Objectives in Firefight

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

A brief foreword
Since its introduction in ODST, Firefight has always been something I really enjoyed to play, either alone or together with friends. It got never boring or repetitive, especially with Reach’s local custom Firefight. Its replacement in Halo 4 through SpOps was kind of a disappointment for me. Though I enjoyed watching the fantastic cinematics, the missions gave me not the same fun, challenge or replay value Firefight has done.
I think a game mode like Firefight offers a lot of potential, because you can add and implant objects, mechanics or game play into it, that would not fit into Campaign or Multiplayer.

The actual topic
So, like many others, I would really like and hope to see Firefight return but in an improved, advanced and simply ‘bigger’ version.
But aside the classic survival aspect, I would like to see some and more objective-based aspects in Firefight as well.
I imagined that you could implant main and side objectives into Firefight’s game play, what I mean by that and what exactly I have imagined, I will explain now.

Main Objectives

Main objectives would simply create different and separated game types in Firefight, aside the classic surviving game type.
Instead of just focusing on surviving, you would have to complete a specific objective as well.

Examples for possible main objectives:

Defending
The main goal is to hold and defend specific locations or important devices for a certain amount of time or simply as long as you can. It would play kind of like ‘Rush’ from BF3. So you only defend and have access to a part of the entire map and once you lose all objectives in that part, you have to fall back to the next part of the map until you find yourself in a ‘last stand situation’.
An example how I imagined it could look like in Halo:
You start out on an open battlefield, behind you some ONI or UNSC building, which you cannot enter yet, that keeps an important artefact or top-secret knowledge what has to be protected from the Covenant. Your first objective would be to defend several antiaircrafts or MAC Cannons which the Covenant tries to destroy with planting bombs. Once the Covenant manages it to destroy them, they will be able to send air support and you would have to fall back, perhaps to the atrium of the building and have to defend the gate(s) that are leading inside it, which the Covenant would either try to blow up again or to hack.
Once you lose those objectives as well you would have to fall back to your last defense position, maybe a room with the elevators that lead to the basement. Now your Spartans would be the last barrier that stands between the Covenants and the artefact.
Of course the longer you manage to defend certain objectives, the stronger will get the forces that the Covenant sends.

Search and Rescue
The main goal is to search, find, protect and rescue a group or groups of civilians. The groups would always spawn in random locations of the map, so you would always have to search them. After you find and collected the civilians, you have to get them to one of maybe 3 evacuation points of which you would have to choose one (by marking it locally) and have to hold out there until the Pelicans arrive to pick you and the civilians up. Every evacuation point would have different advantages and weak spots.
In addition, I think a part of a city would be perfect as a map for a game type like this and I could imagine instead of the Covenant, the Flood could be a nice enemy in that game type as well.

Side Objectives

Side objectives could be implanted in nearly every game type in Firefight, be it only survival or objective based. Completing them would be optional but they would reward you with several goodies that help you out and make things a little easier.

Examples for possible side objectives:

The key card
A key card would give you access to a small armory, garage or hangar but the card has to be searched first. You should look out for corpses.

Requesting Ordnance
I think in some game types you should be able to request supplies after a certain amount of time. The supplies could be delivered by a Pelican, so you would have to clean a certain LZ and make sure there are no enemy vehicles around that could mean trouble for the Pelican (Wraith, Banshees, Phantoms, etc). If you clean and defend the LZ successfully, you get rewarded with the supplies, otherwise you risk that the Pelican gets shot down and to waste your requested ordnance because of that.

In addition as a side question: what do you think about destructible environment in Firefight?
I would really like to see that, simply because of the ‘intensity’ it would add.

Now what do you think about that? Feel free to comment, suggest or add.

2

i really like the search and Rescue Idea, it cold make people feel more like a UNSC soldier.

i’m thinking of a map similar to an exit of a subway terminal opening into a city. Civilians spawn in the terminal and you lead them to extraction zones for pelican pickup. You could gain points for saving civilians, as opposed to killing enemies, and having civilians get killed makes you lose points. You wold spawn at a small UNSC outpost not too far away from the terminal, where two Machine Gun Warthogs and power weapons spawn. The outpost would be guarded by auto-turrets to prevent the AI from spawn-trapping players.

the terminal will consist of three levels: the Train Stop, the Lobby, and the exit.

the train stop would have subway trains come every now and then, delivering Civilians and a small handful of Marines to help defend them, and they would move upstairs to the lobby, and eventually out the exit.

the lobby would be a large room with ticket booths and a few UNSC equipment the Marines have set up earlier. it would have three areas branching off of it, two leading into windowed areas that act like makeshift bunkers. Marines from time to time will spawn in these rooms. The third branch goes up a staircase leading to the exit, where a few Marines will sit behind sandbags defending the exit.

just an idea :stuck_out_tongue:

and i strongly feel that this gametype would work well if you cool Order Marine Reinforcements or vehicles using the points you earn.

3

I like all these Ideas. If this was all combined into one game, I would die of joy!

4

Personally I think they should bring back firefight and SPOPS. I really like the search and rescue aspect and could really add to FF.

5

TBH, that would be really cool. Like everyone above, I too like the idea of “Search and Rescue”.

6

> i really like the search and Rescue Idea, it cold make people feel more like a UNSC soldier.
>
> i’m thinking of a map similar to an exit of a subway terminal opening into a city. Civilians spawn in the terminal and you lead them to extraction zones for pelican pickup. You could gain points for saving civilians, as opposed to killing enemies, and having civilians get killed makes you lose points. You wold spawn at a small UNSC outpost not too far away from the terminal, where two Machine Gun Warthogs and power weapons spawn. The outpost would be guarded by auto-turrets to prevent the AI from spawn-trapping players.
>
> the terminal will consist of three levels: the Train Stop, the Lobby, and the exit.
>
> the train stop would have subway trains come every now and then, delivering Civilians and a small handful of Marines to help defend them, and they would move upstairs to the lobby, and eventually out the exit.
>
> the lobby would be a large room with ticket booths and a few UNSC equipment the Marines have set up earlier. it would have three areas branching off of it, two leading into windowed areas that act like makeshift bunkers. Marines from time to time will spawn in these rooms. The third branch goes up a staircase leading to the exit, where a few Marines will sit behind sandbags defending the exit.
>
> just an idea :stuck_out_tongue:
>
> and i strongly feel that this gametype would work well if you cool Order Marine Reinforcements or vehicles using the points you earn.

I like where your mind is going.
I have always loved subway terminals or train stations as maps in FPSs, so I would definitely love to see one in Halo, especially in something like Firefight.
I had a similar point system in mind for that game type like you as well.
All in all, I like your idea and your map build up but I think you left out the search aspect, since the civilians would be delivered by trains in your idea, so more or less you would only have to guide and protect them from A to B.

I actually imagined it that you are playing in an open sandbox. So the map would be an entire area of a city with different floors and locations (train station, subway, public places, stores, appartments, etc.) and in each location would randomly spawn civilians (and of course enemies) that you have to find and then guide safely to the evacuation zones.

Now that I think about it again, how would it be if the civilians would not only be mindless followers but even show appropriate behavior in specific situations?
For example, they look for cover when under fire, cannot keep up as fast (hobble) when harmed or from time to time there is that one civilian who freaks out and blindly runs away.

7

Objectives in Firefight are an awesome idea. Given that 343 are not likely to bring it back without some sort of progression to the concept, the addition of objectives would be one such advancement that would lend itself well to Firefight.

Defense is a natural fit, and would be reminiscent of the Generator Defense gametype from the Reach beta. As for Search and Rescue, while I’ve never been very fond of escort missions, I’d be up for it if the civilian AI wasn’t grossly incompetent.

We could also have missions in which you would have to take out a high profile target. If Halo 5 includes any sort of boss fights in its campaign, said bosses could be imported into the gametype to function as your mark. Whether or not you chose to act covertly would be up to the players, but I think it would be cool if the option were at least given.

Another thing they could add to Firefight would be some competitive options. The above gametype could easily be a race between two teams, with the winning team being the first to take out the target. Not only that, but I think that pretty much any of the competitive gametypes we know and love could be given a unique twist if set against the backdrop of besieging AI forces (with some obviously working better than others.) Dominion or Extraction versions of Firefight, for example, could potentially be pretty cool.

8

> Objectives in Firefight are an awesome idea. Given that 343 are not likely to bring it back without some sort of progression to the concept, the addition of objectives would be one such advancement that would lend itself well to Firefight.
>
> Defense is a natural fit, and would be reminiscent of the Generator Defense gametype from the Reach beta. As for Search and Rescue, while I’ve never been very fond of escort missions, I’d be up for it if the civilian AI wasn’t grossly incompetent.
>
> We could also have missions in which you would have to take out a high profile target. If Halo 5 includes any sort of boss fights in its campaign, said bosses could be imported into the gametype to function as your mark. Whether or not you chose to act covertly would be up to the players, but I think it would be cool if the option were at least given.
>
> Another thing they could add to Firefight would be some competitive options. The above gametype could easily be a race between two teams, with the winning team being the first to take out the target. Not only that, but I think that pretty much any of the competitive gametypes we know and love could be given a unique twist if set against the backdrop of besieging AI forces (with some obviously working better than others.) Dominion or Extraction versions of Firefight, for example, could potentially be pretty cool.

I am glad you like my idea.

Your additions and ideas sound really great as well, though I have to ask you something about them.

What have you imagined when you suggested high profile targets as an objective?
Were you thinking about some kind of creature (i.e. Promethean ‘Boss’ Knight) or some sort of huge enemy battle machine or ship (i.e. Scarab, Lich or even a Corvette)? I am just curious.
Besides, what do you exactly mean with the player would have the option to act covertly or not?

Some sort of competitive options like you suggested would be just fantastic.

9

> What have you imagined when you suggested high profile targets as an objective?

Something along the lines of the Heretic boss from Halo 2 was what I was picturing, though making the target a heavy vehicle like a Scarab or Lich could prove fairly interesting.

> What do you exactly mean with the player would have the option to act covertly or not?

Well, during an assassination attempt, the assassins typically don’t go in guns blazing. When I said that they would have the option to operate covertly, I was picturing a situation similar to Truth and Reconciliation from Combat Evolved, or Nightfall from Reach.

10

> I like where your mind is going.
> I have always loved subway terminals or train stations as maps in FPSs, so I would definitely love to see one in Halo, especially in something like Firefight.
> I had a similar point system in mind for that game type like you as well.
> All in all, I like your idea and your map build up but I think you left out the search aspect, since the civilians would be delivered by trains in your idea, so more or less you would only have to guide and protect them from A to B.

i only now realized that i forgot to knowledge the “Search” part :smiley:

i really want an “Escort”-esque mission as the one i suggested, moving civilians from A to B

for a “Search & Rescue” type mission i currently have in mind, doesn’t directly involve Civilians, but much rather Marines

the map would be in a City area, with buildings that are lower in heights than others. like my previous idea, the players spawn in an outpost on the ground level with airpads where three Falcons and a Hornet spawn

throughout the mission, random scenarios of Marines getting overrun by Covenant forces, and the players must save as many marines getting overrun as possible. Often times the marines will have retreated to the rooftop, so you have to fly up there, extract them, and bring them back to the outpost for points. Other times, Marines will have civilians with them, and will spawn near the floor level, and you can grab a Troop transport warthog (provided at the outpost) and bring them back to the outpost. like before, having civilians killed makes you lose points, but having marines get killed will not have you lose points. However extracting both to the outpost will gain you points, Civilian or Marine alike

unlike your idea however, the players themselves extract people, rather than an AI controlled pelican doing so, which if the map has enemy aircraft or vehicles around, makes the game more challenging.

that’s the general idea, i can go further if you want :stuck_out_tongue:

> I actually imagined it that you are playing in an open sandbox. So the map would be an entire area of a city with different floors and locations (train station, subway, public places, stores, appartments, etc.) and in each location would randomly spawn civilians (and of course enemies) that you have to find and then guide safely to the evacuation zones.

i’m thinking of a large extension on this idea

when i typed my first idea down, i was thinking of a simple escort mission, moving a mass amount of civilians to a pre-determined point, and making sure as many civilians possible make it to that point.

with the second idea, i was trying to make it more “Extraction”/“search & Rescue”-esque, to go with your OP post

But if we had a huge freaking map that could Incorporate multiple, “spin-off” ideas of the gametype where you Find, protect, and escort Civilians/ Marines to safety into one game, all at once, that would be awesome!

it would be much cooler having to do different tasks in the same game, so you’re not constantly doing the same thing over and over.

now i’m thinking that in a large city, there could be MULTIPLE locations where all of the following different scenarios could occor:

-Covenant presence is detected in some building somewhere, go to that building, and remove the enemy presence to allow Marines to be deployed there and lock it down (Cpature & defend-type game)

-Marines getting overrun trying to combat Covenant/rescue civilians and require extraction (My S&R idea)

-a large group of civilians were moved to a specified location and need extraction (My Escort gametype)

-the Covenant set up a Signal jammer,and some otehr structure, and now you have to go in and disable it (Search and Destroy- type game)

-simply removing Covenant from the streets and skies (extended firefight)

and in custom games options, you should be able to choose which type of “mini=missions” the game would create

the list can go on… and with the Xbox One’s potential, it’s a feasible idea

> Now that I think about it again, how would it be if the civilians would not only be mindless followers but even show appropriate behavior in specific situations?
> For example, they look for cover when under fire, cannot keep up as fast (hobble) when harmed or from time to time there is that one civilian who freaks out and blindly runs away.

Marine AI should be upgraded for combat, making them more tactical and resourcefull. Along with that, Marines should posses the ability to command civilians to do things, such as moving to a nearby cover area, or telling them all to “Get on the ground” if enemy fire comes near them. Marines should also try to take their lives to save and protect multiple civilians

but moving on, Civilian AI should be fearful, they take cover whenever enemies are nearby, they willfully follow Marine orders, they often run the other direction if getting shot at, they group together to stay safe, etc.

as for following, i think Civilians in this instance should be programmed to follow Marines Rather than players, this way, the player is not directly at fault for leading civilians straight into the enemy, as Marines that are charged with protecting Civilians stay away from the enemy and keep the civilians safe, and only move them around if the coast is clear.

just more ideas :stuck_out_tongue:
(and apologies if my post is a little disorganized)

11

>

I simply love your ideas, I would definitely encourage you to go further. :smiley:

I love especially the idea to combine several objectives all into one big Firefight gametype on an huge city themed map.
Maybe at some point there could be several objectives/scenarios appear at once, to increase the difficulty.
Then you would have to descide:
Either you split but probably smaller your chances on success with that or you stay together and focus only on one objective but risk to lose the other one(s).
Finally add at least partly destructable environments to it and I would probably die of joy.

Nonetheless, I have a slight concern about civilians are getting escorted primarily by marines. What happens in case the marines die?
Besides, I think if the civilians are primarily leaded by the marines, you have not the same responsibility over their lifes like when you lead them by yourself. I think putting the player directly at fault for civilian damages and losses is actually a good thing.
Plus what would be more frustrating: When civilians die because the marine AI fails or when you lead them directly in front of a wraith because you have not checked the corner?

In additon, no need to apologize, I think your post was well constructed and I could easily follow your thoughts and ideas. :wink:

12

> I simply love your ideas, I would definitely encourage you to go further. :smiley:

Thanks
:3

> I love especially the idea to combine several objectives all into one big Firefight gametype on an huge city themed map.
> Maybe at some point there could be several objectives/scenarios appear at once, to increase the difficulty.
> Then you would have to descide:
> Either you split but probably smaller your chances on success with that or you stay together and focus only on one objective but risk to lose the other one(s).
> Finally add at least partly destructable environments to it and I would probably die of joy.

a huge open-world gametype is something that would help the Xbox One’s Halo hold its title

with the dedicated servers and better connectivity, the gamemode could potentially allow for up to 8 or more players, and either way, having only 4 players cover an entire city is a little too much.

on destructible environments, how far do you want to go?
collapsing buildings? destroying walls? Knocking down lampposts? too much or too little will either change the game too much too quickly, or will do almost nothing spectacular

> Nonetheless, I have a slight concern about civilians are getting escorted primarily by marines. What happens in case the marines die?
> Besides, I think if the civilians are primarily leaded by the marines, you have not the same responsibility over their lifes like when you lead them by yourself. I think putting the player directly at fault for civilian damages and losses is actually a good thing.
> Plus what would be more frustrating: When civilians die because the marine AI fails or when you lead them directly in front of a wraith because you have not checked the corner?

my logic is that the player will constantly get a lot of heat on themselves, so if the unarmed civilians follow them directly, it will get them killed too fast

i wanted it so the Marines that are protecting civilians follow the player, and the civilians follow the Marines, that way, if the Player leads the marine into a bad area, the Marine could die, but the civilians stay alive (as again, the Marine AI should be programmed to be protective of civilians). so the players actually are leading the civilians, just not directly

I have a figurative novel of ideas about how Marine AI can be improved, some of which include forming squads, and utilising different wepaons in different fashions. (my ideas can be found in this thread)

i expect a gametype where Marines play a big part (such as this) to actually be worthwhile.

If Marine Squads are getting overrun, they will retreat, and likewise, if Marines that are escorting civilians come into a firezone that is too dangerous for the civilians to be defended, the Marines will lead the civilians back to safety

Marines won’t be idiots and lead themselves or Civilians straight into heavy enemy fire
But Marines should still be able to only do so much against Covenant forces. Leaving the Marines alone with civilians will get them killed. you have to both clear the path AND help escort the civilians, which is the challenge i propose.

> In additon, no need to apologize, I think your post was well constructed and I could easily follow your thoughts and ideas. :wink:

thx :smiley:

i have a habit of pressing the Enter key before it is needed, resulting in many, small snippets of text, which can be annoying to follow in large quantities

13

I want to fight flood in an abandoned city at night. Destructible environments.

14

The part about the Pelican dropping off ordinance inspired an idea. You use the points you earn through kills and completing objectives to request Pelican support, in the form of ordinance, vehicle drops, Marine/ODST/Spartan reinforcements and so on. The more effective each drop, the more expensive, obviously, but this way there is a legitimate risk to calling in Pelican support drops, because if it gets shot down, you just flushed loads cash down the toilet.

But here’s the interesting part: in order to successfully evac civilians, you must spend requisition points on a Pelican drop same as you would if you were calling in support, adding an a bonus risk to simply completing the objective.

To counter act enemy air support (which I imagine includes Liches, and Insurrectionist/ONI, Flood and Promethean equivalents) and the risk of them shooting down your own air support, you can spend RP on SAM turrets and other such defenses to improve your odds.

Also, my friend added in an idea just now. The Pelican can die in different ways. If it takes enough damage to crash in, say, a reinforcement drop, then some of the reinforcements could survive. If it gets hit too hard and explodes, you get nothing out of it. This adds to having to analyze the state of the battle and whether or not you can comfortably call in reinforcements. This also means you must have a strong degree of forethought, being able to predict when you’re going to want reinforcements before it becomes too late and you get overrun.

15

> on destructible environments, how far do you want to go?
> collapsing buildings? destroying walls? Knocking down lampposts? too much or too little will either change the game too much too quickly, or will do almost nothing spectacular

Not so far like collapsing entire buildings like BF4 will do.
I was thinking about an amount of destruction roughly similar to BF3, what would mean you could not destroy supporting walls or piers and would not be able to damage certain buildings but still a large amount of stuff would be destructible.
What I also imagined was some sorts of ‘interactive’ destruction.
For example, partly blowing up a bridge or blocking a street with debris so it becomes unusable for ground vehicles.

> my logic is that the player will constantly get a lot of heat on themselves, so if the unarmed civilians follow them directly, it will get them killed too fast
>
> i wanted it so the Marines that are protecting civilians follow the player, and the civilians follow the Marines, that way, if the Player leads the marine into a bad area, the Marine could die, but the civilians stay alive (as again, the Marine AI should be programmed to be protective of civilians). so the players actually are leading the civilians, just not directly
>
> I have a figurative novel of ideas about how Marine AI can be improved, some of which include forming squads, and utilising different wepaons in different fashions. (my ideas can be found in this thread)
>
> i expect a gametype where Marines play a big part (such as this) to actually be worthwhile.
>
> If Marine Squads are getting overrun, they will retreat, and likewise, if Marines that are escorting civilians come into a firezone that is too dangerous for the civilians to be defended, the Marines will lead the civilians back to safety
>
> Marines won’t be idiots and lead themselves or Civilians straight into heavy enemy fire
> But Marines should still be able to only do so much against Covenant forces. Leaving the Marines alone with civilians will get them killed. you have to both clear the path AND help escort the civilians, which is the challenge i propose.

I read through your thread and I hope the AI gets at least halfway as good as you imagine it, no matter if it is friendly or opposing.

In case we get really such an improvement in AI behavior, my concerns about your idea will be vanished.

16

> The part about the Pelican dropping off ordinance inspired an idea. You use the points you earn through kills and completing objectives to request Pelican support, in the form of ordinance, vehicle drops, Marine/ODST/Spartan reinforcements and so on. The more effective each drop, the more expensive, obviously, but this way there is a legitimate risk to calling in Pelican support drops, because if it gets shot down, you just flushed loads cash down the toilet.

Such a point system to call in Pelican support drops could definitely work.

> But here’s the interesting part: in order to successfully evac civilians, you must spend requisition points on a Pelican drop same as you would if you were calling in support, adding an a bonus risk to simply completing the objective.

Well, I don’t know if it is really necessary to spend points for a Pelican that evacuates the civilians.
Personally, I would like it to guide the civilians to one out of several evacuation zones, mark it for the Pelican and then you would have to hold out there until the Pelican arrives and all civilians are onboard.
Nonetheless, there could still be the risk that the Pelican gets shot down. If it happens before an certain amount of civilians are onboard, then you should be able to request an new one but you would have to eliminate a certain amount of danger around the evac zone before they are sending a new one.
Perhaps in case the evac zone is still too hot, they will advise/ask (or even order) you to look for a new one.

> Also, my friend added in an idea just now. The Pelican can die in different ways. If it takes enough damage to crash in, say, a reinforcement drop, then some of the reinforcements could survive. If it gets hit too hard and explodes, you get nothing out of it. This adds to having to analyze the state of the battle and whether or not you can comfortably call in reinforcements. This also means you must have a strong degree of forethought, being able to predict when you’re going to want reinforcements before it becomes too late and you get overrun.

I like this idea that there could be a chance that the Pelican just crashes and at least a part of your request would be ‘safe’, but perhaps damaged in case of a vehicle supply, instead of getting always destroyed entirely.

17

I think objectives in firefight will freshen up the experience, good idea OP.