I am also upset that the only “vanilla” Halo 5 playlist left is now Team Slayer. However, I always thought that spartan charge and ground pound were always cheap and incredibly overpowered. I felt that if they were nerfed and had the damaging aspects removed from them and used solely for their movement abilities they could be kept in the game. But as for their place in competitive Halo as they were at launch they have no place.
I would agree that things tend to get sloppy when using GP and SC, with a lot of friendly splash damage occurring often. I know I’ve been the target of many “accidental” GP’s from fellow teammates that were frustrated with my use of these abilities. I’ve never viewed them as overpowered though because I cannot begin to count the number of times I’ve Ground Pounded to knock someone’s shield down to instantly get killed while vulnerable afterwards. The same was true for Spartan Charge when I missed or struck an invisible object, or even hit true but was so disoriented afterwards that I was unable to land the killing shot. I always viewed the vulnerability following as adequate balance for these Spartan Abilities. Although, the complaints for these abilities have been loud and often, so I fear you are right that they will go away. This makes be sad. Clamber and Thrusters are about the only thing likely to remain in the next installment, both vital upgrades to the Spartan arsenal. Maybe GP and SC will be replaced with something less controversial and enjoyable to use. Time will tell.
> 2535443674201980;1:
> I finally had a decent counter in some situations to a great shot…
This pretty much sums it up as to why these abilities are terrible for the game. Does the person with a great shot get rewarded? No, he gets punished by someone pressing a button that takes little to no skill to do. I know I’m oversimplifying things, but so be it.
Just so you know, the Team Arena playlist used to be the HCS playlist. The HCS playlist is the playlist that is used in the tournament settings which is played by pros and amateurs. Why is it so bad that 343 wants to work with pros on what the settings should be in a playlist that they play in the tourneys which was made for them in the first place?
> 2727626560040591;7:
> > 2535443674201980;1:
> > I finally had a decent counter in some situations to a great shot…
>
> I know I’m oversimplifying things, but so be it.
>
> Why is it so bad that 343 wants to work with pros on what the settings should be in a playlist that they play in the tourneys which was made for them in the first place?
Oversimplifying things indeed, lol. 9 times out of 10 the player with a good shot wins regardless. Getting snipped by a pro with a pistol across the map is no less frustrating than a pro getting Spartan Charged while scoped in to their next perfect, in my humble opinion.
You do make a good point though. Ranked is competitive which strives for balance. I suppose if I’m going to play competitively I need to adjust my playstyle accordingly, not vice versa. I’ve got plenty of social option to enjoy it would seem.
It’s interesting to hear about the removal of SC and GP from the Team Arena playlist. I’m surprised this decision is getting much backlash though considering how much it seemed the majority of players hated them. I’d say this might bring me back to Halo 5 after months away, but the fact that it’s only a single ranked playlist doesn’t interest me very much. At the very least, this may hint at what’s to come for the next game, and I find that to be a far more interesting idea.
> 2533274843634673;9:
> It’s interesting to hear about the removal of SC and GP from the Team Arena playlist. I’m surprised this decision is getting much backlash though considering how much it seemed the majority of players hated them. I’d say this might bring me back to Halo 5 after months away, but the fact that it’s only a single ranked playlist doesn’t interest me very much. At the very least, this may hint at what’s to come for the next game, and I find that to be a far more interesting idea.
I love the less chaotic and more classic arena feel that the game has to it now. Sprint, auto-stabilize, and thrust are still in effect. But since you can’t damage opponents with these abilities they seem far less overpowered or “cheap” bail-outs, in my opinion.
I’m interested in seeing where the next evolution of Halo goes if the competitive arena can stand to play at a higher level with fewer and fewer abilities.
> 2533274794960117;10:
> > 2533274843634673;9:
> > It’s interesting to hear about the removal of SC and GP from the Team Arena playlist. I’m surprised this decision is getting much backlash though considering how much it seemed the majority of players hated them. I’d say this might bring me back to Halo 5 after months away, but the fact that it’s only a single ranked playlist doesn’t interest me very much. At the very least, this may hint at what’s to come for the next game, and I find that to be a far more interesting idea.
>
> I love the less chaotic and more classic arena feel that the game has to it now. Sprint, auto-stabilize, and thrust are still in effect. But since you can’t damage opponents with these abilities they seem far less overpowered or “cheap” bail-outs, in my opinion.
> I’m interested in seeing where the next evolution of Halo goes if the competitive arena can stand to play at a higher level with fewer and fewer abilities.
Im in the same boat as you. At first I hated these abilities, but I do think they have a part in halo. Just not in any ranked playlist. Let them be used in social & wz. I don’t think they will be returning, maybe just sprint & clamber.
> 2533274826044245;11:
> > 2533274794960117;10:
> > > 2533274843634673;9:
> > > It’s interesting to hear about the removal of SC and GP from the Team Arena playlist. I’m surprised this decision is getting much backlash though considering how much it seemed the majority of players hated them. I’d say this might bring me back to Halo 5 after months away, but the fact that it’s only a single ranked playlist doesn’t interest me very much. At the very least, this may hint at what’s to come for the next game, and I find that to be a far more interesting idea.
> >
> > I love the less chaotic and more classic arena feel that the game has to it now. Sprint, auto-stabilize, and thrust are still in effect. But since you can’t damage opponents with these abilities they seem far less overpowered or “cheap” bail-outs, in my opinion.
> > I’m interested in seeing where the next evolution of Halo goes if the competitive arena can stand to play at a higher level with fewer and fewer abilities.
>
> Im in the same boat as you. At first I hated these abilities, but I do think they have a part in halo. Just not in any ranked playlist. Let them be used in social & wz. I don’t think they will be returning, maybe just sprint & clamber.
I like the abilities, too. I started using spartan charge to zoom about the map and using the ground pound as an extra hover ability to try to gain some extra time to stay airborne and avoid grenades, rockets, etc. But there is no reason that a ground pound should be an instant kill from above and there is no reason that a spartan charge should be so devastating and have such an overpowering knock back effect. If the abilities could be used as movement abilities only or the damage removed/lessened I could see them brought back.
Like I said earlier: they always felt cheap or as a bail out in the launch/vanilla H5.
> 2535443674201980;8:
> > 2727626560040591;7:
> > > 2535443674201980;1:
> > > I finally had a decent counter in some situations to a great shot…
> >
> > I know I’m oversimplifying things, but so be it.
> >
> > Why is it so bad that 343 wants to work with pros on what the settings should be in a playlist that they play in the tourneys which was made for them in the first place?
>
> Oversimplifying things indeed, lol. 9 times out of 10 the player with a good shot wins regardless. Getting snipped by a pro with a pistol across the map is no less frustrating than a pro getting Spartan Charged while scoped in to their next perfect, in my humble opinion.
>
> You do make a good point though. Ranked is competitive which strives for balance. I suppose if I’m going to play competitively I need to adjust my playstyle accordingly, not vice versa. I’ve got plenty of social option to enjoy it would seem.
I would have to adamantly disagree with that opinion of yours. Sniping someone from across the map is something that actually requires skill whereas the Spartan Charge takes no skill whatsoever. One is a well-earned kill while the other is a 100% shameless noob crutch to give players who can’t shoot an easy way to cheat free points. Having either happen to you may be frustrating, but it’s certainly not fair to say that they are equally so.
IMO, good bye, Spartan Charge and good -Yoinking- riddance! It’s a pity that playlists without this ability have such a low population because too many kids would just rather shoulder slam their way to victory because actually using ones gun and shooting is just too hard for most of them.
Removing both from fair competitive play is an excelent move. The abuse of such an easy cop-out that’s free from the responsibility of talent and skill only encouraged players with bad aim to have their own fun at everyone elses expense and I’m not sorry to see it go.
> 2727626560040591;7:
> > 2535443674201980;1:
> > I finally had a decent counter in some situations to a great shot…
>
> This pretty much sums it up as to why these abilities are terrible for the game. Does the person with a great shot get rewarded? No, he gets punished by someone pressing a button that takes little to no skill to do. I know I’m oversimplifying things, but so be it.
>
> Just so you know, the Team Arena playlist used to be the HCS playlist. The HCS playlist is the playlist that is used in the tournament settings which is played by pros and amateurs. Why is it so bad that 343 wants to work with pros on what the settings should be in a playlist that they play in the tourneys which was made for them in the first place?
I’m not a fan of the abilities but at the same time, I’m not on the receiving end of em very often either.
And 343 working with the pro’s to fine tune the HCS playlist is the right thing to do. If other people don’t like the changes, there are plenty of other playlists to checkout and play
Arena needed a refresh and something to attempt to stop Splyce’s dominance at the top of the game. Especially with Spartan Charge, the game just moved too fast for people to really understand what was happening, so they tweaked it. They’re still in the game, and you can play “social arena” when Core Play makes its rotation through the playlists.
> 2727626560040591;7:
> > 2535443674201980;1:
> > I finally had a decent counter in some situations to a great shot…
>
> This pretty much sums it up as to why these abilities are terrible for the game. Does the person with a great shot get rewarded? No, he gets punished by someone pressing a button that takes little to no skill to do. I know I’m oversimplifying things, but so be it.
Yeah, it drives me nuts. It really level’s the playing field which just begs for the question, do we REALLY need armor abilites? Halo was more fun to play, with no armor abilities, from 2001 to 2010. That’s my opinion anyways
> 2535443674201980;6:
> I would agree that things tend to get sloppy when using GP and SC, with a lot of friendly splash damage occurring often. I know I’ve been the target of many “accidental” GP’s from fellow teammates that were frustrated with my use of these abilities. I’ve never viewed them as overpowered though because I cannot begin to count the number of times I’ve Ground Pounded to knock someone’s shield down to instantly get killed while vulnerable afterwards. The same was true for Spartan Charge when I missed or struck an invisible object, or even hit true but was so disoriented afterwards that I was unable to land the killing shot. I always viewed the vulnerability following as adequate balance for these Spartan Abilities. Although, the complaints for these abilities have been loud and often, so I fear you are right that they will go away. This makes be sad. Clamber and Thrusters are about the only thing likely to remain in the next installment, both vital upgrades to the Spartan arsenal. Maybe GP and SC will be replaced with something less controversial and enjoyable to use. Time will tell.
I think the issue comes around when you take the skill level of pros into account. While SC and GP may not have been OP in your games where there are going to be less skilled players than pros, in highly competitive games the two abilities caused more harm than good. SC as a movement mechanic was interesting but ultimately increased the pace of the game too fast so 343 didn’t want it. But otherwise I think that it was entirely unskillful and rewarded bad play. Now when an enemy comes sprinting around a corner (where they should have the disadvantage) they can just click one button and get me 1 shot. Even then due to the weird SC mechanics they could charge me and then recover faster than I could after meleeing me and get the kill.
There is very little skillful about that in terms of a competitive arena. Is it fun? For sure I love social where I can just fly at people. But it doesn’t belong in the competitive settings imo.
GP is a little more complicated since it wasn’t nearly as OP as SC in terms of damage. Overall if you actually used GP to hurt people in high level games you just got melted since it is so easy to counter. I think the only real time we saw it used was mainly on Empire to kill people off of pit. However, as a movement mechanic it allowed too many things. First off flag capping on certain maps we’re made much faster due to GP and almost impossible to counter (coliseum is the main one I think of). Additionally it allowed for some jumps easier and/or possible.
I think the abilities are fun for social but for ranked they lead to too many OP opportunities.
> 2535425287181699;17:
> > 2535443674201980;6:
> > I would agree that things tend to get sloppy when using GP and SC, with a lot of friendly splash damage occurring often. I know I’ve been the target of many “accidental” GP’s from fellow teammates that were frustrated with my use of these abilities. I’ve never viewed them as overpowered though because I cannot begin to count the number of times I’ve Ground Pounded to knock someone’s shield down to instantly get killed while vulnerable afterwards. The same was true for Spartan Charge when I missed or struck an invisible object, or even hit true but was so disoriented afterwards that I was unable to land the killing shot. I always viewed the vulnerability following as adequate balance for these Spartan Abilities. Although, the complaints for these abilities have been loud and often, so I fear you are right that they will go away. This makes be sad. Clamber and Thrusters are about the only thing likely to remain in the next installment, both vital upgrades to the Spartan arsenal. Maybe GP and SC will be replaced with something less controversial and enjoyable to use. Time will tell.
>
> I think the issue comes around when you take the skill level of pros into account. While SC and GP may not have been OP in your games where there are going to be less skilled players than pros, in highly competitive games the two abilities caused more harm than good. SC as a movement mechanic was interesting but ultimately increased the pace of the game too fast so 343 didn’t want it. But otherwise I think that it was entirely unskillful and rewarded bad play. Now when an enemy comes sprinting around a corner (where they should have the disadvantage) they can just click one button and get me 1 shot. Even then due to the weird SC mechanics they could charge me and then recover faster than I could after meleeing me and get the kill.
>
> There is very little skillful about that in terms of a competitive arena. Is it fun? For sure I love social where I can just fly at people. But it doesn’t belong in the competitive settings imo.
>
> GP is a little more complicated since it wasn’t nearly as OP as SC in terms of damage. Overall if you actually used GP to hurt people in high level games you just got melted since it is so easy to counter. I think the only real time we saw it used was mainly on Empire to kill people off of pit. However, as a movement mechanic it allowed too many things. First off flag capping on certain maps we’re made much faster due to GP and almost impossible to counter (coliseum is the main one I think of). Additionally it allowed for some jumps easier and/or possible.
>
> I think the abilities are fun for social but for ranked they lead to too many OP opportunities.
There wasn’t a counter to a spartan charge. SC actually chased you around corners even if you thrusted out of the way. But if you used your thrust to try to get out of the way after being obliterated by the freight train that was being spartan charged you were now flung forty feet, susceptible to damage from literally anywhere, and now without any way to try to get to safety to recover.
All of this because someone pressed their melee button while they were sprinting for two seconds. It broke the flow of the higher level competitive side of what I loved about Halo. That’s only for the damaging/cheap panic button effect. Higher level players could use the wider array of movement abilities to fly about the maps and abuse players.
Again, if Spartan Charge and Ground Pound had been somehow changed and were only used as movement abilities only I could see them being used in play today. But as they were in vanilla launch H5 they were horribly unbalanced.
Halo is an FPS - I’m more than happy that removing these mechanics requires people to shoot for kills. Both GP and SC are cheap tactics. Fine in social, no need for them in Ranked or Comp game play.
> 2533274805696963;19:
> Halo is an FPS - I’m more than happy that removing these mechanics requires people to shoot for kills. Both GP and SC are cheap tactics. Fine in social, no need for them in Ranked or Comp game play.
Exactly, if people want to shoulder bash people then why are they playing an FPS anyway?
And it’s not just the “elite few” that hated spartan charge, everyone I know from Onyx to Bronze hated it because it’s just dumb and annoying.
Even if you’re being aware and know where the opponent is, the corridor-based levels of H5, the smaller base radar range, and the newly-nerfed grenade blast radius just makes that all irrelevant because you can’t get at them without putting yourself in a position that’s vulnerable to the charge.
Then combined with the lag compensation (which always favors the charger), it doesn’t even matter if you aim well and shoot them, because they simply “teleport” (lag) from 2x the distance that the game was showing you on your screen.
Then further combine the lag compensation with the “auto-aim” of spartan charge, and it doesn’t even matter if they were lined up or on your screen or if you thrust out of the way – they curve the trajectory mid-charge and somehow magically get the connection even though they weren’t facing you.
And then to top it all off, the cherry is that it makes the loudest, most jarring & abnoxious TWOOONG sound that makes headphone users go deaf & have a heart attack at the same time, just to highlight how absolutely idiotic the series of events was.
And even if you had enough shield to survive it, even if you got enough bullets to make the opponent weak, it paralyzes you so that the charger gets to shoot first afterwards.
Sorry OP, but you were never being smart/strategic/sneaky, you were just abusing a poorly-designed, fundamentally lag-based mechanic that trumps actual skill, awareness or intelligent play.
Kill it with fire, fire the person who thought of it, and go sit in the naughty corner to think about what you did wrong 343.
A have a few thoughts on this,
- The HCS/MLG playlist should be exactly how pros want. If they want SC and GP removed, then it should be. Remember, it’s one playlist. If the pros don’t want x,y, or z and want to make it so you move quicker or something say (aka MLG H3) then that’s fine. Whatever they want. Again, it’s one playlist. It’s good that 343I finally seems like they are working with pros in what they want instead of them telling the pros what they should want. - The problem is much bigger then GP and SC. It’s sprint. Ever since sprint was introduced, it has had a major trickle affect on so many other parts of the game. Ever since sprint, countless hours has been spent of trying to find ways to fix this issue or that. It’s insane really when you think about it. Removing sprint would solve a lot of issues that Halo has. I’d be all for that. - I think I understand what 343I were trying to do with SC and GP, especially SC. The whole run in double melee in reach was a huge problem and it continue in Halo 4. Since 343I seem unwilling to remove sprint to fix this, they had to try and come up with something else. SC was meant to fix that and it did… It just caused other problems lol - I think a form of SC and GP could work as AAs as map pick up items. Like equipment from Halo 3. If it we’re up to me, I’d have equipment and/or AAs brought back as map pick up items and things like GP and SC would be those kinds of things, amongst other equipment/abilities of course. I think most people would be fine with them if they knew they were a one time use item. That goes for AAs in general actually. I think most people were fine with the idea of AAs. The problem with them was they were implemented poorly. Reaches MLG playlist where AAs were map pick ups played so much better. It was definitely a step in the right direction. - If Spartan abilities must stay, including sprint, then I think some form (key word there) of SC should be in. Otherwise it would be the double melee all over again. GP could also work with some adjustments. First off, SC is just way too OP. We all know this i think. Not only that, it can be activated way too often (take like what…3 steps if that?? Jokes!!) and it tracks incredibly well. If it were to stay then these things need to be addressed. GP in my opinion needs to loose it’s AOE. It should be so to get a one hit kill, you actually have to hit the player. You miss, you get nothing!
The reason for removing these two wasn’t to stop them from being used for easier kills, rather, the way people couldn’t abuse them for movement purposes. While I don’t agree with GP being removed, I do know why they did.
I think it was a good idea doing what they did. I can see them carrying that trend into infinite, only have those abilities in certain playlists.
> 2535443674201980;1:
> I’ve been away from Halo 5 for at least a year, so I’ll assume this has already been hotly debated. After a lengthy break from Halo 5 I have returned because I enjoyed Playing Halo 5 very much. I have found myself in countless situation where I’ve attempted to spartan charge or ground pound, only to meekly swing my weapon in the air and instantly die. I thought my control was broken or something until I finally realized these cool spartan abilities were disabled. I’ve never had the greatest shot, maybe 40% accuracy on a good match, so I’ve always relied heavily on stealth, knowing my way around the map extremely well, making useful callouts, and being unpredictable ie. spartan charges and especially ground pounds. I’ve never felt more a spartan than in Halo 5 with these abilities, and now take it away? really??? I understand why pro’s and players with a much better shot than I do get frustrated by these abilities because not even a good shot can save them when taken by surprise. But that help’s level the playing field in my opinion. I finally had a decent counter in some situations to a great shot… but no longer. Instead I feel like I’m playing endless Octogon maps where all I do is strafe and shoot… Removing these abilities has sucked the fun out of it for me. Not everybody is a pro, and they never will be. Stop catering to the elite few.
First of all, if all your using is SC and GP why are you playing a first-person shooter? Every other Halo did not have all of these abilities. I would say just get a better shot. The game is all about shooting not SC and GP. Also, that part where you say “not even a good shot can save them when taken by surprise” is wrong. I’ve seen plenty of times players who are one shot surprised by another player turning the corner and using their shooting/strafing skills are able to kill that player.