No excuse for BTB to not have BR starts!

Now for a longer, constructive and more detailed post that hopefully people who use “WAAAA” as an argument and call people twice their age ‘kids’ can also understand.

All I ask is if you’re going to reply or quote me THEN READ AND UNDERSTAND THE FULL COMMENT FIRST - NOT ONE SENTENCE. AND ANSWER IT ALL.

The problem with BTB is not weapon starts.

The problem with BTB is map design, heavy vehicles spawning too late in game and in random positions, and power weapon spawning.

Imagine in Valhalla/Ragnarok/Viking, I’ve used this an example as it appears in lots of Halos helping people understand whenever they began playing.

The majority of the map is open, there is a raised area in the centre providing cover and a power position, there is cover at each end (bases), some cover each side of centre and minimal cover leading to the centre.

The vehicles (heavy, light and air) spawn at match start and periodically throughout the match.

The power weapons are balanced at each end and centre depending on variation and gametype.

In slayer the lack of cover makes people gravitate to hold top mid, and the centre sides (pelican for example), controlling the map.

They can drop back to collect power weapons and vehicles.

Players can push to the opposing base to steal their weapons and vehicles using vehicles and timers to further control the game.

Teams can be spawn trapped but can use their starting weapons to defend themselves, pushing out as a team to regain some control.

In CTF players can use vehicles and open and closed flanks to protect and help their team.

Power weapons and vehicles still dominate even though players have BRs.

But vehicles can be countered by power weapons and power weapons can be countered by starting weapons and teamwork.

I can go on but it will just overcomplicate things. The point is, it’s balanced and there is LESS camping (note: camping and holding a power position is far from the same thing, you little crouch walking shotty user you!).

Another point is this style of BTB provides a more long-range gameplay which begs the question what are you on about to the “go play ranked or swat if you want BR” commenters. No, you go play ranked or swat if you want close combat AR gameplay.

It’s a big map, it’s supposed to be a fight over a large area like every other halo has provided - not 10 different fights going on in 10 different mini arenas around the map.

In infinite, the heavy vehicles make no impact on the game because they show up in the closing seconds (or end scene).

The maps are large but have far too much cover. This splits the maps into smaller zones making the larger maps almost pointless and making snipers camp knowing they can run or grapple away with no competition. Also making close combat AR no skill spraying everywhere in micro-zones everywhere.

The lighter vehicles are forced into driving set routes like they are on a track and if they hit a pebble they flip over.

The arguments from other posters above suggest having BRs would cause camping - with these maps yes they might but if all the other map and gameplay traits were put back to how they were they would not cause camping.

Having so much cover and starting with an AR causes camping - because people can hide behind one of the 50000 rocks, spray someone and get the kill before they know they’re there.

If the map was like Valhalla/Ragnarok/Viking - they’d be flushed out within 20 seconds.

What I’m saying is - AND THIS IS THE BIT TO READ BEFORE AGGRESSIVE REPLYING - this topic was saying BRs should be on BTB, some are saying yes (me) and we mean they should but everything else should be adjusted alongside. Some are saying no because it’ll cause camping and cross mapping - maybe on these maps but if everything was put right then no, it wouldn’t and no it never has.

Now if one of you ‘kids’ give me a short or wrong answer, so help ya!

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I would disagree with the map design being a problem but I can certainly agree with the game spawning in the power vehicles at weird locations and late (especially the big tanks). Power weapons are often spawned inside the base or via drop-pads which makes this kinda weird, true.

I’d say this is a bit the main issue in Infinite in comparison to the older ones. Vehicles feel very weak and can be destroyed by almost anything from almost everywhere, yet the explosive weapons feel super weak in comparison.

12 players as opposed to 8 players per team does change things up a little though. The maps need to be a bit larger and I imagine the cover pieces aren’t too terrible in that regard so that you actually have a chance to push forward a bit.

What I meant with camping is actually sitting around the edges of the maps since with the BR in Infinite you can literally just snipe across the map. Having multiple people doing that makes it a nightmare to even get into the middle. This felt way different in the older Halos.

This one I didn’t understand…

I usually noticed 3 battle locations (center, right and left) which felt fine for me. Exception being Total Control and Stockpile. There it’s usually around the objectives.

This I can support. It’s terrible atm.

This is literally what balances it for me so I’m fine with it. I don’t see this as an issue.

This is simply learning how to drive really. You can easily get access to the less intended spots for vehicles if you learn to drive the vehicles properly.

Why not simply nerf the BR into the ground instead? But I guess I’m the only one with this opinion.

Thanks for replying, I fear this is going to get complicated and it’ll be replying with quotes within quotes but it beats reading about cat ears.

I’ll leave out the bits we agree on because - what’s the point in that.

What I meant was, in older Halos, the vehicles and power weapons gave a big advantage and could provide killstreaks etc even though there were BRs. Having BRs didn’t make the vehicles or power weapons pointless to pick-up/use.

If BRs were to be brought back - yes the vehicle shields in infinite is another thing that would need to be fixed - well, they need to be fixed anyway.

So - me trying to crack a joke about shotty campers confused this - cut that bit out :wink: - yes I know you meant BRs camping and crossmapping. When I wrote the original comment I had Valhalla vs Fragmentation in mind.

If you were to BR/camp in Valhalla you’d be pushed out in 20secs. There was cover, but not cover every 10steps. You could camp and snipe but would be pushed/naded out.

On Fragmentation you can camp with an AR in one spot the whole game and you can also change which rock you are camping behind without being seen as there are so many or do what Pingy does on that map and get the snipe and sit on a rock and watch one sight line and then grapple back to base when pushed. If he was on Valhalla, he could get pushed wide from the sides or pushed with a strong vehicle.

This is what I mean by things being fixed together - on the maps as they are, if you throw in BR starts then yes people may camp especially on Deadlock but if the maps had the Valhalla style layout they wouldn’t because they’d be pushed out.

(I’m not saying every map to be another Valhalla copy but the gameplay it provides).

A couple of people wrote, “if you want BR starts, play ranked”.
Ranked being arena, I’d argue wanting AR starts would make you want to play arena type more than someone wanting a weapon designed for range.

AND

Again, I had fragmentation in mind when writing this, very limited sight lines, lots of places to escape unseen, lots of close combat because of this.

Infinites warthogs drive like helium balloons, they should be enjoyable. I can quite easily drive them but they are boring, too light and unresponsive.

The past halos rewarded skilled drivers without having to avoid a pebble. You could also drive many, many different routes which again would balance the fact everyone had BRs.

Being shot at by 8 BRs while trying to get your flag carrier back unharmed was skillful and rewarding - another example why things should be fixed together.

Just because you can get the infinite warthog up to high ground, does not mean you have the option of driving it there when you have the whole team shooting at you with a ‘kill the flag carrier’ marker on you.

Again, the map design, vehicle traits and weapons all worked well together.

The BRs fine if everything is fixed along side it.

The way everything mentioned in BTB is now, the easy option was to give ARs, the real fix is sort everything else and then add the BR back in the environment it works in.

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Id go further by requesting BR starts be part of the rotation for all game modes.

I can’t stand BTB in this game. So much running and waiting for weapons to spawn.

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But there is no dance with an AR. It’s just a bullet hose

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I was a big fan of Valhalla too so I kinda see what you’re referencing to now. There’s a lot of racks on Fragmentation that provide a BR so there’s that too. Somehow I don’t have too much of a problem with people sneaking behind rocks. I mean that’s why there’s always like a million nades around the map (at least to me it feels like especially on that map, tons of nades are thrown to flush out players in comparison to the other two maps). Guess I’m just differently minded in that regard.

I’d absolutely be down for that. I’m just generally not a fan of the BR in Infinite.

So you prefer ranged combat if I interpret this correctly? Not necessarily my type unless it’s some snipers game-mode.

What I just noticed is that drifting seems to be quite favorable in many occasions instead of standard driving for the Warthog. I can’t remember this being the case in the older Halos unless I missed something…? Have to admit, I hardly enjoyed Halo 4 and 5 so I barely played those two.
The vehicles just feel very weak.

That could potentially work, the question is whether other things would really overpower the BR or not. It’s literally asking for an entire overhaul of the game in a way.

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If there’s one argument I genuinely don’t get in this interesting debate, it’s people saying the BR “is too powerful at range for BTB”; most of those 3 maps are wide sure, but they’re also quite intricated, which makes mid-range fights likely to occur more often than long range fights (unless you’re braindeadly just rushing in some of the open fields, but that’s on you). And in regard to mid-range fights, the AR is just extremely efficient while also being, as an automated weapon, so much easier to use than any precision weapon, BR included. If anything, I feel the AR at mid-range is way too powerful and inappropriate for BTB as is, without even talking about any other points that may benefit from tweaks and adjustments.

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A mix, again on Valhalla the cover around the edges and leading to top mid could lead to close combat but the open sight lines can have your team providing help from a distance.

Fragmentation has majority close combat except the set tracks that have long sight lines.

I don’t see the problem, they’ve only spent half a billion and between 2 and 6 years depending on how you time it :joy:

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I don’t want BR starts for BTB unless it is a game type that sometimes comes up. I just want BTB to work, man.

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BR starts for BTB can be its own playlist.
I don’t wanna spend half an hour camping behind cover and taking potshots with the starting weapon at people, just because some of y’all can’t preform without a BR in your hands.

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Another classic example of community asking for stuff that they will later regret…

BTB is meant to be a casual family friendly playlist, having it be BR starts would skew it dramatically towards sweats and campy playstyles, it would also render vehicles even less useful than they are currently.

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Read the whole post before you start replying with nonsense

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Okay.
Rereads:

Yeah, my point still stands.
Make it it’s own playlist. As long as I’m not forced to play BR starts outside ranked I don’t care, but I think it funny people struggle this much with one of the best AR’s Halo has seen.

The whole point is the exact opposite.

These maps force people into small areas due to the claustrophobic cover.

They then use ARs which are easy to use. I’m not sure how you think someone who wants a precision weapon, finds the AR too difficult to use. It’s too easy to use.

I realise my posts above are lengthy but if you look at the discussion between myself and commanderCH above, you can see my point in more detail.

The posts are lengthy because I know the arguments people provide for AR starts and they are true for the situation with BTB as it is in infinite but the arguments do not stand for previous Halos or how it should be in infinite.

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Most Halo’s had auto starts before BR starts, it’s nothing new. At some point they introduce BR starts as a variant.

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At the very least, we should be able to veto AR starts in favour of BR starts in pre game lobbies.

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Firstly, well done on the constructive feedback.

Secondly, if you’re capable of reading and digesting more than one paragraph, feel free to read the whole thread, if not that’s ok too.

Thirdly, BRtard? So AR is a skillful weapon? Right, gotcha

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Reading the first post, how are the maps not designed for AR starts? Especially when they planned to have only AR starts?

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Just pace shots lmao…

I don’t normally agree with XEQoot but I agree everytime I play BTB I sit at weapon racks and punch them waiting for blue bar to fill up on BR.

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