Since everyone (including 343) is unsure about the overall time to kills and other specfications of H4 weapons please see the following link:
(credit goes to K2Five and HaloCouncil)
Physical proof that BR/Carbine is underpowerd and the DMR is overpowered. The fact that if the DMR was taken out it would restore balance/order. The fact that the BR was 4 shot in H2/H3 (predecessors’) and now in H4 its 5?? The fact that carbine is in the same boat with BR. The fact that…
343 read
343 read
I’ve been running customs with friends after the removal of Team Slayer Pro and we set damage to 110% to make br 4 shot and dmr 5 shot, dmr still dominates the br, and I can tell you why.
The br was never the most versatile weapon in h2 and h3 because it could 4 shot, it’s because it was more accurate than any other non power weapon that you could spawn with. The reason the dmr dominates is because auto aim kicks in from nearly twice as far as carbine, br, and light rifle. In addition the fire rate is faster. So when 343 told us that dmr was going to be better long range and br better mid to short it was a bold faced lie.
Now I don’t feel like br would have to return to its former glory in order to make Halo fun to me again, although for nostalgic purposes it’d feel nice, Halo can become fun again by balancing out their weapons and mechanics.
Easy option is to slighly nerf the DMR in some way or another if you like the current kill times of the other weapons as they are.
However for faster kill times I’d say the above and reducing sheild strength (but i’d also up sheld recovery speed).
I wouldn’t start buffing other weapons as this will likely mess them up even more - its 85% balanced at the moment, sorting the DMR will get it close enough and throw the BS into POD or nerf it.
Halo Reach DMR + Halo 3 BR + Halo 2 Carbine = Balance
There really was no reason to make the BR 5 shots with 36 bullets and the DMR 5 shots with 14 bullets…
You see, you all say that the DMR needs to be nerfed, but none of you even consider upping the range of the ARs to compete with the other weapons?
For one: The Assault Rifles have far more competition, as the majority of the power weapons in the game (and even other pesky weapons/combos such as the EMP-headshot or, more notably the Boltshot) all function effectively in close-mid ranges, where the ARs are ONLY capable of fighting. Long range CANNOT be achieved with an assault rifle, but the marksman rifles CAN be used in CQB (and in CQB can still win against ARs due to fast kill-speeds from external sources (such as the infamous grenade+one shot, or melee-headshot). the ARs must compete with the two shotguns, the three melee weapons, the explosive weapons (all three launchers, the light launchers), the boltshot, the SAW, the laser are in optimal range for grenades AND can be taken down fairly easy in their own territory by their primary competition, the marksman rifles. All of this competition, and yet the main thing they are supposed to beat can still pretty easily take them out anyway. If that’s the case, why bring a weapon that can’t work at every range, suffers from more competition and terrible magazine-kill efficiency, when the kill-speed between the two weapons is so hilariously close? You basically get given an extra 5% chance of winning in CQB for the price of being the underdog of every other weapon in the game, save one.
So while you’re arguing about the marksman rifles all being imbalanced, you seem to be forgetting that theres three other spawn weapons which are even worse overall and are in more need of improvement than the balance of the marksman rifles, who have far less competition, can be used at any range except for extreme long ranges (where there only competition is the Sniper weapons, which means that they can only be outranged by three weapons), and have insta-kill capability one unshielded targets, which are very frequent in the Halo 4 matchmaking, with the invention of more ingenious ways of keeping the enemy team without shield for a significant time.
ARs need to be buffed to make them a fair choice over the omnipotent marksman rifles, this can either be done by increasing their effective range so that they can compete and outmatch the marksman weapons at higher ranges, or a flat damage increase, which in turn would make over 80% of the power weapons significantly worse, and a number useless unless camping around corners or sneaking up on people (which the AR could do then anyway). it’s either that, or nerf ALL the marksman weapons, which would in turn make the bridge between power weapon and spawn weapon higher, and make it even more difficult to come back after loss of power weapons. It’s better to balance to focus on three spawning weapons instead of two, and frankly, it’s pretty damn obvious that the ARs aren’t widely used in comparison to the marksman weapons, you don’t even need telemetry, just look at the loadouts of 10 people you play with, are they carrying an automatic weapon? No, they use a marksman rifle (usually a light rifle, DMR or BR) and bring along a Boltshot or Plasma Pistol (usually on vehicle maps). You would expect assault rifles to be used 50% of the time as a primary, you could possible drop that to 40% (as there are 3 ARs and 4 MRs), but even then, currently it’s nowhere near that mark, and I assure you that the number difference cannot be put down to coincidence.
Focus on balancing the ARs before you go whining about how your precious BR/carbine is outmatched (barely) by the DMR, AR users have to deal with that while also having to deal with being outmatched by nearly every other weapon in the game.
the ARs are fine. Ever played this game on LANs? The AR beats every single midrange gun here. It’s a beast.
Most people play online where, of course, the first 3 or 4 bullets never register.
Don’t fix what’s not broken.
The only broken thing is the DMR. It needs a RoF nerf.
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> You see, you all say that the DMR needs to be nerfed, but none of you even consider upping the range of the ARs to compete with the other weapons?
>
> For one: The Assault Rifles have far more competition, as the majority of the power weapons in the game (and even other pesky weapons/combos such as the EMP-headshot or, more notably the Boltshot) all function effectively in close-mid ranges, where the ARs are ONLY capable of fighting. Long range CANNOT be achieved with an assault rifle, but the marksman rifles CAN be used in CQB (and in CQB can still win against ARs due to fast kill-speeds from external sources (such as the infamous grenade+one shot, or melee-headshot). the ARs must compete with the two shotguns, the three melee weapons, the explosive weapons (all three launchers, the light launchers), the boltshot, the SAW, the laser are in optimal range for grenades AND can be taken down fairly easy in their own territory by their primary competition, the marksman rifles. All of this competition, and yet the main thing they are supposed to beat can still pretty easily take them out anyway. If that’s the case, why bring a weapon that can’t work at every range, suffers from more competition and terrible magazine-kill efficiency, when the kill-speed between the two weapons is so hilariously close? You basically get given an extra 5% chance of winning in CQB for the price of being the underdog of every other weapon in the game, save one.
>
> So while you’re arguing about the marksman rifles all being imbalanced, you seem to be forgetting that theres three other spawn weapons which are even worse overall and are in more need of improvement than the balance of the marksman rifles, who have far less competition, can be used at any range except for extreme long ranges (where there only competition is the Sniper weapons, which means that they can only be outranged by three weapons), and have insta-kill capability one unshielded targets, which are very frequent in the Halo 4 matchmaking, with the invention of more ingenious ways of keeping the enemy team without shield for a significant time.
>
> ARs need to be buffed to make them a fair choice over the omnipotent marksman rifles, this can either be done by increasing their effective range so that they can compete and outmatch the marksman weapons at higher ranges, or a flat damage increase, which in turn would make over 80% of the power weapons significantly worse, and a number useless unless camping around corners or sneaking up on people (which the AR could do then anyway). it’s either that, or nerf ALL the marksman weapons, which would in turn make the bridge between power weapon and spawn weapon higher, and make it even more difficult to come back after loss of power weapons. It’s better to balance to focus on three spawning weapons instead of two, and frankly, it’s pretty damn obvious that the ARs aren’t widely used in comparison to the marksman weapons, you don’t even need telemetry, just look at the loadouts of 10 people you play with, are they carrying an automatic weapon? No, they use a marksman rifle (usually a light rifle, DMR or BR) and bring along a Boltshot or Plasma Pistol (usually on vehicle maps). You would expect assault rifles to be used 50% of the time as a primary, you could possible drop that to 40% (as there are 3 ARs and 4 MRs), but even then, currently it’s nowhere near that mark, and I assure you that the number difference cannot be put down to coincidence.
>
> Focus on balancing the ARs before you go whining about how your precious BR/carbine is outmatched (barely) by the DMR, AR users have to deal with that while also having to deal with being outmatched by nearly every other weapon in the game.
that’s -Yoinking!- stupid. maybe if ARs took some SKILL to use. but otherwise, i don’t want a moron like yourself to spray and pray and beat a user that actually has to aim. the AR should only be on par with precision rifles, if it is consistent, has lower aim assist, and deals bonus headshot damage.
The only nerf the DMR needs is aim magnetism reduced. Every other rifle needs a buff. Also the DMR would be a harder weapon to use regardless if de-scoping returned.
343 read and learn.
And i know what you’re thinking, no, adding bloom to DMR is not a solution, I’ve have enough of spamming lucky kids.
Just slow down the rate of fire.
The AR and other Automatics are perfect as they are AS LONG as other precision weapons do not get buffed, the DMR is a joke the fact it can take on an AR at CQC and has a .2 second advantage over the AR in CQC is unbalanced and needs to be addressed.
Automatics have their place in this game, they are no longer the weapon you start with and immediatly try to drop for something else. They require skill and wit to use, get close to your enemy and deliver the killing blow at the correct time - to say its just spray and pray shows stupidity and frankly just means you likely got spanked by an auto user.
> that’s -Yoinking!- stupid. maybe if ARs took some SKILL to use. but otherwise, i don’t want a moron like yourself to spray and pray and beat a user that actually has to aim. the AR should only be on par with precision rifles, if it is consistent, has lower aim assist, and deals bonus headshot damage.
So what you’re saying is that the weapon that can only work in one range and is outmatched by virtually every other power weapon in the game (and has no benefit against others like the Marksman Rifles have against weapons like the SAW and shotgun) should only be on par with the marksman rifles, which can engage at any range, kill swiftly in close, and can outmatch some power weapons, as well as having less competition in their ranges? That’s -Yoinking!- stupid.
I’m sorry, I thought the idea of the ARs was to work in close better than an MR. Fact of the matter is: an AR should be able to spray and pray in CQB and win against the Marksman rifles, and at mid-range, I should only have to do as much work as I do with my Carbine to be on-par.
Oh, I think you seem to think we as a completely unintelligent fool who says we should remove all spread increase on the AR so it can fight at any range you can see a target at, is that right? I’m not stupid, the AR is made for close-mid range, I’m suggesting lowering the bloom increase and recovery slightly (maybe 20%), as well as slightly increasing the magnetism and tendency to hit (raise by 5-10%) so that it can fight at the mid-range marker to an extent where kill-speeds are close to marksman rifles, getting two extra bullets out per accurate burst would make fighting at the mid-range with DMR and Carbine users reasonably fair. If you think it’s unfair that the AR kills better in CQB and mid-range, you clearly have no concept of weapon balance, and I suppose next you’ll say that the sword should have to take multiple hits, so that it’s fair. Like the sword, the AR is range-limited, and suffers from a wide array of competition, all of which can fairly swiftly kill you the instant you’re out of your comfort zone. The DMR and marksman rifles are not range limited, and have significantly less competition, as such they should be significantly worse at the close-mid range when compared to the ARs, who cannot engage that sniper pinning the team down, or long-range-bully a ghost or banshee to run into hiding.
Also, @Lunarwolf: The AR should take no more wit and skill than the Marksman rifles should to kill in its optimum range (which is not that much it seems, considering the number of Marksman rifle users and the capability of half-witted players with slow reactions to get headshots at the mid range), the marksman rifles have utility, that’s their advantage, damage should not be an additional advantage over the ARs. As a matter of fact, the ARs should be the ones with the additional damage, to compensate for the lack of long-range engaging and being forced to move into ranges where there are many, many power weapons which can kill you off.
Yes the DMR is a Lil OP but I don’t mind at all and I don’t even user the thing. Normally I would but I find that the carbine is a lot more fun. I’m currently having fun chasing my BR Pistol and Carbine commendations. I don’t care if my enemy is using the DMR or not.
Now when it comes to mid range swat the BR is super OP and I never read about ppl QQing about that. I’ve noticed at least two double kils with one burst while using it, for swat if your at close range you don’t even have to sweep snipe, just swing and pray and I’ll fire 3 shots all at the same level which in my case is head level, so even if I miss my timing I stil have 2 other bullets that have a chance of taking the player out. I’ve noticed this when I get startled and swing 100+ degrees for the swing shot knowing its my only chance. It’s even possible to get a triple kill with one burst just go YouTube halo 4 myth busters.
Also the LR beats the DMR hands down if used correctly, it just has a lack of ammo. I don’t mind using the ammo support upgrade if need be but I usually run with stability since the LR has next to no recoil when ur shot while zoomed while using stability, whereas all the other precision loadout weps have much more kick or gun rise, whatever word(s) you wanna use with stability.
Now it can be tricky to get that 4 shot kill with this depending on what control scheme you use, but I love fish stick lol so I enjoy this weapon a lot. Just land that 1 scoped shot before your kill shot and bye bye 5SK and hello 4SK.
But the DMR still is a better weapon when it comes to the bigger picture, the LR has the 4SK over the DMR but that’s it.
I’m not trying to justify the DMR and keeping it as is, i actually would enjoy a tiny bit more bloom to make me space out my shots kinda like reach, but I don’t wanna be usin the reach DMR by any means.
> The only nerf the DMR needs is aim magnetism reduced. <mark>Every other rifle needs a buff</mark>. Also the <mark>DMR would be a harder weapon to use regardless if de-scoping returned</mark>.
This is just my opinion, but I have to disagree with you man. The main problem with the dmr is that it shoots fast and is accurate when it should only be the former.
> Halo Reach DMR + Halo 3 BR + Halo 2 Carbine = Balance
I have never played halo 2, but im fine with how the carbine is and the br, but the dmr suggestion is a good point. I think the only change they should make is making the bloom on the 3 shot go to the size of the sniper rifles bloom for a second to punish spamming
> > Halo Reach DMR + Halo 3 BR + Halo 2 Carbine = Balance
>
> I have never played halo 2, but im fine with how the carbine is and the br, but the dmr suggestion is a good point. I think the only change they should make is making the bloom on the 3 shot go to the size of the sniper rifles bloom for a second to punish spamming
I will never endorse Bloom. Ever! What I mean is these weapons minimum kill times are perfect. Also the DMRs aim assist range was perfect back in Reach. I think the No bloom DMR would be perfectly balanced against a zero spread Halo 3 BR/ Halo 2 Carbine.
1.6s, 1.53s, 1.4s.
Bloom is not a solution.
It just promotes lucky spams and from medium - close range really has no effect at all because the target will always be larger then your crosshair
Just slow down the rate of fire of about 0.2-0.3 seconds and it’ll be fine.