Welcome back to the Official Splitscreen Thread v3.0!
Last time, things got heated. A bit too heated for our liking, with a bit of derailment. But that won’t happen again, right?
Let’s lay out the rules here:
Do not spam or bump! This thread will likely be popular enough with how much support splitscreen has (you’ve seen the Elite thread, right?!). There will be no need to bump it. There’s a lot to talk about.
<mark>NO PETITIONS.</mark>
Do not attack other members. This means no people attacking others for wanting splitscreen, and no people that want splitscreen attacking the ones that don’t want it/don’t care. Let’s keep this a friendly environment.
ALL forum rules apply.
This is an important issue to many.
<mark>If it gets de-railed again, or gets too heated, it will once again get locked, so keep it clean!</mark>
Welcome to the Official Splitscreen Thread.
(Please make yourself at home.)We’ve all heard the news: Halo 5 won’t support 4 player split screen, according to multiple tweets from Josh Holmes. We have to take Holmes’ words seriously because he’s the creative director for Halo 5, meaning that he makes those kinds of decisions.As an individual who uses 4 player split screen often, this decision is extremely disappointing; it’s a shame because I loved the beta. The fact is, Halo 5’s lack of splitscreen support discourages me from buying it, and might prevent me from buying it. I certainty won’t pre-order it.Here’s the deal: if 343 wants our support, their going to have to reconsider this decision. Reasons to support splitscreen
343 will get my money - Splitscreen is one of the few advantages that console gaming has over PC gaming - Halo 5 will have a feature that its competition lacks - LAN parties will once again prosper - The social lives of gamers will flourish - Every single Halo FPS has featured 4 player splitscreen - Not including it for performance reasons makes the Xbox One seem like an inferior console - From a logical standpoint, it doesn’t make sense to remove splitscreen on next gen hardware - Splitscreen was one of the major reasons that allowed Halo Combat Evolved to be successful - Halo night will live on - Including split screen due to consumer backlash can help improve 343’s abysmal public relation reputation - The lack of 4 player split screen could be considered a design flaw - A considerable amount of split screen users are willing to sacrifice graphics for performance - Single player graphics won’t be effected by split screen optimizations - Removing it makes the game less flexible - Splitscreen is a great way to advertise the game to friends, making them likely to buy it after playing it on your XboxTodo List for Optimizing Splitscreen
Lock the split screen frame rate at 30 FPS to provide a consistent experience and allow the user’s brain to adapt - Disable anti aliasing, anistereopic filtering, depth of field, FXAA and dynamic lighting on split screen - Reduce/remove particles, mist/smoke effects, decals, and shaders on split screen - * Important: Use reduced-polygon meshes on split screen. Most 3D modeling programs have a plugin that will do this. - Reduce the render distance but don’t go crazy on it. We should be able to spot other players across the map. (Geometry can simplify, but make sure that players are distinguishable.) - Use low-res textures on split screen but make that they aren’t loaded at runtime.Raising Awareness for Splitscreen
The developers at 343 don’t browse these forums on a regular basis, and frankly, I don’t blame them. The problem is, they won’t see this thread. In order to effectively convince 343, we need to use social media to contact them.I’ve created a hashtag on Twitter for our cause: #Halo5SplitScreen. Hash tags are powerful and spread quickly.In order to raise awareness, tweet why you support split screen to @Halo, @JoshingtonState (Josh Holmes), @Brav, etc. Be respectful and polite: you catch more bees with honey. Be sure to provide a link to this thread because it contains valuable information. Also, include the hashtag I mentioned.
Just putting this out there. There won’t be any splitscreen, and I believe people just need to accept it. Plus, they are on the right track with removing splitscreen since the framerate in H2A completely drops when there is too much happening when playing splitscreen.
> 2533274859413227;3:
> Just putting this out there. There won’t be any splitscreen, and I believe people just need to accept it. Plus, they are on the right track with removing splitscreen since the framerate in H2A completely drops when there is too much happening when playing splitscreen.
Not so much that they removed split screen but built Halo 5 in a way that didn’t allow for it.
I believe the cost of visual fidelity, in poly-count, texture quality and general scene culling is not worth the minor increase in performance.
With the engine pushing better graphics than any Halo before it, I can’t see how aggressive optimization would be preferable given how it would negatively impact the esthetics and or general atmosphere of the game.
In regards to the “30fps” requests, 343 have already stated that many features require the 60fps rate to function properly, this would most likely mean bullet collisions or other things that require constant updates in the game’s “step” code(checks for conditions that lead to actions when triggered).
Cutting a renowned and arguably important feature like split-screen can’t have been an easy decision to make, especially after including it in Halo 4.
Well since this is a new thread, I guess I’ll post my thoughts again.
343i built Halo 5 in a way where if the game isn’t running at 60FPS, the game breaks. Now, it’s likely Microsoft is to blame for this, as it’s likely they ordered them to make a game that ran at 60FPS at all times. But whatever the case, whoever is responsible, building the game this way was a bad decision.
However, if Xbox One was able to retroactively implement backwards compatibility, then there might be a way to implement split screen in Halo 5. But I’m not sure how much a post-launch patch could alter or get around the way the game is built from the ground up to implement such a feature.
If it’s not possible to implement post-launch, accept it and move on. BUT encourage 343i or Microsoft, or whoever to make sure the next game is built to accommodate split screen.
And of course, do all of this without throwing insults all over the place, declaring Halo to be dead, or calling 343i every name in the book.
As I’ve said in the last iteration of this banter, I truly do not believe that Halo 5 was “designed around” 60 fps, and having the game run lower “compromised” the “underlying simulation.” It is very bad programming practice tonassunr thay a game will run at a specified framerate and that’s why there aren’t any game engines that are dependant on the framerate. I think that Microsoft required the game to run at 1080p and 60 fps 100% of the time, and wouldn’t allow for splitscreen to drop down. It’s not in 343’s best interest to call out their publisher and parent company like that, so it made more sense for them to have an excuse that the majority of fans would believe.
Now, I will happily sacrifice visuals and the “underlying simulation” for splitscreen. When I use splitscreen, I’m using it for a social event. It’s about being with my friends, not playing quality Halo. I don’t think that 343 is considering this perspective.
split screen and co-operative gameplay is what made halo the game of its time (now sadly passed).
friends in the same room, playing together, killing each other. The new console generations are killing in-person social gaming. It truly is a shame.
Or we just wait time will pass and everyone will probably forget about splitscreen. As soon as Call of Duty drops the 360 and PS3 I doubt we will any longer see splitscreen multiplayer. Even Battlefront only supports splitscreen for special co-op missions that can be played local only and not online with others. It is time to face facts for the majority of games splitscreen is dying and before you know it poof it will be gone forever from consoles.
> 2533274829339976;7:
> As I’ve said in the last iteration of this banter, I truly do not believe that Halo 5 was “designed around” 60 fps, and having the game run lower “compromised” the “underlying simulation.” It is very bad programming practice tonassunr thay a game will run at a specified framerate and that’s why there aren’t any game engines that are dependant on the framerate. I think that Microsoft required the game to run at 1080p and 60 fps 100% of the time, and wouldn’t allow for splitscreen to drop down. It’s not in 343’s best interest to call out their publisher and parent company like that, so it made more sense for them to have an excuse that the majority of fans would believe.
>
> Now, I will happily sacrifice visuals and the “underlying simulation” for splitscreen. When I use splitscreen, I’m using it for a social event. It’s about being with my friends, not playing quality Halo. I don’t think that 343 is considering this perspective.
Do you have any evidence to your claims that they’re lying?
> 2533274810001991;5:
> I believe the cost of visual fidelity, in poly-count, texture quality and general scene culling is not worth the minor increase in performance.
>
> With the engine pushing better graphics than any Halo before it, I can’t see how aggressive optimization would be preferable given how it would negatively impact the esthetics and or general atmosphere of the game.
>
> In regards to the “30fps” requests, 343 have already stated that many features require the 60fps rate to function properly, this would most likely mean bullet collisions or other things that require constant updates in the game’s “step” code(checks for conditions that lead to actions when triggered).
>
> Cutting a renowned and arguably important feature like split-screen can’t have been an easy decision to make, especially after including it in Halo 4.
That is such bull plop. If games relied on frame rate for in game physics pc games would be screwed. Yet some how this xbox one this next-generation hardware which is closer to a pc than we ever have been cannot deal with emulating a second screen oh the horror!
> 2533274950614657;10:
> > 2533274829339976;7:
> > As I’ve said in the last iteration of this banter, I truly do not believe that Halo 5 was “designed around” 60 fps, and having the game run lower “compromised” the “underlying simulation.” It is very bad programming practice tonassunr thay a game will run at a specified framerate and that’s why there aren’t any game engines that are dependant on the framerate. I think that Microsoft required the game to run at 1080p and 60 fps 100% of the time, and wouldn’t allow for splitscreen to drop down. It’s not in 343’s best interest to call out their publisher and parent company like that, so it made more sense for them to have an excuse that the majority of fans would believe.
> >
> > Now, I will happily sacrifice visuals and the “underlying simulation” for splitscreen. When I use splitscreen, I’m using it for a social event. It’s about being with my friends, not playing quality Halo. I don’t think that 343 is considering this perspective.
>
>
> Do you have any evidence to your claims that they’re lying?
It is an educated guess, and I so have evidence. Most game engines work the same. Each frame that’s rendered is called a render pass. Nkw, at the end of this render pass, the state of the game is updated and the frame is displayed on the screen. Now, the concern that people have is that the game will “fall behind” if it isn’t updating fast enough. This isn’t true, according to the standard game engines design. The render loop, (where our render passes occur) is separate from the game’s state. They both generally run in different threads, and aren’t dependant on each other’s speed. So, when the render pass comes to a close, the game updates itself with whatever is going on in the different thread, and doesn’t fall behind because this different thread isn’t slowed down by rendering.
Now, my educated guess is that Halo 5’s engine works in the most efficient manner, and is a “modern” engine. That is the design that I just described. I’d like to hope that the programmers who created Halo 5’s engine were smart enough to make it like how everyone else does, in a way that works. I could be wrong, but programmers are copycats, and then odds are, a programmer is gonna mimick code that works, rather than spend time making something new. Especially when the programmer has a strict deadline that is completely inflexible.
Additionally, Microsoft HAS to push 60 fps for their console, which had a pretty sinister reputation of being underpowered. (When it really isn’t.) Halo is a console seller, and in order to make the skeptical consumer buy a console, if would make sense to have the console’s seller game run as fast and “next-genny” as possible.
How is this still ongoing?
I honestly doubt this much people still use spiltscreen regularly enough to be impacted by this decision.
In my honest opinion splitscreen never worked well anyway. Even on larger TV’s you could barely even see anything through 1/2 or 1/4 of the screen. On birthday parties where we’d sometimes have a lobby with 4 people I always went home with a headache and tired eyes.
And to the people who’d want splitscreen even with the fps drop I’d second geuss that. To me going from 60fps to 30fps is just painful.
Note: This is just all assumptions and may or may not be true.
Split-screen won’t really work for Halo 5 as it will run at 60fps, if there is is split-screen support, they would have to lower the graphics and also the fps to 30. This would be a disadvantage to the split-screeners as lets say there is a person on the other team who is playing the game at 60 fps whereas the split screen people would only be at 30 fps, alot of things could happen, such as weapons may be tuned for optimal performance at 60fps, IE: split-screen bullets may not hit the targets etc etc.
> 2533274870489921;13:
> How is this still ongoing?
> I honestly doubt this much people still use spiltscreen regularly enough to be impacted by this decision.
>
> In my honest opinion splitscreen never worked well anyway. Even on larger TV’s you could barely even see anything through 1/2 or 1/4 of the screen. On birthday parties where we’d sometimes have a lobby with 4 people I always went home with a headache and tired eyes.
>
> And to the people who’d want splitscreen even with the fps drop I’d second geuss that. To me going from 60fps to 30fps is just painful.
How many people in MCC you saw playing with guests, few months ago (when game became playable)? 10%? Even though on Xbox One everyone can use it’s own profile on single Gold subscription per console, there plenty of people playing as guests. Right now you don’t know how many people are playing split screen. I can assure that many people are using split screen because in term of people’s relations, nothing have changed in last 30-20 years: people still have siblings and wives and kids and parents.
Those who were kids when Halo 1 and teens when Halo 3 came out, are now 20-something, mostly singles and they’re most vocal fanbase. However there are still new kids being born out there each year and soon even those 20-something singles will become 30-something husbands and fathers.
I’m sure 343i have it’s data that makes them neglect working on split screen feature (since Halo 4), but they’re in invalid cycle: they’re making split screen unplayble, so less people is using it, so they’re neglecting it even more etc. Developers who are making more successful multiplayer games have more solid data and guess what? Split screen is coming back to next gen! Black Ops 3 will be playable with 4 players, Battlefront will have 2 player split screen mode (first time since 2004 DICE is working on splitscreen!), Gearbox have added 4 player split screen to PS4/XO versions of Borderlands 2 and Pre-Sequel, and Mojang made function 4-player split screen for console version of Minecraft.
Also the most popular game on XBL is FIFA - that for some time was the only AAA next gen game, that allowed 4 players to play on single couch. Football suddenly became so popular or what?
I can tell you that for me lack of split screen is game-killer, and I’m not alone.
> 2533274870489921;13:
> How is this still ongoing?
> I honestly doubt this much people still use spiltscreen regularly enough to be impacted by this decision.
>
> In my honest opinion splitscreen never worked well anyway. Even on larger TV’s you could barely even see anything through 1/2 or 1/4 of the screen. On birthday parties where we’d sometimes have a lobby with 4 people I always went home with a headache and tired eyes.
>
> And to the people who’d want splitscreen even with the fps drop I’d second geuss that. To me going from 60fps to 30fps is just painful.
You doubt, but you really have no idea. My personal circle used it as did many others I know online. If no one cared, then most of us wouldn’t be complaining. That said, it doesn’t mean that everyone out there gives a -Yoink-, but it gets old to see folks trying to downplay it and act like they know who uses split-screen. The majority of my steam games are split-screen or offer couch co-op. I have friends and family that I like to game with. I ordered an xb1 and it is arriving today, but it may very well be going back because of this as silly as that may sound. Some issues matter more to others despite your apathy towards the matter.
> 2533274870489921;13:
> How is this still ongoing?
> I honestly doubt this much people still use spiltscreen regularly enough to be impacted by this decision.
>
> In my honest opinion splitscreen never worked well anyway. Even on larger TV’s you could barely even see anything through 1/2 or 1/4 of the screen. On birthday parties where we’d sometimes have a lobby with 4 people I always went home with a headache and tired eyes.
>
> And to the people who’d want splitscreen even with the fps drop I’d second geuss that. To me going from 60fps to 30fps is just painful.
Frankie said on NeoGaf that "the number of people who utilize split screen is not insignificant" aka, this was not a decision we wanted to make, but we had to.
Split screen worked well enough in all the halo games other than Halo 4, 4 player. But 2 player was still fine.
We were fine with 30fps games for years…
Honestly there is no excuse for this, It wont effect me personally as I have not played on split screen since probably 2005 or 2006, but it’s been a staple of the franchise for so long. When you take features away from people, it sucks and they have a right to -Yoink- about it.
I have said this elsewhere too but it holds true still: 343 is a big game company that works for the largest software developer in the world (microsoft makes more per year on software sales than the 2nd and 3rd largest companies combined, with billions to spare). This is an issue that they should be able to overcome and MAKE IT WORK.
It’s a bummer, a disappointment… BUT it’s not the end of the world or even this franchise. Halo 5 campaign’s looks like it’s going to be the best campaign ever in any Halo game. Warzone looks like an amazing gametype that will be a lot of fun and we already sort of know that matchmaking will have undergone huge improvements and will be mainly focused on the competitive crowd.
So sure, I’m not really happy it’s been removed from the game, but I am still very much excited to get my hand on the thing that will be great.
I think I should re-post these points here as well. There are some myths that still seems to be strong amonst those, who don’t want split screen:
Split screen will negatively affect my full screen game - no. Split screen isn’t affecting full screen render nor can negatively affect any part of your precious full screen game. Otherwise it would be impossible to add this feature to finished and released games by update, and such cases happened (and it can happen too in case of Halo 5!). Was 4-players Gears of War 3 lesser or uglier than 2-players Gears of War 2? Was 2-player Killzone 3 lesser or uglier that 1-player Killzone 2? No, because rendering of another scene isn’t affecting other parts of the game, nor it affects render of full screen.
Online killed split screen, we’re not kids anymore! - you’re not kid anymore. People are still breeding and there are plenty of new kids around. There are also people older that you, who are starting their own family and they’re not stopping playing games because of wife and kids - they’re playing games with them! It’ll happen to you too, eventually.
Also online isn’t some contradictory thing to local. People who are playing on split screen wants to play online as well.
If split screen was really so popular, 343i would have added it. They have their stats - guess what: there are more successful developers, who are making more popular games and they have even more complex stats. There’s a reason why Black Ops 3 will have 4-player split screen, just like why DICE annouced split screen coop as Battlefront’s highlight. There’s a reason why Gearbox added 4-player split screen to PS4/XO version of Borderlands 2, or why Mojang added 4-player split screen to console versions of Minecraft. It’s just 343i who have delayed priorities.
It’s impossible to add split screen to Halo 5, as it would make Xbox explode! - developers said so and they know better - developers just dropped feature that many were waiting for and people are angry. What else do you expect them to say? “We’re lazy?” “We don’t want people with families to play our game”? “Buy Black Ops 3 instead of Halo 5”? No. They’ll say exactly that: “We’re sorry, we really tried, but it’s not possible”. That’s standard answer anyone would give you if he had other things to do, that in his opinion, are more important.
Just like impossible was to remove DRM or Kinect from Xbox One, as Microsoft spent 2 years designing it’s system around these features.
As said in my previous post splitscreen is a dying breed we are going to have to get used to living without it. No one is supporting it properly and the games that do are shoehorning it in for the sake of it and not including it for all modes of play.