'New Sandbox Items' in Season 2

Games Halo Infinite
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Seeing that phrase mentioned in season 2 got me thinking as soon as I saw this in the newsfeed yesterday. With that, do you think they might be adding potential vehicles or weapons in the maps? It would certainly be a welcome addition into the game. Of course, I want the game to be functional as well, so with any additions to it, it has to work with everything else. It could also be interpreted though as assets for the new maps, but I hope thats not the case.

What do you think it means, and what you hope it adds upon season 2.

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Pretty sure they said new sandbox items in season 3.

That said, I hope it’s the brute shot or the Grenade Launcher

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Jeez. That is unfortunate to have to wait a year after launch to do that. Hopefully it won’t just be a few things. We are missing a bunch of standout weapons and vehicles. Gauss Hog. Mantis. Revenant, Railgun, Grenade Launcher, Maybe the needle rifle. There is a whole lot of assets from the previous games they can still utilize.

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With the Hydra and Cindershot already in the game, I’m curious how do you see the Brute Shot working?

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They can keep the Bruteshot, the Cindershot and the Hydra… just give me my Grenade Launcher back.

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Heavy knockback.

The Brute Shot/Concussion Rifle were so good at it that they were legitimate counters to the sword as well as decent vehicle stoppers.

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Do you think that’s enough? Why not just add the knockback ability to the Hydra - why should this be unique to the Brute Shot? Also the Cindershot already has a knock back ability of sorts pulling enemies towards their projectiles?

Don’t get me wrong I’d love for the Brute Shot to be in the game I just wan’t to get your take on it.

What would you say to the idea of an enhanced Brute Shot? Like a Tier 3 Power Weapon that would be a counterpart to the UNSC’s SAW? An automatic belt fed grenade launcher (16 rounds maybe? Mini grenades with knock back? 4-5 shots to kill?).

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The opposite of knockback? LOL

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@Pyro5327 Direct hits have knockback. The point is any enemy hit by the cindershot is getting tossed around by it.

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Thank you for clarifying.

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I think it’s enough especially with its fast rate of fire. The hydra’s unique ability is the lock-on mode. Being able to lock on to and knock ground vehicles off balance might be a little too strong. But that’s my opinion.

As for why it’s unique. Most explosions don’t really have any impulse in Infinite right now, so a gun specifically based around pushing players around could be fun, especially for customs. I don’t think the Hydra had much knockback in H5 either (maybe a variant did), so it not having it here checks out, for whatever that’s worth.

As for the Cindershot, it actually has reverse knockback (pulling enemies in). And I’d argue that the (gravity effect?) isn’t its main feature. People pick it up for it’s explosive rounds, bouncing around corners, and laser guided alt-fire. Pulling targets toward the explosion seems secondary to me. That’s why we need a dedicated gravity gun, like Void’s Tear from H5, would be awesome. It would fit right in with Brute weaponry.

And while we’re on the topic of knockback, we have to address the Repulsor and Hammer. Infinite’s hammer doesn’t seem to have knockback at all, but that could change. And the repulsor has the most knockback of any item in the franchise, but it does almost no damage and has a slow cooldown. As well as it is equipment, so you don’t have drop another weapon to have it. Probably the most relevent attribute of the repulsor is its ability to break grapple lines. This could be a trait added to the brute to make it valuable in certain matchups.

The main advantage that the Brute Shot would have over other launcher/knockack-type weapons is:

  • High rate of fire
  • Fast Reload (Hydra and Cindershot load 1 round at a time)
  • Very high knockback
  • Higher splash radius than the Hydra
  • Better direct fire (Hydra is more effective with lock-ons and Cindershot relies on rebounds)
  • Higher melee damage (bayonet)

You also have to look at sandbox additions from a campaign/PvE perspective. No one is gonna tell you that the Spiker was their favorite gun, but it made sense in the context of H3/Reach’s campaigns. Aside from the fact that Brutes are the main enemies in Infinite, the differences between the Hydra and the Brute Shot could make certain engagement easier or harder depending on the situation. Of course, while lore shouldn’t dictate gameplay, I do think it would’ve been a good enough reason to include it since it at least makes sense.

Ultimately, the Brute Shot wouldn’t be horribly unique in Infinite since the Hydra was somewhat changed to fill its role (if this were a H5 Hydra, the Brute Shot would be much more unique). But I think it has enough different attributes from other launchers that it could offer some variety for players.

I told you before that i don’t mind guns having a bit of overlap with their special traits. I think the combination of traits is what separates one gun from another, even if they are similar or have similar roles (AR vs H5 Brute Plasma Rifle for example).

That’s sort of already in the game, believe it or not. The campaign’s Scrap Cannon is what I’m referring to. It’s a heavy turret that fires explosive rounds (very similar to H5’s tier-3 SAW variant, The Answer). The rounds have bullet drop too. I think that was a good way to get a weapon like the SAW into the game without making it super OP like how it was in H4/5. The Answer was a 6-shot kill, but the magazin was MUCH larger. Your idea is obviously a bit higher calibre, but I think both guns are walking a similar path. Sounds like a great BTB gun though.

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Rather than adding effects to existing weapons, adding new toys in that might functional similarly but do different things spreads out the flavor rather than mixing it all together.

The Hydra has its projectile speed and lock on as its gimmick alongside being a tier 3 weapon, the cindershot features fly-by-wire and impact magnetism as its gimmick alongside being a power weapon. A brute shot/concussion rifle would be a disruptor delivering damage alongside being an effective crowd control/vehicle control weapon.

It’s kinda why the Grav hammer has kinda sucked in recent iterations, when it was introduced it was a melee weapon that performed differently than the sword adding utility to combat rather than pure killing power. Since then, its gravity effect utility has been taken away in favor of it being a killing tool. Look how it functions in Halo 3/Reach as a disruption/leverage tool in Grifball and how it lost that functionality in 4/5.

Ascend Hyperion does a good job at explaining this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x75CGw8cWC4&feature=

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The Hydra isnt a tier 3 weapon it is tier 2, and it is actually one of the worst weapons in the game (objectively worse than th e Ravager apart from it’s effectiveness vs vehicles.

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Comparing this Brute Shot concept to the scrap cannon would be like comparing the SAW to the chain gun turret.

If you are making the argument that the Brute Shot is not different enough from the Scrap Cannon, then I would say it is not different enough from the Hydra either.

I feel the Brute Shot would have to be a changed variant (which is why I mentioned a full auto type with more belt fed grenades). Halo 3’s Brute Shot took 4 shots to kill, was really fast firing, and it had an ammo capacity of 6, the only change I’m really advocating for here is to increase ammo capacity in order to make it more of an LMG counterpart rather than just another launcher (sure it would be auto but fire rate would be similar).

If knockback is all you want, then I feel it wouldn’t be hard to just add that function to the Hydra. Decrease shots to kill while using the lock on mode from 4 to 3, keep it 3 shots to kill while using the dumb fire mode but increase projectile velocity and add a knock back effect.

At the end of the day, for me the Hydra or the Brute Shot would have to be reworked to get it a unique spot in the sandbox, which is potentially why 343 opted not to include it IMO.

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The weapon variants in the Campaign should be replaced with other ones from the games. Just having low recoil and barely any changes to the UNSC guns isn’t much of a change, so here’s a list of the swapped variants. (V=Variant)

ARV>SMG (H5)
It’s like a P90 and that is a good gun. Why drop the 4/5 artstyle entirely?

SidekickV>M6D Magum (CE)
Need I say more?

CommandoV>SAW
Why have the Commando variant be so useless? The SAW solves that problem.

BR75V>DMR
The faster firerate of the BR and lower ammo isn’t too great. The DMR is what people want instead.

BulldogV>Tactical Shotgun
The opposite of the Bulldog, but better and stronger. Good for Infection or hostile Flood.

SniperV>Beam Rifle
Where is the Beam? Nowhere. The 10 round 1x zoom low damage Sniper is bad. Can’t even kill with a headshot unless you use two bullets.

SPNKrV>Rocket Launcher (H5)
Yes the green tube wasn’t well received as a replacement, so give the tracking to the normal SPNKr on air vehicles only, and a scope. There you go it’s back to normal. Non-scoped and non-tracking on the H5 rocket would work with a higher velocity.

NeedlerV>Suppressor (H5)
Where’s the Promethean guns? And why a Needler with hardly any difference? The H5 Suppressor was much better than H4, it tracked and was useful.

ManglerV>Mauler
It is a Mauler, but isn’t. Shooting a cluster of spikes is what the Mauler does, and the design is similar too.

DisruptorV>Boltshot (H5)
The H5 Boltshot is leagues better than H4’s. No more pocket shotguns. Its burst tracking was unique.

Plasma PistolV>Spiker
The model is in Infinite, and another pistol wouldn’t be ideal, so something small and classic.

Stalker RifleV>Light Rifle(H4)
The switching between burst and semi-auto was great. Then changed in H5, only to be used as a base for the Stalker Rifle. Why the constant changes?

Shock RifleV>Binary Rifle(H4)
First, give the sniper Sentinels a Forerunner weapon. Second, Binary is cooler. The advanced Focus Rifle that was the H5 Binary didn’t hit the mark that the H4 version did.

SkewerV>Spartan Laser
It’s the same type of gun. You can collateral with the Laser, but not the Skewer. And the Laser is more fun.

HydraV>Plasma Launcher
The satisfying beep of a successful stick, followed by an explosion. Good times. It’s like a Covenant Hydra anyway.

RavagerV>Brute Shot
The signature weapon of the Brutes, the original pinball machine. Used by the Banished, but not in Infinite.

Sentinel BeamV>Focus Rifle
A long range SBeam, it really is. So why not?

HeatwaveV>Scattershot(H5)
Basically the same gun, but the Scattershot was easier to use and did more damage.

CindershotV>Gernade Launcher
Brought back in H5, then cut again. Its EMP helped in BTB quite a bit.

Pulse CarbineV>Carbine
Like the DMR, fans want it back. The Pulse isn’t the same.

Gravity HammerV>Golf Club
Escharum’s hammer stays, but the hammer variant isn’t great. Golf club is where its at.

Energy SwordV>Prophets Bane
The Arbiters personal weapon, fan favorite with its camo, but wouldn’t have the camo for Infinite for balancing. Having H5’s sword mechanics of faster movement and long lunge would be better.

If I missed a weapon, I’ll add to it. But wouldn’t these replacements be better? And they’ll be for use in multiplayer of course.

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Easy, replace the trashy new ones and you would have a good gun.

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I want new weapons added, no weapons removed! We already lost tank gun!

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Thinking about this a bit more, that Scrap Cannon comparison wasn’t one of my better takes. Misinterpreting your auto-brute shot idea didn’t help either. But I am absolutely comparing the SAW to the chaingun.

The change would be reverting the Hydra back to its H5 identity. There, it was strictly used for lock-ons. Dumb fire was only for spraying the ground with the all 6 missiles when someone got too close. Right now the Hydra is a bit of a Swiss army knife that fills both roles. And that’s ok, if they don’t want to add the Brute Shot. However, I do believe there is value in guns having simple/single functions. For instance, they’re easier to balance (remember what I said about the Ravager outperforming other guns because of its 2 fire modes simply being competent).

I could live with that.

My thoughts exactly. Like I said, I’m not gonna lose sleep if they don’t add it since the Hydra is close enough.
And of the 2 guns I mentioned in the my first comment, the Grenade Launcher is by far the higher priority gun. How that thing hasn’t been a day 1 feature since Reach is beyond me.

So, on the topic of vehicle killers that lock-on, what are your thoughts on the Reach’s Plasma Launcher?

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I like the charge up feature, I’m not really all that interested in the Plasma Launcher returning but I wouldn’t be opposed to giving the Hydra this function, even if it was just a variant. It would make the Hydra way better as a futuristic launcher IMO. Why fire single projectiles at a target when you could just hit them with a devastating barrage all at once? Going back to our discussion on the Ravager and giving it the ability to be a one hit kill with a direct hit from a charged shot, a charged Hydra barrage would basically give the Hydra the same lethality (but its slow reload speed would limit its effectiveness).

Or maybe the Hydra should just be a faster firing grenade launcher like it was in Halo 5. I’m not sure honestly, but I feel the Plasma Launcher wouldn’t offer anything new to the sandbox.

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The charge up is my favorite part about it. Unlike other charging guns (Laser, Railgun, etc), the Plasma Launcher gets stronger the longer you charge it, which is pretty cool. What I think it does better than the Laser and the Hydra is that it gives the target more agency in how to counter being shot at with it. Slow projectiles give more time to react/dodge, and the stickies take a second to detonate so alert drivers have time evacuate or not (kind of like the new doom state on vehicles now). Also spraying the grenades on the ground can work as a pseudo area denial tool (kind of like the plasma caster). Also I think you could get more than one lock-on and kill multiple spartans at once, which I’m sure if that’s something you can do with the Hydra. And even if you can multi-lock, the 4 shot kill would make that pointless.

That kind of reminds me of the Mantis’ missiles. You know how you could charge all 5 in a burst. The slow reload is definitely a good balance for such a powerful attack.

I was just bringing it up since I mentioned that I don’t really see the Skewer being the long term solution to the spartan laser, despite really liking it. I think the Plasma Launcher’s reliance on target locks combined with its long charge up alleviates the the issue some people apparently had with the laser “killing them out of nowhere” because of pre-charging.

In short, it’s a powerful weapon that takes a long time to use. And I think that aspect might be something 343 ought to think about when it comes to anti-vehicle guns. The Skewer weirdly does the opposite of this.

Personally I’m fine with the laser how it was. And obviously the Skewer is still cool. Just thought I’d bring it up.

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