No AA's in competitive play. @oOMrCheesyOo

You closed this thread, so this is just to reply to your post since this forum doesn’t allow messaging. And yeah, I felt it had to be replied to despite forum rules.

> I’m not going to read this thread’s entirety, it’s mostly nonsensical bickering. However, I’ll do my best to answer your question, OP. AAs aren’t in 343’s ‘pro’ gametype variant because they’re a loose-cannon: They’re random. Being able to control the outcome is what defines a competitive game. Of course you can have randomness within the bounds of outcome-controlling, but once randomness begins to seep out and consume the game is no longer fit for competitive play.
> AAs aren’t inherently random, but the fact that players can choose which AA to spawn with is causing the randomness. I’ll explain. Many people see Halo-with-AAs as the equivalent of chess, whilst Halo-without-AAs is the equivalent of checkers; Both games, checkers and chess, are competitive games, but it’s undeniable that chess is the more strategic of the two. Chess is the better game, especially for competitive play. What’s often overlooked when comparing Halo-with-AAs to chess is that in chess each side has the exact number of unique pieces: eight pawns, two rooks, two knights, two bishops, and a king and queen. The randomness in having AAs in-play occurs when the playing-pieces aren’t set in stone, but are player controlled; The Blue Team may have three active-camo players, and one jet-packer, whilst the Red Team may have two jet-packers, one active-camo player, and one Promethean-vision player. If we were to relate this situation back to chess it would be like letting players choose which pieces are placed on the board and played with. Some rather silly, OP, situations would surely occur, such as the second-row being filled with queens rather than pawns.
> Another thing to note is that, contrary to popular belief, competitive players play for the love of the game. In other words, they derive enjoyment from playing the game. Other players don’t play the game, but instead play some imaginary game within the game; seeing who can get the most betrayals in a match for instance. That’s the difference between competitive players and those who aren’t. So when the game becomes frustrating, or loses the fun factor due to game mechanics being abused they simply have to go. We’re not some alien breed who likes every game-mechanism that “makes the game harder”. Though I’m sure such people exist…

I’m replying to the bold. There’s one important difference with halo, or as an extension, any rts or roleplaying game: ideally, there is neither a pawn or a queen, but a series of rooks, knights, and bishops, which are all roughly equivalent to eachother; like having loadouts each with their own primary weapon where the dmr/br/ar options in slayerpro are the equivalent to the rook/bishop/knight in chess. AAs just add another level of variety, offering a more nuanced meta as people get used to it… if things can be ballanced appropriately.

ASsuming the new AAs go well, I can see the system being adopted into competitions, and to some extent I think it should be; there’s a lot of potential here, as you implied. I agree it is hard to get right, especially over a span of small to large maps, but 343i offering 3 different primary weapons is essentially the same thing: each weapon or item has its niche.

I’ll try to see about closing this thread, but I’m not sure if regular members have that option here.

edit: and they don’t.

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-Yoink-. That is so weird… :slight_smile:

Unless you can set limits on how many players can use AAs, players will run all Jetpack or all Camo.

The reason class-based shooters like Team Fortress works at a professional level is because teams mostly consist of 2 Scouts, 2 Soldiers, a Demoman, a Medic (with some variation if need be. One Solder is used as a Medic’s main patient, the Scouts are used as utility classes, and the Medics and Demoman never change due to their power). Class limits make it so teams cannot be made up entirely of Medic/Heavy combos, or entire teams of Spies and Engineers. Halo does not have these limits, so competitive play will never work unless honor rules are used.

Rooks, Knights, and Bishops are no where near equivalent in Chess. Rooks are perhaps the most important of the three; especially during end-game. Although, respectively, you did match up the DMR with the Rook and from gameplay I’ve seen, that’s the only link in your analogy I can make (i.e. the DMR appears to be the dominating rifle.)