Observation Of Fast Movement + Sprint

This is an observation I made while extensively testing certain gametype settings during custom game nights.

When the base movement and jump settings are increased to 110, damage increased to 110, zero bloom, melee decreased to 75 and the AA off spawn is Sprint, players are less inclined to actually use Sprint since they can traverse the map significantly faster/better due to the increased movement traits. Since walking around faster with the gun at the ready and kill times quicker than normal, sprint is really only used during down times to engage in combat quicker.

The kill time with ZB is significantly faster and more reliant on individual skill when compared to default Reach. Coupled with the faster movement and jump, strafing as well as bunny hopping play a much more significant part during encounters. In every instance that sprint is used to run away, since the activation time is the same, it is easier to prevent a user from running away from battle. Since ZB allows for absolute precision and the increased damage takes less bullets to kill to the body, these elements punish the defensive use of Sprint to escape from battle.

One problem plaguing Reach is the herp a derp. For those of you who don’t know, the term comes from the act of running into an enemy with Sprint and using the shield system to your advantage by recklessly going in for a melee and killing your enemy despite any bullets you ate in the mean time as long as you still had shields. The lowered melee damage ensures that the only way you can effectively kill an enemy is if they have at least one shot to their shields before you melee otherwise you must attack them when they are completely unwary of your presence at which point an assassination may be the best approach. The weaker melee completely discourages herp a derp and coupled with the faster kill time, punishes any reckless use of Sprint with death.

Due to all these factors, players subconsciously prefer to move around the map with their gun at the ready to be able to engage in the quickly decided engagement. Sprint is really only used on larger maps when looking for enemies or trying to get to a location quickly but there is much more risk than usual due to the time it taking to get out of Sprint already putting the player down 2-3 shots in the event they get shot at. This makes Sprint only really used when it is absolutely safe and, whenever used in a defensive manner, can be punished thanks to the increased damage to the body as well as being able to chase a Sprinter better while walking. Sprint therefor is really only used offensively but can be quickly punished if used improperly allowing for more frequent engagements and an inherit skill gap to using the AA.

What does all this have to do with Halo 4? Well, Halo 4 looks like it will have Sprint by default but also has significantly faster movement and higher jump than default Reach. What can be concluded is that the psychological effect outlined in the rest of the post will transfer over resulting in an increased skill gap with faster paced, more balanced, and more exciting gameplay.

TL;DR
Faster movement + higher jump + weaker melee + increased damage + zero bloom + Sprint = gameplay that is fast enough to the point where players tend not to use Sprint due to the risk of not being able to shoot while moving. Herp a derp is punished with the weaker melee which only requires 1 shot for the melee to kill in 2 hits and the increased damage allows you to kill a player running away with one less bullet to the body. This makes it so Sprint is only used during down time in order to find the enemy faster or traverse a large area quickly. Sprint is mostly used offensively and cannot be abused nor improperly used b/c it will be punished due to the fast kill times.

Hope so :slight_smile:

excellent research sir…while i was greatly disappointed by reach, i am not going to judge halo 4 before i play it

your findings just go to show that there are many ways to have new features AND balanced gameplay, and i have full faith that 343 know that too

Completely agree…

Finally, something really worth reading in the halo 4 section…

While I object to the term “cowardly” being used to describe escaping using sprint (“smart” comes to mind), I agree.

Faster kill times, faster movement = better halo in my book

I agree! Sprint should not be used to aid in combat it should be used for engagement. It really helps especially when you spawn in the wrong side of the map. Think Halo 3 BTB Sandtrap. Halo 3 is a faced paced shooter compared to Reach. With sprint, gone are the days of long traveling from the edge of the map to the firefight.

> Finally, something really worth reading in the halo 4 section…
>
> While I object to the term “cowardly” being used to describe escaping using sprint (“smart” comes to mind), I agree.
>
> Faster kill times, faster movement = better halo in my book

Yeah… I was trying to avoid using that term but I believed it really got the point across that I was trying to make.

glad to see someones actually put thought into a post on the halo 4 forum,
i must test these settings you have described,

though i must say i also disagree with the term cowardly, if someone sprints away from me i dont think “ohhh what a coward” i think to myself “damn if only i did a better job”
a coward is someone who fights loses shields then armor locks :wink:

Im glad that there are other people actually trying to come up with solutions to peoples complaints, and actually coming up with good ones. I hope they (the haters) listen to you and at least try it.

The only setting I’m (mildly) concerned about is the increased damage combined with ZB. I haven’t figured out how to set up a ZB game type (do i have to download the ZB slayer variant?) to test on, so I cannot be sure, but perhaps either zero bloom OR the damage boost, and not both, would be sufficient. The double-derp, now a triple-derp, is already nerfed severely without breaking the melee mechanic too badly. I think if a player decides it is wise to retreat, they should be able to do so. if you have ZB, you should not miss, so the damage increase i think is not completely necessary and the killtimes are reduced due to less missed shots.

Im not sure exactly how big a difference the 10% actually makes so i could be wrong. Does it turn the DMR to a 4 shot kill from a 5?

Id have to play it to be sure, but like i said i haven’t figured out how to do ZB

maybe we we should get him to host a custom lobby with the game type and try it out i duno where you guys are from but im an aussie so i may lag but would still be willing to

> This is an observation I made while extensively testing certain gametype settings during custom game nights.
>
> When the base movement and jump settings are increased to 110, damage increased to 110, zero bloom, melee decreased to 75 and the AA off spawn is Sprint, players are less inclined to actually use Sprint since they can traverse the map significantly faster/better due to the increased movement traits. Since walking around faster with the gun at the ready and kill times quicker than normal, sprint is really only used during down times to engage in combat quicker.
>
> The kill time with ZB is significantly faster and more reliant on individual skill when compared to default Reach. Coupled with the faster movement and jump, strafing as well as bunny hopping play a much more significant part during encounters. In every instance that sprint is used to run away, since the activation time is the same, it is easier to prevent a user from running away from battle. Since ZB allows for absolute precision and the increased damage takes less bullets to kill to the body, these elements punish the defensive use of Sprint to escape from battle.
>
> One problem plaguing Reach is the herp a derp. For those of you who don’t know, the term comes from the act of running into an enemy with Sprint and using the shield system to your advantage by recklessly going in for a melee and killing your enemy despite any bullets you ate in the mean time as long as you still had shields. The lowered melee damage ensures that the only way you can effectively kill an enemy is if they have at least one shot to their shields before you melee otherwise you must attack them when they are completely unwary of your presence at which point an assassination may be the best approach. The weaker melee completely discourages herp a derp and coupled with the faster kill time, punishes any reckless use of Sprint with death.
>
> Due to all these factors, players subconsciously prefer to move around the map with their gun at the ready to be able to engage in the quickly decided engagement. Sprint is really only used on larger maps when looking for enemies or trying to get to a location quickly but there is much more risk than usual due to the time it taking to get out of Sprint already putting the player down 2-3 shots in the event they get shot at. This makes Sprint only really used when it is absolutely safe and, whenever used in a defensive manner, can be punished thanks to the increased damage to the body as well as being able to chase a Sprinter better while walking. Sprint therefor is really only used offensively but can be quickly punished if used improperly allowing for more frequent engagements and an inherit skill gap to using the AA.
>
> What does all this have to do with Halo 4? Well, Halo 4 looks like it will have Sprint by default but also has significantly faster movement and higher jump than default Reach. What can be concluded is that the psychological effect outlined in the rest of the post will transfer over resulting in an increased skill gap with faster paced, more balanced, and more exciting gameplay.

Me like what you have said. The chances of getting away are in fact slimmer than default Reach.

Tbh though, a bit iffy on the double pummel solution. I assumed that BR will be 4 shots to kill with that being quicker to drop shields quicker to guard against dp. Idk if bleedthrough returns, but that’d definitely help. Grenade wall bounce will hurt those rushers. I guess you just want dp to be less effective, which I understand.

Question, did you say only when in sprint animation, a shot to the sprinter and pummel will kill him? As long as that doesn’t effect base speed double pummels.

> This is an observation I made while extensively testing certain gametype settings during custom game nights.
>
> When the base movement and jump settings are increased to 110, damage increased to 110, zero bloom, melee decreased to 75 and the AA off spawn is Sprint, players are less inclined to actually use Sprint since they can traverse the map significantly faster/better due to the increased movement traits. Since walking around faster with the gun at the ready and kill times quicker than normal, sprint is really only used during down times to engage in combat quicker.
>
> The kill time with ZB is significantly faster and more reliant on individual skill when compared to default Reach. Coupled with the faster movement and jump, strafing as well as bunny hopping play a much more significant part during encounters. In every instance that sprint is used to run away, since the activation time is the same, it is easier to prevent a user from running away from battle. Since ZB allows for absolute precision and the increased damage takes less bullets to kill to the body, these elements punish the defensive use of Sprint to escape from battle.
>
> One problem plaguing Reach is the herp a derp. For those of you who don’t know, the term comes from the act of running into an enemy with Sprint and using the shield system to your advantage by recklessly going in for a melee and killing your enemy despite any bullets you ate in the mean time as long as you still had shields. The lowered melee damage ensures that the only way you can effectively kill an enemy is if they have at least one shot to their shields before you melee otherwise you must attack them when they are completely unwary of your presence at which point an assassination may be the best approach. The weaker melee completely discourages herp a derp and coupled with the faster kill time, punishes any reckless use of Sprint with death.
>
> Due to all these factors, players subconsciously prefer to move around the map with their gun at the ready to be able to engage in the quickly decided engagement. Sprint is really only used on larger maps when looking for enemies or trying to get to a location quickly but there is much more risk than usual due to the time it taking to get out of Sprint already putting the player down 2-3 shots in the event they get shot at. This makes Sprint only really used when it is absolutely safe and, whenever used in a defensive manner, can be punished thanks to the increased damage to the body as well as being able to chase a Sprinter better while walking. Sprint therefor is really only used offensively but can be quickly punished if used improperly allowing for more frequent engagements and an inherit skill gap to using the AA.
>
> What does all this have to do with Halo 4? Well, Halo 4 looks like it will have Sprint by default but also has significantly faster movement and higher jump than default Reach. What can be concluded is that the psychological effect outlined in the rest of the post will transfer over resulting in an increased skill gap with faster paced, more balanced, and more exciting gameplay.

Good post, but it doesnt fix the problem, it only makes it less of a problem. Still a big problem in my opinion even with the changes.

Dudes and Dudettes, i will always believe halo 4 is going to be epimagical until the day it releases. That is when we will know if it’s IN badass status or a hello kitty status. SPRINT IS NOT ALL THAT BAD, MOST PEOPLE NEED SOMETHING TO WHINE ABOUT.

Good post bro. Totally agree. Thanks.

> Good post, but it doesnt fix the problem, it only makes it less of a problem. Still a big problem in my opinion even with the changes.

This. Not to saying that it isn’t acceptable though. You can’t please everybody, and if you can make a compromise to make everyone decently happy, than that’s better than nothing. Let’s all remember that if anyone is going to get the -Yoink- end of the stick, it’s going to be the competitive players; In which case this is a very good compromise. Although IMO at minimum, being shot while sprinting should reduce how much sprint you have left, similar to how TU AL loses power as you take damage.

Also IMO there should be a power bar in H4 like there is in Reach, regardless of this feature. In games like Halo where sprinting can affect whether you will make a jump or not, you NEED to know how much sprint you have left. With this bar, it would also still also players to use their sprint effectively as they could see whether they have enough sprint after the shots they took to make some jump or just what decision to make in general.

Again, No Sprint > Sprint in all cases, but with a situation like Overkill stated (but with BT instead of 75% melee IMO), and possibly the drain of your sprint ability as you take damage, sprint could play well enough for most of us to be happy with H4.

Hell, if they gave us Reach MLG V7 but with Sprint and beautiful maps we would throw a freaking party.

I read the entirety of your post, nice.

> and possibly the drain of your sprint ability as you take damage, sprint could play well enough for most of us to be happy with H4.

I never thought of that.

I have been playing a lot of Skyward Sword lately and noticed how Sprint recharges pretty slow while you are moving but faster when you stand still. This kind of element would work pretty well in Reach as well.

How do you change bloom to zero in customs?

You cannot -__-

I completely agree in liking faster movement speeds and being able to sprint but think almost everything said in the OP is based in bigotry and not from a gaming-balance perspective.
-thy ReaperMC 3:16

But at least I can say “Sokath, his eyes uncovered!” for the concessions made mentally to allow for the current revelation and view it as a start.

edit

> I completely agree in liking faster movement speeds and being able to sprint but think almost everything said in the OP is based in bigotry and not from a gaming-balance perspective.

Says you…