No Random Spread For Precision Weapons

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Please?

I’m tired of people using the excuse that spread makes a weapon fill its intended role, if that weapon is so good for long range, then maybe it should be a long range weapon? Furthermore, keep in mind that there are much better ways to limit range, maximum red reticle is enough to suffice. Assuming bullet magnetism is removed passed red reticle, long range shots would basically be as difficult as long range no-scoping with the sniper, while being significantly less powerful.

And the argument that managing spread “takes skill”; why do most of the skilled players dislike spread then? The skill of knowing when to use the br is simply knowing what is considered mid-range when defined by the developers, its like knowing that Spartans are supposed to be green…

2

Projectiles
More leading is required as range increases, to the point where weapons can actually be dodged effectively.

Recoil
Makes it hard to keep on target at range. Can be predictable, can go left to right or just straight up.

Less aim assist
Self explanatory.

Damage Ramp Up / Fall Off
In several games, weapons do more damage up close and less damage at extreme ranges. This allows you to attack at long range, but drastically lowers your effectiveness.

3

Exactly, any one of these solutions limits range better, are more skillful, and are more realistic than spread.

4

Some level of Spread has been on percision weapons in every single Halo game. Even Halo CE and 2. Why start completely eliminating it now?

The Needle Rifle, Halo 4 version of the DMR, and LR are the only 3 non Sniper weapons to have zero spread. And low and behold they are in both the worst Halo’s in the franchise.

5

> Some level of Spread has been on percision weapons in every single Halo game. Even Halo CE and 2. Why start completely eliminating it now?
>
> The Needle Rifle, Halo 4 version of the DMR, and LR are the only 3 non Sniper weapons to have zero spread. And low and behold they are in both the worst Halo’s in the franchise.

Hey meow, those 3 are sweet weapons.

6

> Some level of Spread has been on percision weapons in every single Halo game. Even Halo CE and 2. Why start completely eliminating it now?
>
> The Needle Rifle, Halo 4 version of the DMR, and LR are the only 3 non Sniper weapons to have zero spread. And low and behold they are in both the worst Halo’s in the franchise.

Why not? Is there any reason other than nostalgia to keep spread? Halo CE’s magnum had almost zero spread, hitting consistently every time in red reticle range, the BR was designed with the same -Yoink- philosophy in mind in Halo 2 and 3 (with the one in Halo 2 eventually getting fixed).

In Reach, the DMR had zero spread, just bloom. Reach MLG v7 was actually one of the most enjoyable competitive experiences since CE, utilizing a weapon that had no bloom or spread.

In Halo 4, the lightrifle has no spread and is an incredibly satisfying weapon to use (before the patch). It was intended to be the premier competitive weapon, though the community rejected it for being alien or some -Yoink-.

7

> > Some level of Spread has been on percision weapons in every single Halo game. Even Halo CE and 2. Why start completely eliminating it now?
> >
> > The Needle Rifle, Halo 4 version of the DMR, and LR are the only 3 non Sniper weapons to have zero spread. And low and behold they are in both the worst Halo’s in the franchise.
>
> Why not? Is there any reason other than nostalgia to keep spread? Halo CE’s magnum had almost zero spread, hitting consistently every time in red reticle range, the BR was designed with the same Yoink! philosophy in mind in Halo 2 and 3 (with the one in Halo 2 eventually getting fixed).
>
> In Reach, the DMR had zero spread, just bloom. Reach MLG v7 was actually one of the most enjoyable competitive experiences since CE, utilizing a weapon that had no bloom or spread.
>
> In Halo 4, the lightrifle has no spread and is an incredibly satisfying weapon to use (before the patch). It was intended to be the premier competitive weapon, though the community rejected it for being alien or some Yoink!.

That’s the thing though, “In red reticle range”

Big Team Battle is butchered by no-spread spawn weapons.

Also, the Reach DMR actually did have a small amount of spread that impacted some of the largest maps in the game. You can test this by shooting a wall even on Sword Base at mid range. The bullet holes won’t always be in the same spot. The NR was the only non-sniper in Reach with absolutely 0 spread (not accounting for Bloom).

The Magnum’s spread was more than enough to keep 3 shots from happening consistently at mid-long range in Halo CE. If you test against a wall firing semi-automatically, you’ll notice the bullets will make a perfect hollow circle exactly half the diameter of the reticle. Meaning no shot ever went perfectly straight, they always strayed a little bit in a circular pattern.

The BR’s spread in Halo 2 was very tight, but again at long range, it took more than the minimum 4 shots to kill because the 2nd and 3rd bullet were off by a little bit.

Halo 3’s BR had a lot more spread than Halo 2’s. TOO much in fact. But bullet travel definitely had a good impact on the game. The Halo 2 BR with Bullet Travel and Halo CE aim assist would have been perfect IMO.

But if bullet travel returns, which is very viable now that there are dedicated servers, no spread weapons like the LR or DMR could come back, because leading shots would be required.

But ultimately the BR’s perfect blend of having a single bullet go perfectly straight, and the other two stray a little bit, is ideal. It allows you to land shots on enemies from farther away, but it will take more shots to actually kill them.

8

  1. I’m talking CE magnum scoped red reticle range, that’s basically the longest range out of any utility weapon, almost to the point where bullets disappear entirely

  2. I’m solely discussing arena-style halo at the moment, in Big Team, you should spawn with an AR or magnum to limit cross-mapping.

  3. But did the spread on the ZBDMR actually do anything gameplay wise? If it didn’t and was functionally spreadless, why not just remove spread entirely?

  4. Mid to long range in Halo CE is within scoped Red Reticle Range, a bullet magnetism pulls shots towards the head regardless. My point is with the CE magnum and the Reach DMR, the small amount of spread present didn’t do anything and people played as if there was no spread.

5.Yes, the Halo 2 BR did have a tiny bit of spread, but it was laughably ineffective at long range (lack of magnetism) to be effective anyways. Furthermore, the design philosophy

  1. I completely agree with merging those two weapons.

  2. Exactly, though I do wonder about the effect of magnetism on messing with the aim.

  3. But wouldn’t a zero-spread, non-hitscan, BR fill this role even better? You can still suppress moving targets while being unable to deal full damage because of travel time, but idiots standing still or camping with camo can be aptly punished.

9

> Projectiles
> More leading is required as range increases, to the point where weapons can actually be dodged effectively.
>
> Recoil
> Makes it hard to keep on target at range. Can be predictable, can go left to right or just straight up.
>
> Less aim assist
> Self explanatory.
>
> Damage Ramp Up / Fall Off
> In several games, weapons do more damage up close and less damage at extreme ranges. This allows you to attack at long range, but drastically lowers your effectiveness.

And a shorter bullet magnetism and aim assist drop off distance. Although I have to say, if recoil was to be implemented, straight up is the only option. If it can go to more than one direction, it becomes unpredictable. Having it go to anywhere than up would only serve to make it unintuitive.

10

> 1. I’m talking CE magnum scoped red reticle range, that’s basically the longest range out of any utility weapon, almost to the point where bullets disappear entirely

What? The Halo CE Magnums RR range was no longer than the DMR in Halo 4, I’m sitting on Blood Gulch right now testing ranges. The Magnum has a 2x scope vs the DMR’s 3x which may give the illusion of a close drop off point. But it clearly isn’t any farther away when you unscope to get an equal footing of distance before scoping in to test the red reticle. And even then, that’s no where near “cross map” range. The DMR can tag targets on Hemmorhage from one base’s ridge all the way to the enemy base. The Magnum’s shots drop off LONG before then. The NR can 7 shot no problem from those ranges too.

> 2. I’m solely discussing arena-style halo at the moment, in Big Team, you should spawn with an AR or magnum to limit cross-mapping.

Absolutely not. A BR or Carbine sure. But the AR and Magnum would butcher BTB. Halo 3 BTB was plain awful with AR starts. And BTB is where spread actually plays into account. The only game where spread had a negative effect on Arena games was Halo 3 for obvious reasons. At Arena ranges, the enemy is always close enough that Spread is a nonfactor.

> 3. But did the spread on the ZBDMR actually do anything gameplay wise? If it didn’t and was functionally spreadless, why not just remove spread entirely?

It really did. On Hemmorhage or Paradiso, for instance, it interrupted 5 shot kills all the time. Didn’t necessarily stop you from tagging the opponent, just from getting that last headshot.

> 4. Mid to long range in Halo CE is within scoped Red Reticle Range, a bullet magnetism pulls shots towards the head regardless. My point is with the CE magnum and the Reach DMR, the small amount of spread present didn’t do anything and people played as if there was no spread.

Mid range maybe. But long range implies at least as far as a ridge to it’s own base on BG, which the Magnum isn’t red reticle at. And despite magnetism, while testing the Magnum at maximum red reticle range, I never landed a single 3 hit kill. The least I got was 4, with mostly 5s and 6s. And that was against a target that wasn’t even moving. ANY non-spread weapon in Halo Reach or 4 would have killed in their minimum killtime. Which is very bad for BTB.

> 5.Yes, the Halo 2 BR did have a tiny bit of spread, but it was laughably ineffective at long range (lack of magnetism) to be effective anyways. Furthermore, the design philosophy

The BR’s spread kept it from 4 shotting at long range, ultimately that’s all that matters because it lets players move around. In Arena games, where you never hit the long range mark, 4 shots were a given despite spread. This is the way it should always work.

> 8. But wouldn’t a zero-spread, non-hitscan, BR fill this role even better? You can still suppress moving targets while being unable to deal full damage because of travel time, but idiots standing still or camping with camo can be aptly punished.

With travel time, a little practice would be all you need to 4 shot across a map with a Bullet Travel BR. The little bit of spread would force you to fire more shots to kill at that range even if you’re spot on, which is a necessity on wide open maps. Your Arena games wouldn’t be effected by the spread because the range wouldn’t be far enough for it to make a difference.

11

BR:

How about predictable spread caused by recoil? Players could pull back slightly on the RS to counter this, however landing all your bullets would be quite difficult at range even while shooting at stationary targets.

Carbine:

The Carbine could function like it has 2 chambers; that is the first shot would fire slightly above the center of the reticle and the second would fire slightly below. At close-mid range bullet magnetism would pull both of these shots to the center of the reticle, whereas at long range bullet magnetism would not exist.

Random Spread = Bad , Predictable Spread = Good

12

What if they made the spread for the BR consistent? Like it fires the 3 bullets and they travel in a vertical group?

13

> What if they made the spread for the BR consistent? Like it fires the 3 bullets and they travel in a vertical group?

This is exactly what I meant with the 1st part of my post.

14

> What if they made the spread for the BR consistent? Like it fires the 3 bullets and they travel in a vertical group?

I would think that realistcally it would be pretty difficult for this to happen if it fires 3 times back to back to back instantly, recoil etc.

15

> > What if they made the spread for the BR consistent? Like it fires the 3 bullets and they travel in a vertical group?
>
> I would think that realistcally it would be pretty difficult for this to happen if it fires 3 times back to back to back instantly, recoil etc.

As it recoils from each bullet the next one fires slightly higher up. Work?

16

@ Fos Kuvol:

  1. Even if the Magnum’s red reticle range was as long as the DMR’s pre-patch, it would still be the longest among all the other precision weapons. I rarely played CE BTB, so I would consider cross-mapping to be across Hang Em High. You are correct in saying the DMR shoots further; However, past the range the bullets of the magnum drop off, the DMR is ineffective- How many kills have you gotten with the DMR from one base to the other?

  2. A twelve round magnum with a scope would accomplish the same goals as a carbine or Br. In Halo 3, the AR and magnum were a trash weapons anyways so of course they weren’t used well.

  3. The DMR in reach was hitscan; assuming leading is brought back, You’ll have ample space and time to out strafe shots at that range. This is the underlying reason why leading is better than spread; A perfectly (or predictably) accurate rifle will promote movement while limiting range by making it harder, if not impossible, to hit a target moving/strafing while campers at long range can be forced to move.

  4. Any non spreadable weapon would have achieved the minimum kill… if it was hitscan, had no recoil, and the target was standing absolutely still.

  5. While arena maps tend to be smaller in physical size, long sightlines still exist. Properly shooting from these positions is very difficult but creates even more interesting map dynamics. Such mechanics should not be messed up by unpredictable spread.

  6. With slow moving bullets, you would be unable to be spot on. Any competent player would start moving erratically, dodging some of your shots (you only know where they are, not where they’re going to be) forcing you to shoot more. Only if the target was completely standing still and basically AFK would you be able to four-shot them, and even then, bullet travel time would increase your killtime.

17

> And a shorter bullet magnetism and aim assist drop off distance. Although I have to say, if recoil was to be implemented, straight up is the only option. If it can go to more than one direction, it becomes unpredictable. Having it go to anywhere than up would only serve to make it unintuitive.

Have you ever played Battlefield 3?? recoil starts going horizontally after a fixed amount of shots for high RoF weapons, and guns with smaller RoF (such as the PKP) have a horizontal recoil that can actually be countered with the analog to the point of having the gun point at just one place, with an effetive range of 130m for 8 shots…
That being said, still NO, NO HORIZONTAL RECOIL, i dont think it would work on Halo 4, but vertical; HELL YEAH!! XD

18

> Exactly, any one of these solutions limits range better, are more skillful, and are <mark>more realistic than spread</mark>.

What? I don’t know, laser beam small-arms weapons are exists outside Call Of Duty.

19

> > Exactly, any one of these solutions limits range better, are more skillful, and are <mark>more realistic than spread</mark>.
>
> What? I don’t know, laser beam small-arms weapons are exists outside Call Of Duty.

In real life, rifle caliber firearms fired semi-automatically have bullet groupings less than 2 inches apart, largely caused by human error. Considering the fire rate of the Halo 3 BR, it is less accurate than even a modern SMG.

20

> > > Exactly, any one of these solutions limits range better, are more skillful, and are <mark>more realistic than spread</mark>.
> >
> > What? I don’t know, laser beam small-arms weapons are exists outside Call Of Duty.
>
> In real life, rifle caliber firearms fired semi-automatically have bullet groupings less than 2 inches apart, largely caused by human error. Considering the fire rate of the Halo 3 BR, it is less accurate than even a modern SMG.

No, I’m speaking about the Halo 4 incarnation of the weapons. Also, recoil and material medium effects the accuracy. No mater how precise a Spartan is. Weapons are not be that accurate when fired by human hand.

Running-Jumping isn’t help accuracy at all. Spartans do it really often. The 2 inch difference is being a bigger factor in longer ranges.

Overall it’s a fantasy world. Halo 3’s BR was inaccurate for balancing reasons.