It’s totally fair that Dual Wielding is too hard to balance for Multiplayer. But Campaign is a completely different beast, it should not be held back by Multiplayer’s need for 100% perfection in balancing.
If we are to acknowledge that Dual Wielding was a mistake, we must also acknowledge that Halo 2 and Halo 3’s campaigns were a mistake.
The whole point of the SMG experience was for it to be dual wielded.
Hopefully after launch, Dual Wielding can be added into the campaign as there’s no reason not to.
> 2535419587718390;1:
> It’s totally fair that Dual Wielding is too hard to balance for Multiplayer. But Campaign is a completely different beast, it should not be held back by Multiplayer’s need for 100% perfection in balancing.
>
> If we are to acknowledge that Dual Wielding was a mistake, we must also acknowledge that Halo 2 and Halo 3’s campaigns were a mistake.
>
> The whole point of the SMG experience was for it to be dual wielded.
>
> Hopefully after launch, Dual Wielding can be added into the campaign as there’s no reason not to.
See, the same is for the campaign. If you don’t want the unbalanced sandbox, you need to nerf these weapons so badly, that when wielding only one pistol, it doesn’t make sense. I am glad there is no dual wielding.
Contrary to popular belief balance does actually matter in campaign and such a major mechanic does deserve consideration in multiplayer regardless of whether you personally care about multiplayer.
Pointing out dual wielding as implemented in Halo 2/3 was a badly implemented mistake does not invalidate the entirety of their respective campaigns. Is there a way that we could implement using two weapons at once that could enrich the Halo sandbox? Sure, probably, but it is also perfectly valid to drop the mechanic if trying to implement it would negatively impact other aspects of the game.
Post launch dual wielding support is honestly highly unlikely given what we’ve seen of the sandbox so far doesn’t seem to have too many dual wielding friendly weapons atm, so unless they are going to drop a big expansion full of dualies its likely not going to happen outside of maybe mods.
Dual wielding as implemented in Bungie era Halo games was a shallow empty mechanic with little value outside of simply looking cool. That doesn’t mean we couldn’t find a way to implement a newer, better form of dual wielding at a later date, but the lack of DW in Infinite is not really something worth getting up in arms about.
> 2535453809720436;2:
> > 2535419587718390;1:
> >
>
> See, the same is for the campaign. If you don’t want the unbalanced sandbox, you need to nerf these weapons so badly, that when wielding only one pistol doesn’t make sense. I am glad there is no dual wielding.
The campaign balancing needs are different from the multiplayer balancing needs. Campaign has the scarab gun as it’s okay for Chief to mow through enemies, the scarab gun would ruin the balance of multiplayer. Worst case scenario, dual wielding should be a fun skull.
Also if dual wielding was so bad, you must concede Halo 2 and 3 to being bad campaigns.
> 2535419587718390;4:
> > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > >
> >
> > See, the same is for the campaign. If you don’t want the unbalanced sandbox, you need to nerf these weapons so badly, that when wielding only one pistol doesn’t make sense. I am glad there is no dual wielding.
>
> The campaign balancing needs are different from the multiplayer balancing needs. Campaign has the scarab gun as it’s okay for Chief to mow through enemies, the scarab gun would ruin the balance of multiplayer. Worst case scenario, dual wielding should be a fun skull.
>
> Also if dual wielding was so bad, you must concede Halo 2 and 3 to being bad campaigns.
Lol, no, halo 3 campaign is my favourite. And yes i agree with you, campaign really does have different balancing needs. But still, would i use magnum in halo 3?
> 2535453809720436;5:
> > 2535419587718390;4:
> > > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > > >
>
> Lol, no, halo 3 campaign is my favourite. And yes i agree with you, campaign really does have different balancing needs. But still, would i use magnum in halo 3?
They can balance it like this in Infinite’s campaign.
Sidekick (magnum) is a solid gun on it’s own and does 100% damage.
Spending the effort of finding another Sidekick to dual wield gives each gun 75% damage which stacks to a total of 150% damage to reward that small effort.
> 2535419587718390;6:
> > 2535453809720436;5:
> > > 2535419587718390;4:
> > > > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > > > >
> >
> > Lol, no, halo 3 campaign is my favourite. And yes i agree with you, campaign really does have different balancing needs. But still, would i use magnum in halo 3?
>
> They can balance it like this in Infinite’s campaign.
>
> Sidekick (magnum) is a solid gun on it’s own and does 100% damage.
>
> Spending the effort of finding another Sidekick to dual wield gives each gun 75% damage which stacks to a total of 150% damage to reward that small effort.
Yeah and the accuracy could be worse while dual wielding.
> 2535419587718390;6:
> > 2535453809720436;5:
> > > 2535419587718390;4:
> > > > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > > > >
> >
> > Lol, no, halo 3 campaign is my favourite. And yes i agree with you, campaign really does have different balancing needs. But still, would i use magnum in halo 3?
>
> They can balance it like this in Infinite’s campaign.
>
> Sidekick (magnum) is a solid gun on it’s own and does 100% damage.
>
> Spending the effort of finding another Sidekick to dual wield gives each gun 75% damage which stacks to a total of 150% damage to reward that small effort.
Yeah, it’s really not hard to do basic balance like that in PvE modes. Maybe introduce more changes as time goes on. Dual wielding Magnums on Crows Nest is actually one of my favorite Halo experiences, so yes, removing dual wielding does have an impact on some people. I’ve been missing it since Halo 3, and many other people feel the same way, so I do believe they should put effort into the mechanic for at least the PvE modes post release.
> 2535453809720436;7:
> > 2535419587718390;6:
> > > 2535453809720436;5:
> > > > 2535419587718390;4:
> > > > > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > > > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > > > > >
>
> Yeah and the accuracy could be worse while dual wielding.
Exactly, like how the SMGs in Halo 2 were high damage at the cost of high recoil.
> 2535419587718390;9:
> > 2535453809720436;7:
> > > 2535419587718390;6:
> > > > 2535453809720436;5:
> > > > > 2535419587718390;4:
> > > > > > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > > > > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > > > > > >
> >
> > Yeah and the accuracy could be worse while dual wielding.
>
> Exactly, like how the SMGs in Halo 2 were high damage at the cost of high recoil.
they were only high damage if you dual-wielded them
> 2533274840624875;10:
> > 2535419587718390;9:
> > > 2535453809720436;7:
> > > > 2535419587718390;6:
> > > > > 2535453809720436;5:
> > > > > > 2535419587718390;4:
> > > > > > > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > > > > > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > Yeah and the accuracy could be worse while dual wielding.
> >
> > Exactly, like how the SMGs in Halo 2 were high damage at the cost of high recoil.
>
> they were only high damage if you dual-wielded them
That was the whole appeal of them, they were designed to be dual wielded which is why seeing them only single wielded is a travesty. It’s like roleplaying as a knight with a sword, but no shield. Or going to a wedding with a tuxedo top but no pants.
> 2535419587718390;11:
> > 2533274840624875;10:
> > > 2535419587718390;9:
> > > > 2535453809720436;7:
> > > > > 2535419587718390;6:
> > > > > > 2535453809720436;5:
> > > > > > > 2535419587718390;4:
> > > > > > > > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > > > > > > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah and the accuracy could be worse while dual wielding.
> > >
> > > Exactly, like how the SMGs in Halo 2 were high damage at the cost of high recoil.
> >
> > they were only high damage if you dual-wielded them
>
> That was the whole appeal of them, they were designed to be dual wielded which is why seeing them only single wielded is a travesty. It’s like roleplaying as a knight with a sword, but no shield. Or going to a wedding with a tuxedo top but no pants.
there’s the issue. You’re gutting a weapon so that its only usable when you have 2. Even in campaign that’s detrimental
> 2533274840624875;12:
> > 2535419587718390;11:
> > > 2533274840624875;10:
> > > > 2535419587718390;9:
> > > > > 2535453809720436;7:
> > > > > > 2535419587718390;6:
> > > > > > > 2535453809720436;5:
> > > > > > > > 2535419587718390;4:
> > > > > > > > > 2535453809720436;2:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535419587718390;1:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah and the accuracy could be worse while dual wielding.
> > > >
> > > > Exactly, like how the SMGs in Halo 2 were high damage at the cost of high recoil.
>
> there’s the issue. You’re gutting a weapon so that its only usable when you have 2. Even in campaign that’s detrimental
Which is why we were discussing balancing ideas like:
> 2535419587718390;11:
> They can balance it like this in Infinite’s campaign.
> Sidekick (magnum) is a solid gun on it’s own and does 100% damage.
> Spending the effort of finding another Sidekick to dual wield gives each gun 75% damage which stacks to a total of 150% damage to reward that small effort.
Even if it’s that hard to balance, it can still be featured as a campaign skull like the Scarab Gun.
Duel wielding was a neat idea, but the game feels better in my opinion where they do not exist.
I completely agree duel-wielding should at least be in campaign. So far, I’m liking the new weapons coming to Infinite but it would be a force-multiplier to duel-wield weapons. Canonically, Spartans are super-soldiers, a force-multiplier and being able to duel-wielding adds some serious firepower against the Banished threat. I sincerely hope they consider and at least put it in campaign.
> 2533274818575073;15:
> Spartans are super-soldiers
343 keeps talking up a storm about that, but then keeps dual wielding out? For real, I see no good reason to keep it out of PvE modes. Maybe they want to get the base weapon sandbox right, but really, if a few random dudes on the forums can come up with decent PvE dual wielding balancing ideas in a day, you can’t say 343 couldn’t come up with something. Just disable it in PvP modes outside of custom games, and your playtesting goes down to almost nothing. I’m seriously hoping for an eventual post release dual wielding update, in PvE modes at the very least. You can’t really argue against that much without coming across as an overly apologetic fanboy.
If dual wielding is bad for Halo, so sprint and enhanced mobility should be out of Halo.
> 2535453809720436;2:
> > 2535419587718390;1:
> > It’s totally fair that Dual Wielding is too hard to balance for Multiplayer. But Campaign is a completely different beast, it should not be held back by Multiplayer’s need for 100% perfection in balancing.
> >
> > If we are to acknowledge that Dual Wielding was a mistake, we must also acknowledge that Halo 2 and Halo 3’s campaigns were a mistake.
> >
> > The whole point of the SMG experience was for it to be dual wielded.
> >
> > Hopefully after launch, Dual Wielding can be added into the campaign as there’s no reason not to.
>
> See, the same is for the campaign. If you don’t want the unbalanced sandbox, you need to nerf these weapons so badly, that when wielding only one pistol doesn’t make sense. I am glad there is no dual wielding.
The Halo 2 dual needlers was pretty much a red flag that was ridiculous for MP on release then they had to slow the fire rate down on later games if memory serves and remove the DW functionality.
I think a lot of you arguing against dual wielding in campaign are forgetting one very important factor to it…it’s ridiculously fun and makes you feel like, due to no profanity allowed, a bad butt mother lover.
Im only partly joking when I say that because the point is that it’s fun. Again, I get it not being in MP, but it really does feel like limiting the fun factor of campaign a small bit by not including it. After all, games are supposed to be fun. That’s why we play them.
> 2535453809720436;2:
> > 2535419587718390;1:
> > It’s totally fair that Dual Wielding is too hard to balance for Multiplayer. But Campaign is a completely different beast, it should not be held back by Multiplayer’s need for 100% perfection in balancing.
> >
> > If we are to acknowledge that Dual Wielding was a mistake, we must also acknowledge that Halo 2 and Halo 3’s campaigns were a mistake.
> >
> > The whole point of the SMG experience was for it to be dual wielded.
> >
> > Hopefully after launch, Dual Wielding can be added into the campaign as there’s no reason not to.
>
> See, the same is for the campaign. If you don’t want the unbalanced sandbox, you need to nerf these weapons so badly, that when wielding only one pistol doesn’t make sense. I am glad there is no dual wielding.
No you dont. It’s really simple to have the weapons behavior change when another is picked up. Remove AA and decrease accuracy while a 2nd weapon is in hand. Literally not hard at all. I don’t get how a massive game dev company hasnt thought of something so simple.