No Theater mode for CEA? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

http://halo.bungie.org/misc/foconnor_haloanniversary_qa.html
Seriously 343, please put in the little bit of extra work to make theater mode work, it’s something that is just a part of Halo now and to remove that… Come on! I know that a lot of people, myself included, like to just look around in theater mode to get looks at things in ways you couldn’t before and it’s a great tool for the community. Why wouldn’t you put in the work to have it?

> http://halo.bungie.org/misc/foconnor_haloanniversary_qa.html
> Why wouldn’t you put in the work to have it?

Because making the 10 anniversary deadline is obviously more important…

> > http://halo.bungie.org/misc/foconnor_haloanniversary_qa.html
> > Why wouldn’t you put in the work to have it?
>
> Because making the 10 anniversary deadline is obviously more important…

Not to mention technical limitations due to the old engine. Although the PC version did have an early theater mode hack…

Nothing on the scale of what you’re looking for though. Too many issues.

> > > http://halo.bungie.org/misc/foconnor_haloanniversary_qa.html
> > > Why wouldn’t you put in the work to have it?
> >
> > Because making the 10 anniversary deadline is obviously more important…
>
> Not to mention technical limitations due to the old engine. Although the PC version did have an early theater mode hack…
>
>
> Nothing on the scale of what you’re looking for though. Too many issues.

I don’t think you understand game development.

:frowning: I was looking foward to taking screenshots.

Might I suggest an HD capture card? :stuck_out_tongue:

> Might I suggest an HD capture card? :stuck_out_tongue:

Most people use Theater for the free cam and how easy to use and quick it is.

Hopefully they’ll put in theatre, but I’d understand if they didn’t because of the deadline. Ultimately I think we can agree that getting the campaign spot on is of greater importance.

It wouldnt work, they’ll have to redo the engine. screw that, i want my game

> It wouldnt work, they’ll have to redo the engine. screw that, i want my game

No, They wouldn’t. -_-

> I don’t think you understand game development.

Huh? It’s not entirely surprising, isn’t it? They use the very same game engine as the original Halo, ie. theater mode didn’t exist back then, which means it has no coding to support this. It would have required 343i tremendous work to get both theater mode and the original online mp for Halo CEA, and it’s only a remake. If you understand game development, you know that you can’t do everything. It would cost time and effort for features that aren’t all that important in the first place, when you could use that energy to, I don’t know, make a new Halo game. Guys, you have to face it, Halo CE is a 10 years old game, they just can’t put the same amount of time and money into it purely for fan service, that’s just not possible, you seem to forget in which industry we are now. Reach just got out, Gears of War 3, Battlefield 3 and MW3 are coming out relatively soon too. How many people will actually use these features? Big Halo fans. The minority. Most of the gamers nowadays buy games as Hollywood blockbusters, to consume, and then move on. It’s just not a logic thing to do.

And that’s coming from someone who was looking forward the original online mp, but I understand we can’t have everything, choices need to be made. I guess I’ll just load my copy of Halo PC and play online there. But then, look, we’ll have skulls (a fan favourite), terminals (a feature which was appreciated by FANS in Halo 3), other easter eggs, they’ll even make sure some crazy physics tricks will still be possible. Plus, we don’t even know the details of that “more akin to the original mp experience” thing. Sure it can’t replace the original mp, but who knows? Maybe we’ll get something cool, it’s better than nothing. I don’t know, it seems popular to be hating on the internet for no reason. Not happy for something? Whine without looking more into it, trying to understand. Sure, it may very well be laziness or wanting more money, but you can’t put words into others’ mouths just like this without at least trying to understand.

> > I don’t think you understand game development.
>
> Huh? It’s not entirely surprising, isn’t it? They use the very same game engine as the original Halo, ie. theater mode didn’t exist back then, which means it has no coding to support this. It would have required 343i tremendous work to get both theater mode and the original online mp for Halo CEA, and it’s only a remake. If you understand game development, you know that you can’t do everything. It would cost time and effort for features that aren’t all that important in the first place, when you could use that energy to, I don’t know, make a new Halo game. Guys, you have to face it, Halo CE is a 10 years old game, they just can’t put the same amount of time and money into it purely for fan service, that’s just not possible, you seem to forget in which industry we are now. Reach just got out, Gears of War 3, Battlefield 3 and MW3 are coming out relatively soon too. How many people will actually use these features? Big Halo fans. The minority. Most of the gamers nowadays buy games as Hollywood blockbusters, to consume, and then move on. It’s just not a logic thing to do.
>
> And that’s coming from someone who was looking forward the original online mp, but I understand we can’t have everything, choices need to be made. I guess I’ll just load my copy of Halo PC and play online there. But then, look, we’ll have skulls (a fan favourite), terminals (a feature which was appreciated by FANS in Halo 3), other easter eggs, they’ll even make sure some crazy physics tricks will still be possible. Plus, we don’t even know the details of that “more akin to the original mp experience” thing. Sure it can’t replace the original mp, but who knows? Maybe we’ll get something cool, it’s better than nothing. I don’t know, it seems popular to be hating on the internet for no reason. Not happy for something? Whine without looking more into it, trying to understand. Sure, it may very well be laziness or wanting more money, but you can’t put words into others’ mouths just like this without at least trying to understand.

You act like nothing can change the features in Halo CE, I don’t think you quite know what a game engine is.

Did you actually read what I wrote? I said it would require a lot of effort, ie. it CAN be done… Hell, most of my post I was explaining why DOING it wouldn’t have been such a good idea. Or why it’s not surprising…

Yeah, the lack of Theater and Combat Evolved-based multiplayer are this project’s biggest mistakes so far – but they’re understandable when you consider neither of the engine used have supported Theater before. And then you also consider that 343 isn’t actually in development of the game - Saber is, and they’ve probably never designed a Theater mode or a multiplayer on the scale of Halo’s before.

But overall, I completely agree with this thread. Theater has easily become a fan-favorite feature. Stating they shouldn’t add it in because of the competition of Modern Warfare 3 and Gears of War 3 is borderline ignorant, as Call of Duty and Gears of War have both adopted Theater-like functions with their last installment. Granted, Gears of War’s was very clunky and limited to real-time, and Call of Duty’s was much like Halo, but not.

To not have Theater in is a step backwards, especially considering what a draw that would be for longtime fans of the franchise who started out on Combat Evolved (like me). We’d finally be able to take screenshots of some of our favorite things, and videos (take the Tower-to-Tower challenge one of the 343 guys mentioned in that link for instance) could be taken and shared and used much more easily. It could also be used to help make machinimas, which is one of Halo’s obvious cornerstones. To lose all that functionality is a huge loss.

Plus, 343 could use the Theater mode as an opportunity to launch and test a beta phase for a program similar to Bungie Pro, which I think is a virtual necessity for Halo 4, for what it’s worth. Obviously don’t charge for it until Halo 4, as Reach is still at large, and many people (myself included) still have many months of Bungie Pro left. But just add some Bungie.net functionality, see what your technical limits are as far as that goes, and prepare for Halo 4 release.

Excluding Theater is a shame. If it were my decision, I’d take a little extra time to spit-polish the game (it seems more and more like it’s being rushed out the door) and add Theater - even if that meant missing release window and working on a launch-day DLC or patch that adds in Theater. It’s probably one of Halo’s more lucrative features. If 343 proves they can do it better than Bungie, it becomes more lucrative for the next installment.

> But overall, I completely agree with this thread. Theater has easily become a fan-favorite feature. Stating they shouldn’t add it in because of the competition of Modern Warfare 3 and Gears of War 3 is borderline ignorant, as Call of Duty and Gears of War have both adopted Theater-like functions with their last installment. Granted, Gears of War’s was very clunky and limited to real-time, and Call of Duty’s was much like Halo, but not.

I wasn’t talking about theater, but the original online MP. Otherwise it makes no sense, why wouldn’t they add theater because of other games?..

> To not have Theater in is a step backwards, especially considering what a draw that would be for longtime fans of the franchise who started out on Combat Evolved (like me). We’d finally be able to take screenshots of some of our favorite things, and videos (take the Tower-to-Tower challenge one of the 343 guys mentioned in that link for instance) could be taken and shared and used much more easily. It could also be used to help make machinimas, which is one of Halo’s obvious cornerstones. To lose all that functionality is a huge loss.

The problem with Halo CEA is that it’s a remake. Ie. it’s not a new game. So just there, releasing this has more risks than Halo 4, because not everyone wants to buy a game they already have. Sure not everyone has Halo CE, but still, and in nowadays, a LOT of gamers only care about MP, and those additional maps will be available for Reach in the future. So really, the product is destined for people who never bought Halo CE and want to play the campaign, and for long-time fans. What means, is that the potential buyers are a lot less numerous than a full-fledged Halo game, and that is problematic. Since it’s already somewhat of a risk, they need to be careful about what they do with it. And doing a coding overhaul for either the original MP and theater mode may not be profitable, and that’s something important in our industry. You won’t survive too long if you only try to please the fans without thinking of the consequences and weighting them. It’s sad but true. And if you follow, everything that got into the making of Halo CEA is re-recording the music, doing reskins using the Reach engine, adding bits here and there in the campaign, so there’s no major code modification at all, if there’s any, because it’s still a remake of a 10 year old game.

Plus, we don’t even know of the engine limitations. Sure you can modify an engine and all, but since Halo CE, the Halo engine got quite retooled when Halo 3 got out, and you just can’t do anything with such an old engine to make theater, for all we know, this might be a technical limitation problem. And if you make major engine retooling, you have to be careful to make the game actually follow. The game had to be using the original Halo engine to be identical, and there’s a limit of things you can do to retool the engine and make it work the exact same way, it’s not just adding coding which won’t affect anything. I’m not saying it’s necessarily technical limitations, but it’s not impossible at all. Gearbox put quite a lot of effort into Halo PC for online multiplayer because the game was never released on pc in the first place, and was not that old, the game was introduced to a whole new market. That’s not the case here, anyone could have bought it on games on demand, and not everyone will be willing to dish out extra money for something that is mostly fan service. And again, finding out what would make people buy the game versus how much effort it takes to make it is something hard to gauge.

> > But overall, I completely agree with this thread. Theater has easily become a fan-favorite feature. Stating they shouldn’t add it in because of the competition of Modern Warfare 3 and Gears of War 3 is borderline ignorant, as Call of Duty and Gears of War have both adopted Theater-like functions with their last installment. Granted, Gears of War’s was very clunky and limited to real-time, and Call of Duty’s was much like Halo, but not.
>
> I wasn’t talking about theater, but the original online MP. Otherwise it makes no sense, why wouldn’t they add theater because of other games?..
>
>
>
> > To not have Theater in is a step backwards, especially considering what a draw that would be for longtime fans of the franchise who started out on Combat Evolved (like me). We’d finally be able to take screenshots of some of our favorite things, and videos (take the Tower-to-Tower challenge one of the 343 guys mentioned in that link for instance) could be taken and shared and used much more easily. It could also be used to help make machinimas, which is one of Halo’s obvious cornerstones. To lose all that functionality is a huge loss.
>
> The problem with Halo CEA is that it’s a remake. Ie. it’s not a new game. So just there, releasing this has more risks than Halo 4, because not everyone wants to buy a game they already have. Sure not everyone has Halo CE, but still, and in nowadays, a LOT of gamers only care about MP, and those additional maps will be available for Reach in the future. So really, the product is destined for people who never bought Halo CE and want to play the campaign, and for long-time fans. What means, is that the potential buyers are a lot less numerous than a full-fledged Halo game, and that is problematic. Since it’s already somewhat of a risk, they need to be careful about what they do with it. And doing a coding overhaul for either the original MP and theater mode may not be profitable, and that’s something important in our industry. You won’t survive too long if you only try to please the fans without thinking of the consequences and weighting them. It’s sad but true. And if you follow, everything that got into the making of Halo CEA is re-recording the music, doing reskins using the Reach engine, adding bits here and there in the campaign, so there’s no major code modification at all, if there’s any, because it’s still a remake of a 10 year old game.
>
> Plus, we don’t even know of the engine limitations. Sure you can modify an engine and all, but since Halo CE, the Halo engine got quite retooled when Halo 3 got out, and you just can’t do anything with such an old engine to make theater, for all we know, this might be a technical limitation problem. And if you make major engine retooling, you have to be careful to make the game actually follow. The game had to be using the original Halo engine to be identical, and there’s a limit of things you can do to retool the engine and make it work the exact same way, it’s not just adding coding which won’t affect anything. I’m not saying it’s necessarily technical limitations, but it’s not impossible at all. Gearbox put quite a lot of effort into Halo PC for online multiplayer because the game was never released on pc in the first place, and was not that old, the game was introduced to a whole new market. That’s not the case here, anyone could have bought it on games on demand, and not everyone will be willing to dish out extra money for something that is mostly fan service. And again, finding out what would make people buy the game versus how much effort it takes to make it is something hard to gauge.

Overall, I have no idea what your intended point was; that reply was mostly all over the place and I couldn’t understand pieces of it due to a lack of clear points and to grammar issues. Not trying to talk down to you, just being honest; I don’t get what you were trying to say to me.

I think I got this, at the very least. You’re saying adding Theater is a mistake because the audience for the title is limited and the technical hurdles are complicated to overcome and beyond the scope of the project. I just have to say, I don’t think you really know that. Sure, you can speculate and all that, but really, it’s common sense; Theater has been a part of Halo for years now; a staple as significant to many as Forge, multiplayer, or campaign.

In the Waypoint exclusive feature, they clearly stated that the intent of the title was to take an old game, and to bring it faithfully to a new decade. They said they didn’t want to just port it with a new aspect ratio and things, but they wanted to take the time and knock it out of the park basically; to bring it into 2011 with faithful respect for 2001, but modernized. I just don’t understand why that wouldn’t mean bringing modern features along with it. I understand the exclusion of multiplayer on principle (just don’t agree with it…), but Theater is a little less complicated, political, and sticky of a matter.

At the very least, tool it into the new engine. Make it so the playback in Theater is automatically in 2011 modern mode, regardless of whether you played classic or modern Halo. I would imagine tooling it into the new engine wouldn’t be as difficult as trying to tool it into the old one. I do know this, though (and you already stated it): It is not impossible to add Theater. As an amateur developer, I can tell you virtually anything can be done with code if done right. And it just makes sense to add Theater to Anniversary.

More sense than Halo 1 multiplayer, even. It’s a modern feature that doesn’t affect gameplay, doesn’t disrupt any other online Halo game populations, allows the community here at Waypoint and on Bungie.net to thrive even more, and modernizes the title. I guarantee you if Theater was added, the title would be more relevant, and likely to sell more on principle of the feature alone.

I guess I just want 343 to put more effort into it. When it was initially announced and I saw the trailer, I was so psyched for Anniversary. Ever since more details started emerging, my excitement has been dwindling. It almost seems like this project is very low-effort for 343 - no multiplayer or any modern Halo features; just 7 new maps, and essentially a ported, hand-painted campaign. The project took more thought than effort, and could/can still be expanded further. The effort they normally would be putting into programming AI, writing the story, etc, should be put into adding modern features such as Theater. Adding a shiny coat of paint to an old campaign is a lot less effort than making a new campaign; but they still should have treated this title as a brand new one resource-wise, in my opinion. It’s clear they haven’t. Just slap new graphics in and rush it out the door, forget what’s become standard in the series.

I’m psyched for the campaign, but a lot more could have and should have been done here.

> Overall, I have no idea what your intended point was; that reply was mostly all over the place and I couldn’t understand pieces of it due to a lack of clear points and to grammar issues. Not trying to talk down to you, just being honest; I don’t get what you were trying to say to me.

There was no clear point, I was just addressing some of yours, but anyway, sorry for my English it’s not my mothertongue and I might have written my post a bit fast.

> I think I got this, at the very least. You’re saying adding Theater is a mistake because the audience for the title is limited and the technical hurdles are complicated to overcome and beyond the scope of the project. I just have to say, I don’t think you really know that.

Yeah I don’t know about those, I was only hinting at the possibility of those. You just can’t start bashing them for not putting this into the game when you don’t take into consideration all the possibilities.

> Sure, you can speculate and all that, but really, it’s common sense; Theater has been a part of Halo for years now; a staple as significant to many as Forge, multiplayer, or campaign.
>
> In the Waypoint exclusive feature, they clearly stated that the intent of the title was to take an old game, and to bring it faithfully to a new decade. They said they didn’t want to just port it with a new aspect ratio and things, but they wanted to take the time and knock it out of the park basically; to bring it into 2011 with faithful respect for 2001, but modernized. I just don’t understand why that wouldn’t mean bringing modern features along with it. I understand the exclusion of multiplayer on principle (just don’t agree with it…), but Theater is a little less complicated, political, and sticky of a matter.
>
> At the very least, tool it into the new engine. Make it so the playback in Theater is automatically in 2011 modern mode, regardless of whether you played classic or modern Halo. I would imagine tooling it into the new engine wouldn’t be as difficult as trying to tool it into the old one. I do know this, though (and you already stated it): It is not impossible to add Theater. As an amateur developer, I can tell you virtually anything can be done with code if done right. And it just makes sense to add Theater to Anniversary.
>
> More sense than Halo 1 multiplayer, even. It’s a modern feature that doesn’t affect gameplay, doesn’t disrupt any other online Halo game populations, allows the community here at Waypoint and on Bungie.net to thrive even more, and modernizes the title. I guarantee you if Theater was added, the title would be more relevant, and likely to sell more on principle of the feature alone.
>
> I guess I just want 343 to put more effort into it. When it was initially announced and I saw the trailer, I was so psyched for Anniversary. Ever since more details started emerging, my excitement has been dwindling. It almost seems like this project is very low-effort for 343 - no multiplayer or any modern Halo features; just 7 new maps, and essentially a ported, hand-painted campaign. The project took more thought than effort, and could/can still be expanded further. The effort they normally would be putting into programming AI, writing the story, etc, should be put into adding modern features such as Theater. Adding a shiny coat of paint to an old campaign is a lot less effort than making a new campaign; but they still should have treated this title as a brand new one resource-wise, in my opinion. It’s clear they haven’t. Just slap new graphics in and rush it out the door, forget what’s become standard in the series.
>
> I’m psyched for the campaign, but a lot more could have and should have been done here.

Well, I pretty much talked about that but anyway, I’ll try to sum it up in better words. The problem here, is we don’t know the details. I may be giving 343 too much credit, but others may be bashing them too much without knowing the behind the scenes. Even if adding theater mode is not impossible, we have no idea about the implications of doing such. It could be pretty easy, or it could be a headache-inducing puzzle, we don’t know. You say it would make the game sell more, but even that it hard to say. What do you mean by sell more? Thousands of copies? Would it be worth the effort? Thing is, look everywhere. In this industry, little risk is taken. And I bet that has to be backed by the publisher, the ones giving the developers the money in order to pull this off.

We have to not forget that Halo CEA is at its core Halo CE, a 10 years old game. You don’t know how much the consumers care about a remake even with a facelift. We live in an era of consumption, we watch a movie, throw it in the garbage afterwards. We buy a game, play the campaign once (if at all) and then go to the multiplayer until a new game is released, forgot about the old game and the process recommences. And that’s for the vast majority of the player base. Many players played Halo CE and forgot it, moved on, others never played it, but since there’s no new MP might not want to buy it. You say some people might not buy the remake because of the lack of the theater mode and I believe you. But how many? I bet that it wouldn’t change much. All die-hards will still buy it, all those who’d love some online co-op will buy this, anyone who want the old maps remade as soon as possible will buy this, anyone who got into Halo lately and became fans will buy this, and some others. Who would really be irked by the lack of theater for not buying Halo CEA despite the features it adds? Some I bet, but I think it’s foolish to believe it would be of any important consequence. One thing’s for sure, is that it would not be worth the effort from a purely monetary perspective, and that may be enough for Microsoft. Theater mode is neat, but not even essential as forge. I barely use both modes, as probably many people. It’s a step back, but it’s far less essential than the campaign and multiplayer. Also, let’s not forget that such remakes are rarely done, if it was done at all before this. It’s hard to judge how well it will do, and I think the price is proof of that, they wanted to give an incentive to buy the remake. Just look at ODST, yes there was a certain backlash, but Microsoft knew it would still sell because it was new Halo.

theater would be very complicated, especially using the CE engine as a base, because clearly, it wasn’t designed to do that.

The only way I could see Theater mode working is if it was locked in First Person view.

They better give us a butt load of screenshots for every mission after the game comes out…