I love how this is for feedback and anytime someone says they dislike zb you get a bunch of trolls saying “oh it makes it ‘fair’ and thats not fun” or “you just suck” ZB is not a great idea, but its not horrible, it reminds me of a rocket fight. The players that hide behind what they call skill, are just now able to spam a percision weapon.
> I love how this is for feedback and anytime someone says they dislike zb you get a bunch of trolls saying “oh it makes it ‘fair’ and thats not fun” or “you just suck” ZB is not a great idea, but its not horrible, it reminds me of a rocket fight. The players that hide behind what they call skill, are just now able to spam a percision weapon.
Spamming only exists when bloom is in play, and at mid/close range it beats pacing, making a fight devolve into a coin toss.
I don’t have a problem with people liking coin tosses, play them all you want. I have a problem with the coin tosses themselves.
Without bloom, everyone with two brain cells fires at the same rate, eliminating spamming. Since the DMR has virtually no spread in ZB, you actually have to aim at all ranges. That’s skill.
so coin tosses IF you spam, but bloom requires that you pase your shots and aim, requiring skill and not spamming
zb, you line up and tap the trigger as much as you possibly can = spamming.
You can say bloom is all random, but thats only if you spam and have no skill.
> so coin tosses IF you spam, but bloom requires that you pase your shots and aim, requiring skill and not spamming
>
> zb, you line up and tap the trigger as much as you possibly can = spamming.
>
> You can say bloom is all random, but thats only if you spam and have no skill.
Bloom only works at long ranges, where anything besides pacing is a guaranteed miss. If you only take long range into account, then sure, bloom increases the skill gap. It gives you more time to aim, however, reducing the skill required in that regard.
But you can’t ignore close and medium range, where spamming, at least from my experience, wins consistently more than half the time. The reasons for this are:
You can dish out more shots in the same time frame.
Your shots have a good chance of hitting the target despite the chance of a miss existing.
Reticle is larger so aiming is easier.
Therefore bloom decreases the skill gap at close/mid range, while only slowing down the game at long range (which is a matter of preference, not so much skill)
YES OH MY GOD I AGREE. At first I liked the idea of no bloom but when it hit matchmaking it gave me diabeetis lol 
DMR should be brought to a 4 shot with a much slower ROF.
Pistol also needs a MUCH slower ROF.
Increased speed is a MUST.
NO ARMOUR ABILITES
> DMR should be brought to a 4 shot with a much slower ROF.
>
> Pistol also needs a MUCH slower ROF.
>
> Increased speed is a MUST.
>
> NO ARMOUR ABILITES
This.
Zero Bloom in it’s current form is fun, and in my opinion better than default Reach by a mile. BUT! It could definitely use some tweaks to make it more skillful and fun. Such as the increased speed, dmg changes, RoF changes, etc.
bloom is random. no bloom is not. it’s hard to practice randomness. It’s like trying to practice luck, it doesn’t work, or everyone would have won the lottery by now. Then children will post the most obvious response to this, well learn to pace noob and you would be better. Well when you pace and some person that enjoys the randomness spams you kills you, does that make him the better player? No it doesn’t, you just died and lost your position on the map which eliminated the chance for a flag cap, ball set up, etc… All because someone spammed you and got LUCKY regardless of how well you paced your shots. No bloom, the only time you miss, is when you yourself actually miss the shot. I think most people that dislike no bloom have a clear misunderstanding of why they’re losing fights. It’s because you’re missing, and because you’ve become so accustomed to the reticle becoming the size of your face as you pull away on the trigger that you don’t understand how to aim with the smaller version outside of the first shot. For all the people that said it devolved tactics, if you’re getting simultaneously team shot, you’re probably not in a good position. You’re probably out in the open in the middle of the map, because this was fully possible with bloom because there was even a chance that if their whole team spammed you they’d all miss and you could hide before you died. No bloom encourages not only quicker reaction time, but also a sense of awareness of where you should and should not be on the map. Being where you should not be results in death. Prior to this being where you should not be resulted in maybe losing some shields because you couldn’t punish someone as quickly before they got away. This encourages chasing which is another bad habit in every halo game but vanilla reach. Vanilla reach is not and should not be called halo, it should be changed to Call of Duty: Bungie Ops, because it was made to appeal to that audience by combining the two games into one horrendous pile of dung. No bloom makes it playable, it doesn’t make it perfect. Put H1 back online, and the same people that complain about no bloom will complain that H1 is too fast paced, because they’re not good at it.
> so coin tosses IF you spam, but bloom requires that you pase your shots and aim, requiring skill and not spamming
>
> zb, you line up and tap the trigger as much as you possibly can = spamming.
>
> You can say bloom is all random, but thats only if you spam and have no skill.
Statements like this make me laugh. Okay, so you win the majority of your firefights by the sound of it, so you’re probably not bad at the game…
But when’s the last time you actually started up a custom game by yourself with a dummy target to test it out? I’ve done it quite a bit, and have tested the bloom on the DMR at all ranges. Yeah at medium range bloom made it so my shots went all over the place, but that was really only 60 - 70% of the time. The other 30 - 40% of the time, my shots would be perfectly (or damn near perfectly) grouped together as if I’d been pacing my shots, when I was in reality spamming the trigger. I’ve done these tests both by shooting at a dummy player on the map, as well as shooting the wall so I can actually see the patterns on the wall. It’s not completely random, otherwise there wouldn’t be superior players and terrible players in the game right now. But there is still a chance factor in there, and all the people wanting to eliminate the bloom are trying to do, is eliminate the chance factor, and create a faster flow to the game.
You make it sound like zero bloom makes it so the person that shoots first always wins the firefight. This is not the case. I have on countless occasions in Halo 1, 2, and 3, been shot first and still won the firefight. It’s called using cover to your advantage. If there isn’t cover nearby, why are you running out in the middle of the map when people are trying to kill you?
They could create ZB Playlist, I like ZB and you don’t. I go on ZB you go on TU Beta. Problem solved.
> bloom is random. no bloom is not. it’s hard to practice randomness. It’s like trying to practice luck, it doesn’t work, or everyone would have won the lottery by now. Then children will post the most obvious response to this, well learn to pace noob and you would be better. Well when you pace and some person that enjoys the randomness spams you kills you, does that make him the better player? No it doesn’t, you just died and lost your position on the map which eliminated the chance for a flag cap, ball set up, etc… All because someone spammed you and got LUCKY regardless of how well you paced your shots. No bloom, the only time you miss, is when you yourself actually miss the shot. I think most people that dislike no bloom have a clear misunderstanding of why they’re losing fights. It’s because you’re missing, and because you’ve become so accustomed to the reticle becoming the size of your face as you pull away on the trigger that you don’t understand how to aim with the smaller version outside of the first shot. For all the people that said it devolved tactics, if you’re getting simultaneously team shot, you’re probably not in a good position. You’re probably out in the open in the middle of the map, because this was fully possible with bloom because there was even a chance that if their whole team spammed you they’d all miss and you could hide before you died. No bloom encourages not only quicker reaction time, but also a sense of awareness of where you should and should not be on the map. Being where you should not be results in death. Prior to this being where you should not be resulted in maybe losing some shields because you couldn’t punish someone as quickly before they got away. This encourages chasing which is another bad habit in every halo game but vanilla reach. Vanilla reach is not and should not be called halo, it should be changed to Call of Duty: Bungie Ops, because it was made to appeal to that audience by combining the two games into one horrendous pile of dung. No bloom makes it playable, it doesn’t make it perfect. Put H1 back online, and the same people that complain about no bloom will complain that H1 is too fast paced, because they’re not good at it.
No there was still randomness in Halo: CE if you fired the pistol to fast, but the advantage was you didn’t have to fire nearly as slow to make your shots accurate, and the pistol was a three shot kill to the DMR’s five. Easily my favorite game in the series because kills came so much faster, yet it was so perfectly balanced in its design that the camp fest tactics of CoD were impossible in that game. No other entry in the Halo series has ever gotten my heart racing and adrenaline going through my system like the first game did. In fact, each entry in the series gets slower and slower, and Reach is no exception.
I’ve been saying this since the Reach beta, bleed through needs to come back, bloom needs to go or get an overhaul to not be so random, and the DMR needs to keep the same RoF, while making it a four shot kill instead of five. I don’t understand the whole, “make the DMR a four shot and give it a RoF cap”, if you’re going to do that, you might as well just keep it a five shot kill…
> > bloom is random. no bloom is not. it’s hard to practice randomness. It’s like trying to practice luck, it doesn’t work, or everyone would have won the lottery by now. Then children will post the most obvious response to this, well learn to pace noob and you would be better. Well when you pace and some person that enjoys the randomness spams you kills you, does that make him the better player? No it doesn’t, you just died and lost your position on the map which eliminated the chance for a flag cap, ball set up, etc… All because someone spammed you and got LUCKY regardless of how well you paced your shots. No bloom, the only time you miss, is when you yourself actually miss the shot. I think most people that dislike no bloom have a clear misunderstanding of why they’re losing fights. It’s because you’re missing, and because you’ve become so accustomed to the reticle becoming the size of your face as you pull away on the trigger that you don’t understand how to aim with the smaller version outside of the first shot. For all the people that said it devolved tactics, if you’re getting simultaneously team shot, you’re probably not in a good position. You’re probably out in the open in the middle of the map, because this was fully possible with bloom because there was even a chance that if their whole team spammed you they’d all miss and you could hide before you died. No bloom encourages not only quicker reaction time, but also a sense of awareness of where you should and should not be on the map. Being where you should not be results in death. Prior to this being where you should not be resulted in maybe losing some shields because you couldn’t punish someone as quickly before they got away. This encourages chasing which is another bad habit in every halo game but vanilla reach. Vanilla reach is not and should not be called halo, it should be changed to Call of Duty: Bungie Ops, because it was made to appeal to that audience by combining the two games into one horrendous pile of dung. No bloom makes it playable, it doesn’t make it perfect. Put H1 back online, and the same people that complain about no bloom will complain that H1 is too fast paced, because they’re not good at it.
>
> No there was still randomness in Halo: CE if you fired the pistol to fast, but the advantage was you didn’t have to fire nearly as slow to make your shots accurate, and the pistol was a three shot kill to the DMR’s five. Easily my favorite game in the series because kills came so much faster, yet it was so perfectly balanced in its design that the camp fest tactics of CoD were impossible in that game. No other entry in the Halo series has ever gotten my heart racing and adrenaline going through my system like the first game did. In fact, each entry in the series gets slower and slower, and Reach is no exception.
>
> I’ve been saying this since the Reach beta, bleed through needs to come back, bloom needs to go or get an overhaul to not be so random, and the DMR needs to keep the same RoF, while making it a four shot kill instead of five. I don’t understand the whole, “make the DMR a four shot and give it a RoF cap”, if you’re going to do that, you might as well just keep it a five shot kill…
that’s because every weapon did something in h1, except the needler. I’d like to see the plasma rifle become worth picking up again like it was in halo 1. halo 1’s fast pace shooting also discouraged nade spam that is also most people’s favorite now. Everyone that doesn’t know how to play the game can easily get kills by spamming grenades, that’s why the grenade count got lowered. However they should make the nade timers go back to what they were in halo 1 because it still allowed for pre nades, but discouraged spamming because they were easily dodged when thrown right at a player during a fight. The pistol was only random if you held the trigger down. If you hold the trigger down then you’re not good anyways.
ZB isn’t bad its just really fast pase. And although I like it alot, Sometimes I just don’t feel like getting that wired into a game. Thats one reason why I still want at least 85% bloom.
^ I agree. I think percision weapons had bloom to begin with to simulate the fact that it takes well placed and timed shots to be precise. decreasing rate of fire would simulate the in game character taking the time it takes to line up the next shot, while also providing game balance, if not just make the gun more balanced.
the only reason bloom is put into games is to try and prevent spaming the fire trigger with a rapid fire (the BR was triple burst so it controlled rate of fire for you to mantain accuracy) or it controls the players actions, allowing for more diverse ways of combat to pay off, such as going prone to reduce gun recoil and prevent bloom, and prevent you from running and jumping in circles while landing perfect head shots on the guy your straffing around moving just as crazily as you.
if you don’t decrease bloom when you crouch, and you don’t increase bloom when you jump or straff, than the only thing it does is slow down game pace. since Halo doesn’t hinder accuracy through your movement, it doesn’t seem to make sense for bloom to exist. you could just instead control the rate of fire to do the same thing and make gameplay more rewarding in the long run. it is not rewarding when your shots don’t go where you want them to, it feels like luck when you get a head shot from afar, and that feels non imersive.
either add bloom for everything and totally change the game, or don’t have bloom and control guns rate of fire to create the balance. those are the two ways I see it working, and if you add bloom for movement and benifits to accuracy for standing still and crouching, then the game is gonna feel totally different. if ya want, you could make a seperate playlist that experiments with the bloom (effecting bloom as you move, jump, straff, and crouch), and the other that has no bloom and changes rate of fire, just to see which is really the most immersive (but you may have to change rate of fire with the bloom playlist too, since some guns will be more easy to use while standing still then perhaps the AR or Plasma weapons)
> Spamming only exists when bloom is in play, and at mid/close range it beats pacing, making a fight devolve into a coin toss.
How is it any -Yoinking!- different now? Spin for me this logic which somehow suggests that luck doesn’t exist now that one simple mechanic has been removed? Taken to the fullest and it suggests that Halo should logically be nothing more than two players facing off with snipers pre-focused on the head, leaving it up to nothing, and absolutely nothing, more than mad reflexes to decide who lives and dies. Anything else (movement, jumping, aiming, different guns, different spawns, players beyond your LOS, online play, less than one thousand repeats to provide statistical reliability) and you leave yourself entirely open to luck, so do stop this silly charade of “herp-da-derp, bloom is bad because it makes bad players beat me!” You haven’t the ground to stand on.
> I don’t have a problem with people liking coin tosses, play them all you want. I have a problem with the coin tosses themselves.
>
> Without bloom, everyone with two brain cells fires at the same rate, eliminating spamming. Since the DMR has virtually no spread in ZB, you actually have to aim at all ranges. That’s skill.
But it’s less skill than would be required if you needed to adjust your ROF to best handle the situation. From my own experience, not being one to try to scape-goat features for poor performance, my ability to adapt my ROF to what the situation demands often puts me in a far better position than those that cannot do the same. They loose shots, not having the control I do, they loose kills, not having the control I do, and they loose games, not having the control I do. Now granted, they do occasionally get the better of me with a lucky shot here and a fortuitous death there, but being occasional that doesn’t change anything meaningful about my play time nor compells me to post about how non-predetermined gameplay (ie. that without luck) is somehow bad for a game, whose only joy comes from not knowing quite how it’s going to end.
Rate of fire for the pistol needs to be slowed down A LOT. I feel like we don’t even need the other weapons with the dmr and the pistol like this.
> 100% agree! Zero Bloom turns the game into “See first, shoot first, win.” Now, that may suit some gamers but some one like me who plots and is patient is disadvantaged. I’m not awesome by any stretch, but I have a 2.0 k2d ratio, so it’s fair to say I;'m not garbage. Hating the zero bloom so far. Maybe I will learn to adapt, but I hope it’s abandoned or reduced (increased?).
Zero bloom is gonna have its own playlist you don’t have to play it.But I will say that the pistol completely owns the dmr at any range in both 85% and 0 bloom.Session data
yes, the ROF control offers you an advantage, and requires a memorization of timed intervals between shots to determine your % of getting head shots or hitting your desired target of all based on their position inside of your reticle. we all know exactly what your saying, and I agree that it creates a more timing oriented combat system that rewards you for having patience and percision.
that said, you obviously either avoided or skimed over my last post. It doesn’t work for what exactly it was put in to do. It was designed in reach to specificaly level the playing field for new comers to the game, while veterans would still be getting used to it. it also prevented spamming percision weapons and the AR to allow more time for error and allow for a bigger skill gap.
right now, it’s simply memorized timing that allows you to be percise, a skill in and of itself, unrelated to the combat system or percision. when you get head shots with well time ROF, you feel good about your timed percision, rather than the hit. the hit is not a direct reward, the higher % is, and a hit only partially conveys that your timing was good, because their is still bloom with well timed percision.
when you take bloom out completely, you are rewarded per shot, because the game now does exactly what you tell it too. regardless of the fact that it takes skill to time your shots, it’s a different skill then the aiming itself, and so it not only slows down the pace of combat by forcing you to control your ROF, but gives you a second factor to worry about with each weapon.
while this can create a bigger skill gap in some ways, the simple fact remains, zero bloom leaves less room for error, creating a faster paced combat, more rewarding and thus more immersive gameplay, and less frustration and confusing variables to worry about over all.
reticle bloom is acceptable when it is used as an incentive to control tactics and play styles, not when it is used to make shooting a ranged gun tedious for veterans of the franchise that never had to worry about it before, just to even the playing field for newcomers.
> > No bloom i think is bad, i get like one hit killed with it… Its too powerfull i think 343i should slow the fire rate down and have somewhat bloom percentage on it.
>
> Zero Bloom to have a percentage of bloom on it?
>
> o.O
Mind goes supernova, becomes a black hole and destroys all logical sense left in the universe
are you kidding me? zero bloom separates skilled players from the ones that cant strafe and shoot at the same time (bk’s). bloom is ridiculous. you are a super soldier, the recoil of a rifle should not even phase you. now a 50 cal sniper rifle should have bloom due to re coil because it’s powerful as hell. but screw that when it comes to the dmr, assault rifle, or magnum ect. zero bloom was the way it was for halo 1 2 3 and even odst.