New Warzone Variant for Big Fire teams

Im sure by now everyone has gone against the 12 man fireteams that involve 12 people working together and talking. Which is fine, thats their initative. However I’m getting sick to death of them just farming kills against my haphazard team where no one is talking or is in a party of like 3 people. They can clearly go for the objective and end the game but they dont, so its either 20 minutes of being spawnkilled or quit and lose my RP/XP boost with the possibility of being banned.

A solution to this is having Warzone playlist where the maximum amount of friends you can join with is 3 or 4 but also keep the current playlist where 12 people that are working together can play against other big groups. Sometimes i frankly just want to mute everyone and play a bit of halo with a couple of mates casually? What do you guys think?

I think 343 will never do that. The matchmaking times in the playlist for big fireteams would be longer, so no one would play it. Big teams only option for playing would be BTB, but then, people could ask for restrictions on party size on BTB as well and suddenly no one would be able to play with more than four friends, except for custom games.

I think there are better solutions for kill farming in Warzone, like offering bonus REQ points and XP for teams that quickly destroyed the enemy core.

I think that fire team size should be considered in pairing algorithms. When possible it should try to match teams of comparable size, but an entire separate play list is going to result in much longer wait times.

> 2533274832395970;1:
> Im sure by now everyone has gone against the 12 man fireteams that involve 12 people working together and talking. Which is fine, thats their initative. However I’m getting sick to death of them just farming kills against my haphazard team where no one is talking or is in a party of like 3 people. They can clearly go for the objective and end the game but they dont, so its either 20 minutes of being spawnkilled or quit and lose my RP/XP boost with the possibility of being banned.
>
> A solution to this is having Warzone playlist where the maximum amount of friends you can join with is 3 or 4 but also keep the current playlist where 12 people that are working together can play against other big groups. Sometimes i frankly just want to mute everyone and play a bit of halo with a couple of mates casually? What do you guys think?

I have not encountered the farming of kills yet. But I have been in matches that we get steamrolled within 3 minutes by organised 12 man teams. I will be blocking all these players going forward so I won’t get matched with them again. If enough people do that their days of playing Warzone will come to an end or at least greatly reduced. IF IF Blocking works like it is suppose to .

A “Freelancer” playlist where 1-2 player fireteams are the max size would be nice.

343 won’t do this. Just fight fire with fire.

> 2603643534597848;5:
> A “Freelancer” playlist where 1-2 player fireteams are the max size would be nice.

No-one apart full teams will play “regular” warzone then, so same kind of achievement as adding a full-teams-only-warzone.

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> > 2603643534597848;5:
> > A “Freelancer” playlist where 1-2 player fireteams are the max size would be nice.
>
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> No-one apart full teams will play “regular” warzone then, so same kind of achievement as adding a full-teams-only-warzone.

Exactly! that is the point. Randoms will be playing against randoms.

> 2533274854871025;7:
> > 2603643534597848;5:
> > A “Freelancer” playlist where 1-2 player fireteams are the max size would be nice.
>
>
> No-one apart full teams will play “regular” warzone then, so same kind of achievement as adding a full-teams-only-warzone.

Similar, very much so. However, any size team can play the default, only 1-2 players may enter the Thunderdome, I mean, Freelance-Zone.

So, fireteams of 3 or greater cannot join the new list where as only large teams may join the original proposed.

Note: Freelance Assault, as “it should be” referred to as, would be WZA only. The idea is to satiate the need for 1 or 2 players to play quick games of WZ without feeling overwhelmed by teams. WZ is a bit too vast to restrict to 2 players per FT, Assault is focused for the purpose of 1-2 players on the field of the chaos.

I don’t think this will work, this will only divide the popular in warzone, sure it may work for a while, but it will start taking longer to find games. There is no cure, I have been on teams of randoms who spawn trapped the enemy because we had mics, randoms and we came together, spawn trapping is sometimes an accident, sometimes its just your team fighting hard enough to defend the core, the enemy want it, but they can not breach it.

I know you don’t want to hear it, but the answer is play in a team, it is a team game after all, and there is a reason they are winning.

Just remember, it only take 1 base capture to end a spawn trap, some maps are easier to do that others, but none of them are impossible, just don’t think you can do it with a power weapon or you will just upset yourself, learn how they trap, find the weak spot and exploit it. Camo, taking your time, and over confident enemy’s are your friend. Heck, even the scout hog will do the trick. Once your behind the trap pick your target, side bases are easier, less marines, but all marines are 1 shot head shots. If your do use a scout hog, just remember the enemy likely saw you leave, so don’t go right to a base, try to throw them off, dump the hog away from the base you want and wait.

And make the game not worth it to the trappers, they are looking to boost power weapon kills most of the time, I see so many people run out 1 by 1, I have even seen people spawn a mantis when trapped, that did not end well. If you hang back, they have to come into the base making it easier to kill them, they are easier to see and you have more people to pour fire on them, but your also slowing down the kills, they want fast kills, they don’t want to have to fight for them, if they have to push deep into the base, risk dying and the game is going to take longer to complete they will end it.
Why spend 25 minutes slowly killing a spawn trapped enemy, it defeats the purpose of the trap. If it were me, I would end the game, get into a new one where I can kill fast.

> 2535422603742100;3:
> I think that fire team size should be considered in pairing algorithms. When possible it should try to match teams of comparable size, but an entire separate play list is going to result in much longer wait times.

Being a part of the front runner of Spartan Companies, I like this idea. I speak for myself but I’m sure others can agree. You simply cannot make two playlists where it’s Team Vs. Team and Randoms Vs. Randoms because this will kill one of the playlists. It’s better to just have a behind the scenes algorithm if anything.

> 2690096563135647;11:
> > 2535422603742100;3:
> >
>
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> You simply cannot make two playlists where it’s Team Vs. Team and Randoms Vs. Randoms because this will kill one of the playlists. It’s better to just have a behind the scenes algorithm if anything.

If randoms learn that they must play WZ with a team to have fun, they either join a team or quit. So you can still constrict, even kill, the playlist by doing nothing.

Full Team vs Full Team is too far one way for sure, having always ranked FFA as the only place to play “solo” is too far the other.

> 2533274929611012;10:
> Just remember, it only take 1 base capture to end a spawn trap, some maps are easier to do that others, but none of them are impossible, just don’t think you can do it with a power weapon or you will just upset yourself, learn how they trap, find the weak spot and exploit it. Camo, taking your time, and over confident enemy’s are your friend. Heck, even the scout hog will do the trick. Once your behind the trap pick your target, side bases are easier, less marines, but all marines are 1 shot head shots. If your do use a scout hog, just remember the enemy likely saw you leave, so don’t go right to a base, try to throw them off, dump the hog away from the base you want and wait.
>
> And make the game not worth it to the trappers, they are looking to boost power weapon kills most of the time, I see so many people run out 1 by 1, I have even seen people spawn a mantis when trapped, that did not end well. If you hang back, they have to come into the base making it easier to kill them, they are easier to see and you have more people to pour fire on them, but your also slowing down the kills, they want fast kills, they don’t want to have to fight for them, if they have to push deep into the base, risk dying and the game is going to take longer to complete they will end it.
> Why spend 25 minutes slowly killing a spawn trapped enemy, it defeats the purpose of the trap. If it were me, I would end the game, get into a new one where I can kill fast.

I dont mean to sound rude but it sounds like you haven’t been on the receiving end of one of these organised 12 man spawn trap killing machines…if they are any good, there’s no way you are getting out of base in any vehicle, and if you do manage to escape and capture a base, its only a matter of minutes before its recapped and you’re back to the spawn trap. The best option is to quit in the scenario but the ban system stops a lot of ppl doing this also…there really needs to be a surrender option that activates for this scenario.

To be fair, I’ve been on both ends of the stick with this…after losing many games queuing solo in Warzone and being on the receiving end of spawn killing stomping squads, myself and a few friends decided to squad together. It started out with 5 or 6 of us playing and we were able to tip the balance in our favour and win most games…it has now increased to a squad of over 20 players ready to play Warzone so we always have a 12 man team ready to stomp, and I’ve never been on the losing side when we party up as a 12 man team. The difference between our 12 man team and others is that we don’t spawn kill, and the team goes for the core all the time…most games last less than 10 minutes with most kills usually below 10. Admittedly most of us are in the same Achilles spartan company, however I personally take no enjoyment spawn killing so as long as the opponents don’t put up much of a fight or come running straight out of base then its pretty painless and over really quickly. As a side note…I personally find the whole thing a bit boring as its not a contest by any stretch of the imagination, but it gives me a nice boost in quick REQ pts for an hour or so.

The problem isn’t 12 man teams…the problem is the 12 man teams that spawn kill and exploiting the system that allows it to happen.

edit:
Also please note that staying inside your base will not prevent a 12 man team intent on farming kills…they will come with ghosts, camo and literally destroy you at your spawn inside your base without going for the core so it is even worse and more painful. This has happened several times to me and its not nice to be on the receiving end. A spartan company that I know that do this are called “The Sauna” which are a team of high level players (mainly Onyx and Champion level).

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> > 2690096563135647;11:
> > > 2535422603742100;3:
> > >
> >
> >
> > You simply cannot make two playlists where it’s Team Vs. Team and Randoms Vs. Randoms because this will kill one of the playlists. It’s better to just have a behind the scenes algorithm if anything.
>
>
> If randoms learn that they must play WZ with a team to have fun, they either join a team or quit. So you can still constrict, even kill, the playlist by doing nothing.
>
> Full Team vs Full Team is too far one way for sure, having always ranked FFA as the only place to play “solo” is too far the other.

We somewhat agree, offer your ideas for a solution because I seriously want this not to be an issue. :stuck_out_tongue:

> 2728296738561752;13:
> > 2533274929611012;10:
> > Just remember, it only take 1 base capture to end a spawn trap, some maps are easier to do that others, but none of them are impossible, just don’t think you can do it with a power weapon or you will just upset yourself, learn how they trap, find the weak spot and exploit it. Camo, taking your time, and over confident enemy’s are your friend. Heck, even the scout hog will do the trick. Once your behind the trap pick your target, side bases are easier, less marines, but all marines are 1 shot head shots. If your do use a scout hog, just remember the enemy likely saw you leave, so don’t go right to a base, try to throw them off, dump the hog away from the base you want and wait.
> >
> > And make the game not worth it to the trappers, they are looking to boost power weapon kills most of the time, I see so many people run out 1 by 1, I have even seen people spawn a mantis when trapped, that did not end well. If you hang back, they have to come into the base making it easier to kill them, they are easier to see and you have more people to pour fire on them, but your also slowing down the kills, they want fast kills, they don’t want to have to fight for them, if they have to push deep into the base, risk dying and the game is going to take longer to complete they will end it.
> > Why spend 25 minutes slowly killing a spawn trapped enemy, it defeats the purpose of the trap. If it were me, I would end the game, get into a new one where I can kill fast.
>
>
> I dont mean to sound rude but it sounds like you haven’t been on the receiving end of one of these organised 12 man spawn trap killing machines…if they are any good, there’s no way you are getting out of base in any vehicle, and if you do manage to escape and capture a base, its only a matter of minutes before its recapped and you’re back to the spawn trap. The best option is to quit in the scenario but the ban system stops a lot of ppl doing this also…there really needs to be a surrender option that activates for this scenario.
>
> To be fair, I’ve been on both ends of the stick with this…after losing many games queuing solo in Warzone and being on the receiving end of spawn killing stomping squads, myself and a few friends decided to squad together. It started out with 5 or 6 of us playing and we were able to tip the balance in our favour and win most games…it has now increased to a squad of over 20 players ready to play Warzone so we always have a 12 man team ready to stomp, and I’ve never been on the losing side when we party up as a 12 man team. The difference between our 12 man team and others is that we don’t spawn kill, and the team goes for the core all the time…most games last less than 10 minutes with most kills usually below 10. Admittedly most of us are in the same Achilles spartan company, however I personally take no enjoyment spawn killing so as long as the opponents don’t put up much of a fight or come running straight out of base then its pretty painless and over really quickly. As a side note…I personally find the whole thing a bit boring as its not a contest by any stretch of the imagination, but it gives me a nice boost in quick REQ pts for an hour or so.
>
> The problem isn’t 12 man teams…the problem is the 12 man teams that spawn kill and exploiting the system that allows it to happen.

the problem is very much 12 man teams. It creates totally unbalanced matches regardless of whether you farm kills or go for core. ITs the equivalent of a 12 year old bullying a 5 year old. It doesn’t matter of the 12 year old just constantly taunts the 5 yr old or beats them up. the cause and The result is still the same. The cause being a mismatch of size and strength and knowledge and the result getting destroyed.

Fair point but I disagree…its the mentality of the players in the 12 man team and not all 12 man teams are the same as clearly stated in my post.

I would agree that restricting maximise fireteam size to 4 would reduce this problem, however any more than that and you’re going to end up with the same result…a 6 player fireteam can easily control and push back a team of 12 randoms once the rest of their team mates catch on to what is happening.

> 2728296738561752;13:
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>
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> I dont mean to sound rude but it sounds like you haven’t been on the receiving end of one of these organised 12 man spawn trap killing machines…,

You don’t sound rude, and I have been on the receiving end many times. Sometimes the scout hog doesn’t work, sometimes it does, it depends on what the other team is using at the time, and I rarely get out with my shields intact, but with an upgraded scout hog you can take some damage, if you drift the corner to try and keep your Spartan outta the line of fire to prevent headshots and let the hog take the hits for you might make it, but you have to be quick.

I have never had a trap that I couldn’t get behind the enemy line, what you said it right, the moment you take the base the enemy will come for you, but your team is now spawning outside the trap. If you have a few decent solo players they can put up a fight. I always go for the base farthest away from the trap, increase how long it takes the enemy to get there. Sometimes they take it back and return to trapping, sometimes while they are taking that base back we capture the 1st base.

At the very lease it gives you a chance to fight back. And its how I keep myself busy during games like this.

> 2690096563135647;14:
> We somewhat agree, offer your ideas for a solution because I seriously want this not to be an issue. :stuck_out_tongue:

:slight_smile:
Already jotted down one. Another would be, for as long as WZ/WZA games last, a little bit longer search times to find/create balanced and therefore competitive games, would be nice.

Arena needs the quicker search times, War Zone does not (but only to degrees of quickness).

> 2533274929611012;17:
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> > > 2533274929611012;10:
> > >
> >
> >
> > I dont mean to sound rude but it sounds like you haven’t been on the receiving end of one of these organised 12 man spawn trap killing machines…,
>
>
> You don’t sound rude, and I have been on the receiving end many times. Sometimes the scout hog doesn’t work, sometimes it does, it depends on what the other team is using at the time, and I rarely get out with my shields intact, but with an upgraded scout hog you can take some damage, if you drift the corner to try and keep your Spartan outta the line of fire to prevent headshots and let the hog take the hits for you might make it, but you have to be quick.
>
> I have never had a trap that I couldn’t get behind the enemy line, what you said it right, the moment you take the base the enemy will come for you, but your team is now spawning outside the trap. If you have a few decent solo players they can put up a fight. I always go for the base farthest away from the trap, increase how long it takes the enemy to get there. Sometimes they take it back and return to trapping, sometimes while they are taking that base back we capture the 1st base.
>
> At the very lease it gives you a chance to fight back. And its how I keep myself busy during games like this.

saw some cases (mainly in stormbreak where is easy to do that at least as much easy is to basetrap) that when a team try to escape and success, going to cap trapper’s first armory, 2-3 people in trapping team sucide, then respawn to armory, kill attackers, go to trap again…

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> > 2533274929611012;17:
> > > 2728296738561752;13:
> > > > 2533274929611012;10:
> > > >
>
>
> saw some cases (mainly in stormbreak where is easy to do that at least as much easy is to basetrap) that when a team try to escape and success, going to cap trapper’s first armory, 2-3 people in trapping team sucide, then respawn to armory, kill attackers, go to trap again…

True, but this is why I ditch the hog somewhere and wait, if they send 2-3 people my way looking for me, and they cant find me, they will either return making it easier for me to capture, or they wont, and it takes pressure off my team at the base. Which might allow someone else to escape making it even easier.
Its not a 100% foolproof plan, but its a plan, and the more I do it, the more I prefect it. I only use loadout weapons so I don’t get upset about dying with a loaded rocket launcher, plus I can refill my ammo as I need, I watch for the enemy and sometimes it is better to make a tactical retreat.

Everyone has to remember that Halo is a TEAM based game, it is not reasonable to ask 343i to take away the ability for people to play in a team in a team playlist. Yes it gives them team an advantage, but that’s the point!.
I will say I miss the MM from halo 2, and somewhat halo 3, randoms actually communicated!. It was simple to group up after a game and play together, more people used their mics than didn’t. Halo 4 and 5 have seen a different gaming community, people choose not to communicate with people they don’t know, its sad.