Not-so-Random On-Map Ordnance Idea:

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Ok, so just to get this out of the way I am by no means a proponent of random ordnance on map, or any way shape or form personal ordnance.

Now that that is out of the way, let me begin. So, a way to keep the game fresh but predictable is instead of using random algorithms to select ordnance, we have a specific set of on-map weapons that always use the exact same initial spawn. The twist is their respawn. When these weapons respawn at the end of their given timers, they respawn in a different area but eventually in a pattern. While yes, this takes a little time getting to know the sequence, I believe this is still a rewarding and predictable system.

As an example for symmetrical maps: Lets take “The Pit” as our drawing board. Rockets spawn in the back alley with Sword in the Ops room and snipers at each team’s base. Our players use up all the weapons and when they respawn, we have a sword in the back alley and rockets in the Ops room, while the snipers swap with the overshield and camo spawns. The overshield and camo go to a respective base. When those respawn, the pattern reverts to normal, and when they respawn finally, the pattern reverts to it’s new form. (The Pit isn’t the best example.)

An example for asymmetrical maps is Lockout. We have the sword, shotgun, and sniper as the map’s three main power points. So, all the weapons are used up, the sword spawns at shotty spawn, the shotgun spawns at the Sniper tower, and the sniper spawns at the sword spawn. The second time the sword moves to the sniper tower the shotgun spawns at sword spawn and the sniper is at the shotty spawn. The next respawn resets the weapon spawns to normal and the circular cycle repeats.

Now that’s the basic idea and like always it needs improvement (or scrapping if it breaks things).

Yes? or No? Vote now!

2

Glad your innovative. My answer is maybe, would need hands on with it to really judge.

3

i go for maybe you know not cod like

4

> i go for maybe you know not cod like

How is it CoD-like? CoD doesn’t utilize on-map weapons, and I never suggested Personal Loadouts.

5

Why the same weapons i ask? I had the same idea before but why the same weapons why not remove the rockets 2nd time and give us 2 railuns where the shotguns are and mabye a beamnrifle where the rocket spawns and the camo switches to a speed boost and the snipers can become some close combat weapons, but in a pattern, lets say a 3 part patter.

6

> Why the same weapons i ask? I had the same idea before but why the same weapons why not remove the rockets 2nd time and give us 2 railuns where the shotguns are and mabye a beamnrifle where the rocket spawns and the camo switches to a speed boost and the snipers can become some close combat weapons, but in a pattern, lets say a 3 part patter.

Because the issue with issuing new weapons is that it’s unpredictable if it varies per map. It’s best to use the same weapons that follow a simple but balanced pattern to keep things “fresh” without ruining the competitive aspect of things.

The second reason is so the teams that know the pattern, will constantly be wanting to explore and move around the map to gain the advantages they want, while still being able to defend an area.

7

Varies per map? Now I mean that the same weapon spawn over and over in a 3 way pattern, first rocket, sniper(s) and sword then lets say rail guns(s), binary rifle and sticky detonator and lastly maybe fuel rod, beam rifle(s) and saw. and then it cycles, the thing is only more memorizing and it’s not random at all. set locations at set times with set weapons. main problem with halo 3 is that some weapons like fuel rod, beam rifle, sentinel beams are rarely or never seen in multiplayer so i don’t understand how having more weapons (never random in anyway) could be bad for the competitive players.

8

> Varies per map? Now I mean that the same weapon spawn over and over in a 3 way pattern, first rocket, sniper(s) and sword then lets say rail guns(s), binary rifle and sticky detonator and lastly maybe fuel rod, beam rifle(s) and saw. and then it cycles, the thing is only more memorizing and it’s not random at all. set locations at set times with set weapons. main problem with halo 3 is that some weapons like fuel rod, beam rifle, sentinel beams are rarely or never seen in multiplayer so i don’t understand how having more weapons (never random in anyway) could be bad for the competitive players.

One thing please use the quote tool located in the menu at the bottom of each post.

Sure the fuel rod etc. dont get seen often enough and they should be used more often. But there should be maps with them on. I shouldnt go round to the top of the map where a rocket should spawn just because its a needler or a weaker weapon which doesnt fit the pattern like OP suggested. Having it as random makes spawning harder to balance since you cant predict if its going to be a needler in a rockets spawn and visa versa, where as in the OPs case you know where the next weapon will spawn just like in the old games, and by keeping it predictable it keeps people using more of the map.

9

> > Varies per map? Now I mean that the same weapon spawn over and over in a 3 way pattern, first rocket, sniper(s) and sword then lets say rail guns(s), binary rifle and sticky detonator and lastly maybe fuel rod, beam rifle(s) and saw. and then it cycles, the thing is only more memorizing and it’s not random at all. set locations at set times with set weapons. main problem with halo 3 is that some weapons like fuel rod, beam rifle, sentinel beams are rarely or never seen in multiplayer so i don’t understand how having more weapons (never random in anyway) could be bad for the competitive players.
>
> One thing please use the quote tool located in the menu at the bottom of each post.
>
> Sure the fuel rod etc. dont get seen often enough and they should be used more often. But there should be maps with them on. I shouldnt go round to the top of the map where a rocket should spawn just because its a needler or a weaker weapon which doesnt fit the pattern like OP suggested. Having it as random makes spawning harder to balance since you cant predict if its going to be a needler in a rockets spawn and visa versa, where as in the OPs case you know where the next weapon will spawn just like in the old games, and by keeping it predictable it keeps people using more of the map.

Aw sorry I used the reply button instead of the quote button. No I don’t want you to go to rocket spawn only to fins a needler I want you to memorize more than just that rocket. Like every 2 minutes a new weapon spawn where the rocket first spawns. But instead of being a rocket make it a fuel rod. and then after the next 2 minutes it’s a binary rifle and then it goes back to rocket. Why do you want it to be so predictable? I mean with the new HUD you can see where power weapons are for newer players and then after a while you will learn the pattern rocket-fuel rod-binary-rocket-fuel rod-binary and you would like that gets people to move around the map EVEN more as when the fuel rod comes you might not like it and you go to another weapon location to get that one instead. I just don’t see the problem. Random and unpredictable factors are bad but when you know theese spawns (wich you will after a few games thanks to the new hud) it wont be a rush to the rockets to find something you were not expecting.

10

Not necessarily no, not necessarily yes either.

For example, having the Sniper spawn inside of a Sniper tower at a specific point in the game makes that position extremely powerful. We have to consider what locations the patterns use. Another example is eventually having Overshield in one base and a shotgun in another. This leads to much imbalance in gametypes where you constantly spawn at your own base.

Besides that, patterned weapon movements are entirely predictable and do not harm the game in concept.

11

> > > Varies per map? Now I mean that the same weapon spawn over and over in a 3 way pattern, first rocket, sniper(s) and sword then lets say rail guns(s), binary rifle and sticky detonator and lastly maybe fuel rod, beam rifle(s) and saw. and then it cycles, the thing is only more memorizing and it’s not random at all. set locations at set times with set weapons. main problem with halo 3 is that some weapons like fuel rod, beam rifle, sentinel beams are rarely or never seen in multiplayer so i don’t understand how having more weapons (never random in anyway) could be bad for the competitive players.
> >
> > One thing please use the quote tool located in the menu at the bottom of each post.
> >
> > Sure the fuel rod etc. dont get seen often enough and they should be used more often. But there should be maps with them on. I shouldnt go round to the top of the map where a rocket should spawn just because its a needler or a weaker weapon which doesnt fit the pattern like OP suggested. Having it as random makes spawning harder to balance since you cant predict if its going to be a needler in a rockets spawn and visa versa, where as in the OPs case you know where the next weapon will spawn just like in the old games, and by keeping it predictable it keeps people using more of the map.
>
> Aw sorry I used the reply button instead of the quote button. No I don’t want you to go to rocket spawn only to fins a needler I want you to memorize more than just that rocket. Like every 2 minutes a new weapon spawn where the rocket first spawns. But instead of being a rocket make it a fuel rod. and then after the next 2 minutes it’s a binary rifle and then it goes back to rocket. Why do you want it to be so predictable? I mean with the new HUD you can see where power weapons are for newer players and then after a while you will learn the pattern rocket-fuel rod-binary-rocket-fuel rod-binary and you would like that gets people to move around the map EVEN more as when the fuel rod comes you might not like it and you go to another weapon location to get that one instead. I just don’t see the problem. Random and unpredictable factors are bad but when you know theese spawns (wich you will after a few games thanks to the new hud) it wont be a rush to the rockets to find something you were not expecting.

Those weapons have different properties which can make gameplay unbalanced on certain maps. Also many people hated the HUD display of the weapon spawns so that might’n be coming back.

Your argument of not liking the weapon in your example the fuel rod doesnt make any difference since it will happen in both instances and doesnt out on over the other.

12

> Not necessarily no, not necessarily yes either.
>
> For example, having the Sniper spawn inside of a Sniper tower at a specific point in the game makes that position extremely powerful. We have to consider what locations the patterns use. Another example is eventually having Overshield in one base and a shotgun in another. This leads to much imbalance in gametypes where you constantly spawn at your own base.
>
> Besides that, patterned weapon movements are entirely predictable and do not harm the game in concept.

I was thinking in revision asymmetrical maps would utilize a circular map pattern, while symmetrical maps use a cross pattern.

13

The patterns, being easily predictable should not harm map control and such however what’s the case wen the major power weapon on lets say Haven spawns at the other base, wouldn’t it be unfair?
As long as the patterns are predictable but DO NOT spawn in such unfitting places it’s fine.
Also like others have said it must be a FITTING place. I doubt anyone would want to go to a Sniper Tower for a shotgun and shotgun room for sniper.
Otherwise this would provoke more map movement for control of the ever changing areas.

14

One thing to think about with you idea.

Let’s say that we have Lockout, with our Shotgun, Sword and Sniper spawns alternating. Now, assume that the Sword and Sniper get picked up, but, for some reason, the Shotgun is left unused for the duration of the respawn timer. What happens then?

One possibility is that two power weapons would be in one spot, leaving another one empty. That would be unbalanced, since a player could potentially be rewarded with two power weapons, simply for being in the right spot at the right time.

The other possibility is that the shotgun would remain where it is, leaving the Sword and Sniper to change spots. This kind of defeats the purpose of constant, predictable spawns. Weapons wouldn’t be spawning at set places, as you suggested, rather at places that depend on other weapons.

Lastly, the game could also go ahead and despawn any weapon that hasn’t been picked up by the time the respawn timer runs out. While this could theoretically work, it could also be somewhat frustrating. I’ve always loved being able to walk by a weapon, like the Shotgun on Lockout, minutes after the respawn time, only to find it still lying there. Sometimes players forget weapons, so it’s nice to have that little surprise waiting for you.

Either way, if done properly, I think this could be an interesting system to try out. I’d have to play it to properly compare it to the system in Halo 1-Reach, so I’ll give you a maybe. In any case, nice job on thinking this up though! It’s great to see people coming up with innovative ideas that could work with Halo’s true nature, rather than just trying to stick in ideas from other games. Kudos to you!

15

I have an idea similar to this but more dynamic.

When you set up an Ordinance Spawn in Forge, you may set 2 things:

1 - Initial Spawn Time (0-30:00) (Determines at what time in the game the weapon spawns for the first time)

2 - Repawn Timer (0-10:00) (Determines how long between weapon spawns and respawns)

So the way this works, is say we are using the Pit, and we want to set it up to “adjust” weapons as the game plays through, here’s one way to do that:

  • 2x Sniper Rifles spawn at each Tower, Initial Spawn (0:00) Respawn time (0:00)
  • 2x Shotguns spawn at each back corner, Initial Spawn (0:00), Respawn time (6:00)
  • Rocket Launcher spawns at long-hall, Initial Spawn (0:00), Respawn timer (3:00)
  • Energy Sword spawns at ops room, Initial Spawn (0:00), Respawn timer (2:30)
  • Active Camouflage spawns at green hall, Initial Spawn (0:00), Respawn time (4:00)
  • Overshield spawns at bottom hall, Initial Spawn (0:00), Respawn time (4:00)
  • 2x Needlers spawn at each Pit Approach, Initial Spawn (1:00), Respawn time (0:00)
  • 2x Scattershots spawn at each back corner, Initial Spawn (2:00), Respawn time (6:00)
  • Speed Boost spawns at green hall, Initial Spawn (2:00), Respawn time (4:00)
  • Damage Boost spawns at bottom hall, Initial Spawn (2:00), REspawn time (4:00)
  • 2x Railguns spawn at each Tower, Initial Spawn (2:30), Respawn time (2:30)
  • 2x Sticky Detonators spawn at each Objective, Initial Spawn (3:00), Respawn time (0:00)
  • 2x Concussion Rifles spawn at each back corner, Initial Spawn (4:00), Respawn time (6:00)
  • Sniper Rifle spawns under Ops Bridge, Initial Spawn (6:00), Respawn tiem (0:00)

What this method accomplishes, I’ll break it down from top to bottom:

2 Snipers will spawn at the start of the game, but will never respawn, instead 2 Railguns will spawn where Snipers initially spawned every 2:30.

2 Shotguns will spawn at the start of the game, 2 minutes later Scattershots will replace them, 2 more minutes and Concussion Rifles, then because of the 6:00 spawn timer, they will continue this 2 minute cycle indefinitely.

Rocket Launcher and Energy Sword will each spawn regularly in their same place every 2:30 and 3:00 respectively (proving classic spawns will still be a part of the system)

Alternating Overshields and Damage Boost, as well as alternating Active Camo and Speed Boosts, will spawn in their respective places every 2:00.

Needlers, Sticky Detonator, and Sniper each spawn ONCE, in a nonstandard weapon spawn location, at 1:00, 3:00, and 6:00 respectively.

As you can see, not only do we get a little more variety in our map spawns, but they are SET ON A RAIL. When you start a new game on The Pit, you will know EXACTLY which weapons spawn in which locations at what times so long as you’re attentive to the pattern. No more random. As well, the idea of promoting map movement by spawning weapons in non-standard respawn locations exists here, as the Needler, Sticky Det, and late game Snipe spawn apart from the basic control locations on the map, forcing players to abandon standard power weapon positions to attain them and helping the map move and flow.

This is just an example I cooked up to include every aspect of my system. But I think it is clear why and how it is the best way to maintain the values map Ordinance brings, while removing the unpredictability factor entirely.

16

> One thing to think about with you idea.
>
> Let’s say that we have Lockout, with our Shotgun, Sword and Sniper spawns alternating. Now, assume that the Sword and Sniper get picked up, but, for some reason, the Shotgun is left unused for the duration of the respawn timer. What happens then?
>
> One possibility is that two power weapons would be in one spot, leaving another one empty. That would be unbalanced, since a player could potentially be rewarded with two power weapons, simply for being in the right spot at the right time.
>
> The other possibility is that the shotgun would remain where it is, leaving the Sword and Sniper to change spots. This kind of defeats the purpose of constant, predictable spawns. Weapons wouldn’t be spawning at set places, as you suggested, rather at places that depend on other weapons.
>
> Lastly, the game could also go ahead and despawn any weapon that hasn’t been picked up by the time the respawn timer runs out. While this could theoretically work, it could also be somewhat frustrating. I’ve always loved being able to walk by a weapon, like the Shotgun on Lockout, minutes after the respawn time, only to find it still lying there. Sometimes players forget weapons, so it’s nice to have that little surprise waiting for you.
>
> Either way, if done properly, I think this could be an interesting system to try out. I’d have to play it to properly compare it to the system in Halo 1-Reach, so I’ll give you a maybe. In any case, nice job on thinking this up though! It’s great to see people coming up with innovative ideas that could work with Halo’s true nature, rather than just trying to stick in ideas from other games. Kudos to you!

I think the solution to the problem you mentioned is that regardless if a weapon is taken, it despawns and is replaced by the next weapon in cycle, and it all continues on.

And thanks for the compliment. I’m trying to just think up new ideas that don’t hurt the core as much as I can. Warzone was another such idea, it should still be floating around here somewhere.