halo reach was different if you dont like it then fine just don’t play it but don’t break it for those that enjoy it by trying to reballence the entire mechanic. This is an example of wut i mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2OTMaqmC68

Firstly that is an unintended glitch, i doubt it is going to be fixed but it hardly breaks the game compared to how much the TU improves it.

Secondly your opening statement could apply to you now. You dont like the TU don’t play it. You still have plenty of playlists (Team slayer,Squad DLC,Invasion,Rumble pit etc)that have not been updated.

Halo Reach drove a lot of HaloCE-3 lovers away. This is just 343’s attempt at bringing them back before Halo 4.

Your still missing the point of the op.
You shouldn’t make mager Mechanics changes to a polished work. Just add the changes in the new game.

And how can you say one shot one melee doesn’t break anything. It compleatly ruins CQC your being punished for winning mutipul encounters

I understand the OP perfectly. As you do not like the changes being made you wish they would stop adding them to more playlists. However this is just your opinion, many people have been asking for these changes and want them to be implemented and 343 is obeying their requests.

You say that you shouldn’t make major changes to a polished work but if it makes it better then why wouldn’t you? All of the changes (bar the healthpack glitch) have a positive effect on gameplay and make reach a much more enjoyable experience.

I don’t see how making weapons eaiser to spam with, Nerfing Armor lock ( mostly in btb where it worked as intended ) and creating a fail bleedthrough mechanic is “improving” anything

I realize this is the Reach forum, but it seems that the community at large has forgotten something.

Halo 4 is on its way. I’m not the first to admit that the Reach TU wasn’t everything I was hoping for. But honestly, would you rather they spend all their time improving/fixing a game that has already been out for over a year? Or would you rather they focus their efforts on building a new game, from the ground up, learning from past mistakes?

Personally, I’d be fine if they discontinued all updates, support, and maintenance for Reach tomorrow, if it meant that 343i delivered a fantastic, 10/10 Halo 4 experience.

I’d rather have a 10/10 experience with Halo 4 and the current (5/10) experience with Reach, as opposed to an 8/10 experience with Halo 4 and a (possible) 6/10 experience with Reach.

As for the OP, well said. I agree fully with your sentiment, so there’s no sense in repeating it. But for future reference, people will probably take you more seriously if you check your spelling before you post.

Easier to spam with? I assume you are talking about the DMR. Spamming has indeed been improved by reducing to 85%. However pacing has been dramatically improved, far more so than spamming. The closer “pacing” gets to the maximum rate of fire, the less effective spamming will become and the game will be far more consistent.

Nerfing Armor Lock is fantastic. At the moment it is used to delay death. Very rarely do people use it to deflect explosives or vehicles like it was originally intended. These changes do not stop it from stopping a vehicle trying to splatter you but you can no longer use it as a “Press RB/X to live”.

Bleedthrough is necessary to combat the derp-rush. To many people realised they would lose a fight and just used the sprint double-melee tactic. Bleedthrough counters this perfectly and i think a change to make melee do 90% damage would fix all problems with bleedthrough.

Please explain how this is NOT improving gameplay.

OK dmr fair enough ( I think vehical health needs a buff as a counter to strong dmr in BTB)

Killing armor lock may be well and good for CQC but it has more purposes.
your kind of chopping down the tree to save the kitten and killing the kitten in the process

As for bleed through and the double melle durp rush why not just fix double melee and get rid of Bleed

> OK dmr fair enough ( I think vehical health needs a buff as a counter to strong dmr in BTB)
>
>
> Killing armor lock may be well and good for CQC but it has more purposes.
> your kind of chopping down the tree to save the kitten and killing the kitten in the process
>
> As for bleed through and the double melle durp rush why not just fix double melee and get rid of Bleed

100% agree on vehicle buff. although it was hard to miss a vehicle even at full bloom.

I can’t think of any other purposes for armor lock other than in CQC, repelling explosives and completely slowing down gameplay. The TU fixes the one which is broken.

No-bleedthrough means even if i have shot you three times with the DMR, after we both melee each other, suddenly we are level. That is not right. This is an FPS not first person boxing. I don’t see a way to fix that without making melees bleedthrough and still have them relevant.

> I don’t see how making weapons eaiser to spam with, Nerfing Armor lock ( mostly in btb where it worked as intended ) and creating a fail bleedthrough mechanic is “improving” anything

The NR is the easiest precision weapon to spam in the whole game, and even easier to spam is the CE pistol. But they worked CORRECTLY just like the DMR does on 85%. What 85% does is make it so that the speed advantage of spamming does not defeat the accuracy advantage of pacing. On default it was 8 shots spammed vs 5 shots paced. Now it’s 5-6 shots spammed vs 5 shots paced. Now the 50% chance you have of hitting that 1 extra shot is not worth it AT ALL. There is NO REASON to spam anymore as you’re ONLY LIMITING YOURSELF. On 100% whether you were gaining an advantage or limiting yourself is STILL highly debated because the line between the two is so close. 85% makes pacing the clear winner to anyone who has any idea what they’re talking about.

BTB is the ONLY place where AL functioned as Bungie said they desired it to. And it’s not even much different now. It just isn’t as lame anymore.

Fail Bleedthrough eh? Explain to me how it is any different than CE, H2 or H3’s bleed through.

Also, I don’t know when the last time you looked but Reach is now #7 on the most played XBL games. MW3 put in WAY MORE UU’s from in it’s first 1.5 months than Reach did in all of 2011. Up until Reach a Halo game has never been anything than #1, ever. Not to say that it is solely Reach’s game mechanics that caused this, but they do play a decent role in it. Reach is not doing well in the numbers, so regardless of what YOU think, 343 is trying to bring back the thousands upon thousands of players who left because it moved to far away from the successful Halo formula.

Also, “Not change a polished product”? If you knew anything about gaming you would know that literally every major title gets a game balancing patch early in it’s life span. Halo 2, Halo 3, MW2, Black Ops, MW3, and I’m sure someone who plays more than CoD and Halo could give you dozens more. NO GAME IS PERFECT OUT OF THE BOX. Dev’s have the same mindset when creating a game, there’s only a few hundred people to test the game. When you release it to the public you have MILLIONS of people who can find glitches, exploits, and whatever else that the studio could NEVER have perceived during the creation of the game.

And even on the chance that Bungie pooped out exactly what they wanted their crap to look like, VERY LITTLE of the population felt that it played well. Sure it’s better than most games, but this is HALO WE’RE TALKING ABOUT. Halo became so big BECAUSE IT HAD SUCH AN AMAZING FORMULA. You don’t mess with what isn’t broken. Take CoD for example. They have pooped out a rehash of the same game every single year, and what happens? They break records WITH EVERY RELEASE. Now this isn’t solely contributed to the lack of change in gameplay, but you can’t tell me that that has nothing to do with it. Halo did it right, Halo essentially CREATED xbox live and MLG with it’s formula. If it weren’t for Halo, I’m sure xbox would be in a very different place right now, not to mention MLG might not even exist.

And then you go and say that they should leave Reach alone, and just work on Halo 4? Do you know how many thousands of players wouldn’t still be playing this game if it weren’t for this TU? I know myself, the majority of my friends, and the majority of the skilled players this forum would have left in 2011 if it weren’t for this TU. If anything it brought a lot of us back. I’m sorry that you FINALLY found a Halo that you were good at, but there were MILLIONS OF PEOPLE who LOVED the previous Halo’s for what they had. The people who didn’t love Halo until Reach are the VAST MINORITY. Even many of my casual friends, who know very little about any video game think Reach is stupid. Out of the at least 50 avid gamers I know in Real life, NONE OF THEM play Reach. Not to mention my entire friends list, who I met solely through Halo 3, only ONE OF THEM still play Reach. 100 people who I met through halo 3, and ONE OF THEM PLAYS REACH. Does that really not tell you something?

And then you add that it’s because that’s what the “fans” want? How do YOU know what the fans want. According to the numbers, Reach definitely wasn’t it. and according to how 75% of the threads on this forum talking about the quality of Reach are bashing it, also shows that you have no idea what the fans want. You just know what you want, and I don’t even think you would want that if you were good at Halo or knew what you’re talking about. Out of the hundreds of “good players” who I’ve seen post on the forums, am friends with, or have conversed with online I HAVE ONLY FOUND 1 OF THEM WHO THOUGHT REACH WAS BETTER THAN PREVIOUS HALO’S. And from his recent posts, it seems he actually doesn’t even think that anymore. So that’s 1 out of at least 500 (probably closer to 1000 though). 0.2% to 0.01% of the skilled Halo players that I have met who think that Reach, at minimum, didn’t need some serious tweaking. Not to say that there aren’t plenty of mid tier or low tier players who enjoy Reach, but it’s not like a unanimous vote or anything. There’s like 5 mid tier players on here who advocate that Reach is a good game and shouldn’t be changed. All th ose Reach lovers, who were actually just Bungie fan boys, are still circle jerking back over on Bnet, so they got weeded out of the equation when the move to 343 came. Although, there’s also hundreds of good players, in fact the BEST players, who are all still over at bnet because they love to cuss and troll too much for the mods to handle. And even then, the dislike from vanilla Reach on these forums vastly exceeds the love for it.

/Rant

]If you don’t read this whole thing, it is proof that you’re just hear to [female dog] and moan and that you actually aren’t even open to seeing things in a different way. In which case I would politely like to tell you to get the [another word for -Yoink!-] off the forums and go cry to your mom. If you do read it, then please disregard anything said in this paragraph :P.

> So in the end im not attacking what they changed but the fact that they changed it.
> You wouldn’t take halo 2 and attempt to make it halo Reach. Stop taking halo reach and trying to conform it to Halo 2 / wut you want future halo’s to be. Let it along and focus on your new game.

That’s because Halo 2 was perfect, and Reach is not. /thread

> That’s because Halo 2 was perfect, and Reach is not. /thread

Well that is YOUR opinion my friend and not every person who has ever played that game ever.If it was perfect there would have been no need to change anything when they made Halo 3. Besides no game is EVER entirely perfect.

You have to think about what 343 is trying to do. The game is good but it does not stack up well against its competition right now. Its popularity is low and I’m not trying to compare it to other Halo games when I say that. Halo is getting its butt kicked and needs something to draw a crowd again. Which is ironic because thats how we got here in the first place.

85% bloom is one of the best things ever happened to Reach (except for zero bloom of course).
Now pacing rewards way more than spamming at full speed. I can consistently win my DMR battles now and the pace of the game is way faster. Furthermore, if someone sprints away from the fight you can spam at their backs much more effectively and thus stop them to run away when outplayed. It also makes it possible for you to outplay more enemies in a short period of time as bloom resets faster.

Armor Lock is much better with this nerf. Having the possibility to kick someone out of it makes the AL user much more parsimonious about its usage, thus increasing the pace of the game and decreasing the annoyances to those who have to wait.

Bleed through is better than the default melee system in Reach. They just have to fix the healthpack glitch.

> You dont like the TU don’t play it. You still have plenty of playlists (Team slayer,Squad DLC,Invasion,Rumble pit etc)that have not been updated.

And that’s fair?

What if I want to play some Vanilla BTB? Do I have to go into Custom Games now, because I’ve been forced out of hoppers I enjoy by changes I don’t?

Take a look at THIS game I played with friends yesterday. All except two of our team went negative, and we destroyed the opposition. I hasten to add, by the way: both teams were made up of players of roughly average skill.

And yet, we DOUBLED the enemy score. One player even got an Inconceivable and a Perfection - WITH A DMR. Clearly, my team and I know how to shoot.

Assuming my team therefore knows what it’s doing, why do games like THIS then happen?

When people say ‘the new DMR mechanics improve the skill gap’, what they really mean is ‘omfg lol now I can destroy with the DMR from a longer range without spam penalites’. The DMR takes no skill now - even the worst player in my play group can reliably get kills with it now. Conversely, this also means it’s far too easy to be destroyed with it.

Games like the Utopie Neutral Assault game I posted should not be happening. It’s a combination of poor map design, coupled with the new game mechanics making it far too easy for even the most remotely-skilled player to sit back and pop a clip into somebody before they even have a chance to react. Lather, rinse, repeat, jerk off over it later.

And this is meant to be ‘fun’?

> > You dont like the TU don’t play it. You still have plenty of playlists (Team slayer,Squad DLC,Invasion,Rumble pit etc)that have not been updated.
>
> And that’s fair?

Yes it is. Suck it up kid. We were forced to play on default settings that we didn’t like for over a year, now it’s your turn (luckily for you there are still plenty playlists with default settings. We weren’t so lucky for the past year).

Before the update the game was okay.

After the update the game is good.

They woudn’t of changed these things if they were not bad in the first place.

> > > You dont like the TU don’t play it. You still have plenty of playlists (Team slayer,Squad DLC,Invasion,Rumble pit etc)that have not been updated.
> >
> > And that’s fair?
>
> Yes it is. Suck it up kid. We were forced to play on default settings that we didn’t like for over a year, now it’s your turn (luckily for you there are still plenty playlists with default settings. We weren’t so lucky for the past year).

Yup you pretty much nailed it on the head with that one.

If you don’t like it, deal with it because we had to.