New ranked system please

Games Halo Infinite
1

Look at my last game. This happens aaaaaa lot. I’ve had a rough two plus days since the update with servers losing teammates etc but this doesn’t help. Improperly ranked teammates just do not help me. This ranking system needs to be for its face value only. The hidden part of it is what is broken clearly. Award points based on that games performance and move on. No hidden bs that puts platinums with high diamonds. Every time you rank up the cards get stacked so hard against you, whether it’s having to do all the objective for the team because your getting desperate or you get two guys massively negative and under ranked for the lobby. Love you guys just another disappointment vent rant and question, of……

What would you do to fix this. It has to get fixed the low population and hidden mmr manipulation is toxic it’s gotta go. It has turned off so many ppl. Make it for face value it will seriously work better.

3 Likes
2

Be patient, your csr will go down and you’ll get lower competition fellow Spartan.

3

This.

Fingers crossed Season 3 and 4 live up to the (leaking) hype… and we get some player’s back.

Sounds like your problem is with the MM and not so much the ranking.

Again. It just needs a bigger population to work with.

If you are talking about your MMR. It’s probably the component that works best.

343 have stuffed up the CSR a bit. Which makes it frustrating.

And we’ve touched on how MM is struggling with the lower population - but what can you do.

It shouldn’t.

The only “toxic” part is you can’t actually look it up to see for yourself.

It does.

But it awards points based on that’s game peformance relative to the skill level of your opponents.

Beating up a lower ranked team should never count the same as beating an equal or higher ranked team. Same for losing to a team ranked lower than you.

Face value only tells a very small part of the story.

It only feels that way.

Sometimes you win because someone else on your team carried. Or someone on the opposition fell off the perch.

The bias is that you only really notice the losses where you did “well”.

No it won’t.

But I agree 343 could make it so much better.

Get rid of the 0-1800 CSR. It’s just not precise enough. Wind it back to 1-100 or so.

Stop showing your team mate’s and opponents change in rank. You have no context to why theirs was better or worse than yours - so you just end up frustrated.

And let us actually see the bits that matter. People would be less frustrated if we could actually see our MMR over time. And our KPM plotted against opposition rank. People could then work with the system as opposed to against it.

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4

If you win a game your best player gets 15 points, 2nd gets 13, 3rd gets 11, 4th gets 9. The same goes for the reverse on the loss. This is exactly the same system at face value without platinums mmr being too high from social making the game think there too onyx players. That’s the major issue I’m finding. Going up 10 points a game and only losing 7 is good but at what cost. That only works if the game isn’t crashing or servers don’t go 100 plus ping etc. This rewards the game and who performed and puts them into higher ranks quicker while the ppl who get carried aren’t going anywhere fast and get penalized on losses

I don’t need a game to guess my rank for me and reward me x points. I need a game to reward me what I deserve at face value, no guessing required. This would sift through ppl from social coming into ranked, as well as ppl getting carried and rewards players good gameplay. This is the fix. It’s not complicated. Ppl rank up extremely quickly when they are good. Yes my mmr is high and working for me but at what cost with teammates. I’m not saying all mates are bad but when 40% of the time they are this system kills you… and servers…. Lol but not funnny

5

I understand but I don’t need or want the lower competition. I’m tired of the lower competition. Getting ppl who know “how” to play is more enjoyable then having to carry. It’s always so pleasant when ppl know how to play and it’s fun but it’s rare at this level. I’m gaining a lot of experience in the playlist and the problem is mmr. There’s no way you face mostly onyx ranks and have low diamonds and onyx on your team. And especially when you carry hard and lose it’s a slap in face.

I shouldn’t lose a slayer game to a 1700 onyx player and high diamonds where I’m 20 n 9 and however many assists with 2 ppl so massively negative in diamond 3 on my team. That’s a friggin issue at face value ranks.

1 Like
6

What you are describing ends up being a simple sorting system.

As a ranking system it is slow. Really slow. And would create a lot of unhealthy mismatches while it sorts itself out.

It’s the literal reason why ELO type ranking systems were invented.

And they way you’ve described means the better players would just go up and up. The best player in a win gets 15 points. In a loss they only 9. That’s a net gain of +6 for every 50:50 result.

This is not what happens.

Social has little influence on your ranked MMR.

You are getting Platinums in your MM because the system has to stretch to find players.

That’s frustrating. Sure. But has to be compartmentalised from the ranking.

TrueSkill2 already has you covered with KPM (kills per minute).

It quickly sorts the wheat from the chaff.

And I whole heartedly agree. You should get a break down of the CSR change. At face value.

The stats should include your MMR. Their MMR. And why your CSR changed.

If you didn’t have to “guess” then people wouldn’t get angry at the messenger.

Why?

The more social players will just get lower ranks.

It’s just unfortunate that the population is so low they get dragged up into lobbies that don’t want them.

That they will. TrueSkill2 is very good at ranking you up (or down).

I guess it’s up to you to take control of your team.

The important thing is to appreciate that the other side is struggling with the same problems. So it evens out.

Sometimes your team mates drag your down. Sometimes they elevate you.

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7

Just as long as you appreciate that those lower ranked players don’t want to be cannon fodder either.

They are just as unhappy with the situation as you are.

Argh. Can’t help myself.

Your most recent game matching that description;

Your team;

  • Onyx 1716 = +2
  • Diamond 4 = +11 (you)
  • Diamond 3 = -9
  • Diamond 3 = -5

Their team

  • Onyx 1525 = +2
  • Diamond 5 = +3
  • Diamond 5 = -1
  • Diamond 3 = -3

My first comment would be to congratulate the MM. It assembled two teams that fought out a 49-50 game of Slayer.

Sounds awesome!

Off the cuff it looks like your team had a wider spread of ranks - so it was probably up to the two top players to nurture the lower ranked player’s a bit better.

And yep. You clearly led your team by example. At least in K/D.

How much effort did you, or your Onyx team-mate, put into protecting or helping the two Platinum 3’s? Especially the one who was struggling?

You didn’t.

You lost a game to an Onyx 1500 and few mid-high Diamonds.

The Onyx 1700 was on your side.

Only 3.

And the two lowest ranked players had 15 between them. So they were helping!

The minus 9 wasn’t great.

But the minus 5 was borderline for being one of the lowest ranked in the game.

The three D3’s in the game all went negative.

I’d be more dirty on the Onyx 1700 for not lifting their game a bit?

Sorry. But at a rough glance this game seems perfectly reasonable.

Two evenly matched teams.

Some players having a good game. Some having a bad one.

But for all intents and purposes it looks like an epic game, between two reasonably balanced teams, that went down to the wire.

What you are experiencing here is the typical bias we all get when we play well and lose.

4 Likes
8

And this is exactly why CSR and SBMM are part of the game. How good you do directly correlates to the competition that you face. There’s no reason to be going 20+ and 3 or 4. Just doesn’t make sense whatsoever.

9

The sorting system may be slower but honestly more effective in my years of experience playing. It would also be more rewarding for those individuals having decent games.Which after the update is hard because my games are constant rubberbanding Desync is awful now. That doesn’t help either, butttttt with a lower population this has to be the key. Minus the last two ranked days I’ve playing very well but have nothing to show other then more points for winning…. Woo…. Offset by quitters/crashes which seems to be against myself then for… unlucky….

Next season will not grow population but it will either keep the population it has left, orrr destroy it further once and for all. They need a system for the lower population. Those onyx players in that game are the reason there needs to be a better system clearly trying to boost which most of them I encounter right now are doing. I’m always curious to see there stats and I look often and it’s aweful which leads me further into a broken ranking system. Again other then last 2 ranked days played I’ve been running a 1.2-3 plus, and 4.5 plus kdr. I shouldn’t be having that if I’m properly ranked. I should be a 1. This is wearing on me. As for helping as you can see I have a much higher assist ratio then most when it comes to kdr. I focus on helping and listening because that’s a good mate

I guess all in all, what I’m getting at is, I’m at the end of my rope soon with halo like all my long time halo friends. Desync is murder and then when you beat that, you get this. Just trying to discuss a positive change to the system that retains population because a lot of ppl won’t touch ranked anymore.

I also believe there needs to be a solo que ranked arena and a ranked slayer

1 Like
10

Exactly. This is what I am saying

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11

That’s perfect than fellow spartan! I’m happy that we’re on the same page for this topic.

12

Checked out your tube, subbed yah good luck on your ventures. Penguins days are over lmao (leafs fan) <———- I know I know

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13

I’d come back if they showed any love for the campaign. Lately in lobbies I get the same people matching in ranked so the player count is pretty dead. Recommend Sea of Thieves

14

We will see in 2 weeks when Season 3 drops if the player count goes back up a bit.

15

Yeah I know it’s concerning I noticed that for sure already

16

Effective - but only really in providing the user with a sense of a journey.

But really, ELO systems are much better.

But I agree that 343 could do a lot better with the CSR and sense of engagement.

People always talk about being “rewarded” for decent games.

They don’t want to flip the conversation to being “penalised” for not so decent ones.

Eg. Your last 25 games have balanced out to a KD of 1.1 - so it just shows how a good game can get evened out in the wash.

Which is horrible. But again, separate issue from ranking.

In the previous 10 days of playing you have gone 53 & 50.

Obviously there is context here. Who you beat. Who you lost to. But that pretty much 50:50.

Again suggesting you are ranked appropriately.

That is frustrating.

But if you assume that crashes are just as likely to happen for both teams - and you aren’t a quitter yourself - then overall quitting and crashing will work to bump up your rank. Just an itty bit.

They do.

I’ve been racking my brain for weeks. And I’m sure much cleverer people have been doing so for years.

It would be very difficult.

I’m sure it’s just as frustrating for them.

Any gains they get for a win would be tiny as their opposition is ranked way lower than them.

And losses would cut deep.

Maybe.

But, there is also a danger in judging play on certain stats.

You’re at 1.15 for the last 25 games.

So in a run of good personal form.

But anyway, that axiom only holds true in squads of equal skill. With the current set up the top players will have high KD. The lower players low KD. And only the middlers around 1. And that’s not ideal (or fun).

Which is awesome. Wish I had people like you in my team.

But KDA and/or assists aren’t used by TrueSkill2.

Not that they aren’t important - those stats are great for generating wins. But because TrueSkill2 runs on wins - they are already included.

Discussion is great!

17

This used to annoy me as well.

But keep in mind.

  1. People have good games and bad games. Good days and bad days. And sometimes you need to run over your own game history to see that it happens to you too.

  2. The difference between rank isn’t as big as you think. A mid-Diamond should beat a mid-Platinum in 3 out of 4 games. The corollary is that the Plat beats the Diamond in 1 out of 4. And it’s frustrating when you do - you think you should be at their level. But until you can prove you can go 50:50 with that higher level you don’t deserve to be there.

  3. Your CSR is an average of your rank in all the game modes. So someone who is very good at 1v1 may be a Diamond 5 in Slayer. But if they aren’t very good at team-work they may be much lower in objective games. eg. Diamond 3 in Oddball, Diamond 2 in Strong Holds, and Platinum 6 in CTF. So their overall CSR may be Diamond 2 or 3 even though they “slay” at a higher rank. And, of course, other’s may have the opposite effect - their overall rank is high because of their team-work skills and they struggle to slay at their advertised rank.

  4. Squads. If you play the majority of your games in a squad with friends - your rank reflects your skill relatively to them. Some people are dragged up - and they struggle a bit when going solo (their friends aren’t there to cover their deficits). But I’ve also seen the opposite - players who do much better solo and actually dragged down by their regular team-mates!

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18

I would love and welcome being penalized for bad games. I would be jumping for joy omg. Yes that 1.15 is me playing bad on brutal servers last 2 days. Been much higher after you telling me how the system works it’s been on the sky rise. Better point results for sure but still

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19

Appreciate it. Thank you and go pens! And the NHL as a whole.

I really do hope we see a great rank system/ progression come out. No way Onyx is it. There’s got to be something else in the works at 343! Right?

20

I actually liked the idea behind the six divisions. Each one being a standard deviation of the skill curve.

https://i.redd.it/ql811ro73zxz.png

And statistically each division is approximately 25% chance of beating the division above it.

But 343 never really did anything to promote it.

But regardless… it’s all moot now you have the CSR score.

Instead of 1-50 you’ve got 1-1800+

They’ve gone from being too simple (1-50) to too detailed (1-1800). I’m sure the answer is somewhere in-between. eg. 1-117

1 Like