Let’s get one thing straight first. I have played halo since I was five years old with halo ce and 2. The first game I played on 360 was halo 3, so I’ve seen the elites undergo a lot of change from 2001 to now. And I hope I’m not alone in saying that the new elites are actually quite cool in design. I like the garish headdresses and bulky armor. It makes them look intimidating and distinguished in combat. While I don’t care for the new ranger elites, as well as how they behave in h5’s cutscenes, which I do believe is wrong behaviour for them, I think the new zealots and officers are pretty good. Anyone else agree or do you guys prefer the old ones more?
5 years old? … I was in college when Halo 2 came out. So this is how you just made me feel. lol.
On topic though, I really like the new Zealot armor. Anatomically, I prefer the Halo 2 Anniversary/Halo Wars 2 look. Armor is armor, that changes. Evolution shouldn’t be taking place … well, Arbiter should look like the Arbiter. Although, I don’t remember anyone complaining when Lord Hood went from looking like a toe to a potato between Halo 2 & Halo 3, but that wasn’t deliberate. This is a deliberate artistic change that many are pretty outspoken against.
http://i.imgur.com/wpvpc7e.gifv (it’s a joke)
It’s not that they’re bad. They look pretty cool, especially in Halo 4’s CG stuff. It’s just that they’re different. A lot of people think they changed Halo’s look too much too quickly.
I’ve never really hated the new design either. I go back and fourth over which one is better. I certainly wouldn’t mind if the new design stayed.
I prefer my Elites without their eyes basically inside of their mouths, and who’s mouths don’t go all the way to the back of their heads. Not being able to stab one’s self in the eye with one’s own teeth seems like it would be beneficial.
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> I prefer my Elites without their eyes basically inside of their mouths, and who’s mouths don’t go all the way to the back of their heads. Not being able to stab one’s self in the eye with one’s own teeth seems like it would be beneficial.
True, but somehow I don’t mind it. I see your point, it wouldn’t be very good for the covenant if all the elites went blind after giving an order
The problem with the new Elites are two-fold;
- Firstly there’s the character based flaws, which you noted, including their behavior (particularly during cutscenes) and their vocals. The Storm Elites behave like Brutes, without the untapped ferocity. They are presented as laughably incompetent regardless of rank and they all have…well…brutish voices and speech patterns, which actively goes against prior representations of the species.
I’m all for different variations of Sangheili, adapted to different colony’s environments, etc. But not at the cost of the originals. The Skirmishers are a good example, introduce variants that play differently alongside the regulars, don’t just ‘art’ over everything for the sake of ‘individuality’. - Secondly, there’s aesthetics from a gameplay standpoint; namely their silhouette and color palette.
The Elites, since CE, have followed a color to rank system that remained solid until Halo 4. Blue for Minors, Red for Majors, White for Ultras, etc, etc.
This was deliberate as it allowed you, the player, to visually identify the rank of any given Elite from a distance, even at a glance. One flash of color and you know the shield strength, potential loadout, and viable responses to that Elite.
In Halo 4 and 5, Minors are dark blue, Majors are an even darker blue with purple highlights, Rangers are a lighter shade of blue…you can begin to see the problem already. Generals are a darker gold instead of a bright Yellow, and Stealth Elites…well, they’re my exception to the rule since they are hard to spot by design, naturally.
Then there’s the armor designs, which, much like the forerunner architecture, get lost in detail. They lack easily defined attributes because there are too many to account for, each design whether impressive or not (I like the Stealth designs) is a visual bombardment of curves and lines, they lack definition, and combined with the samey color palette, they tend to blend into one another.
This isn’t good for gameplay. A General with a Concussion Rifle will, at a glance, be indistinguishable from the Minor with a storm rifle beside them, because the colors aren’t distinct enough to catch your attention, and the designs are too similar to differentiate them. This lack of information given to the player leads to less risks being taken, less subconcious decision making, and ultimately boils every firefight with the Elites into trial and error fire from cover. - Which is boring.*So, yeah, there’s more to the issue than just subjective taste, unfortunately.
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> I prefer my Elites without their eyes basically inside of their mouths, and who’s mouths don’t go all the way to the back of their heads. Not being able to stab one’s self in the eye with one’s own teeth seems like it would be beneficial.
I got a chuckle out of this xD but yeah, their facial structure just isn’t anatomically correct at all.
If you were 5 during CE…that means you were only legally old enough to play the series when Halo 5 came out. GOOOOOD LAAAAWWWD ALMIGHTY! And that’s assuming CE, if it was H2… Well hope you got space MrMartini85 because a fellow senior citizen’s comin’ to join ya.
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> The problem with the new Elites are two-fold;
> - Firstly there’s the character based flaws, which you noted, including their behavior, particularly during cutscenes, and their vocals. The Storm Elites behave like Brutes, without the untapped ferocity. They are presented as laughably incompetent regardless of rank and they all have, well, brutish voices and speech patterns, which actively goes against prior representations of the species.
> I’m all for different variations of Sangheili, adapted to different colony’s environments, etc. But not at the cost of the originals. The Skirmishers are a good example, introduce variants that play differently alongside the regulars, don’t just ‘art’ over everything for the sake of ‘individuality’. - Secondly, there’s aesthetics from a gameplay standpoint; namely their silhouette and color palette.
> The Elites, since CE, have followed a color to rank system that remained solid until Halo 4. Blue for Minors, Red for Majors, White for Ultras, etc, etc.
> This was deliberate as it allowed you, the player, to visually identify the rank of any given Elite from a distance, even at a glance. One flash of color and you know the shield strength, potential loadout, and viable responses to that Elite.
> In Halo 4 and 5, Minors are dark blue, Majors are an even darker blue with purple highlights, Rangers are a lighter shade of blue…you can begin to see the problem already. Generals are a darker gold instead of a bright Yellow, and Stealth Elites…are my exception to the rule since they are hard to spot by design, naturally.
> Then there’s the armor designs, which, much like the forerunner architecture, get lost in detail. They lack easily defined attributes because there are too many to account for, each design whether impressive or not (I like the Stealth designs) is a visual bombardment of curves and lines, they lack definition, and combined with the same-y color palette, they tend to blend into one another.
> This isn’t good for gameplay. A General with a Concussion Rifle will, at a glance, be indistinguishable from the Minor with a storm rifle beside them, because the colors aren’t distinct enough to catch your attention, and the designs are too similar to differentiate them, and this lack of information given to the player leads to less risks being taken, less subconcious decision making, and ultimately boils every firefight with the Elites into trial and error fire from cover.
> - Which is boring.*So, yeah, there’s more to the issue than just subjective taste, unfortunately.
Regarding their behaviour, to be fair Jul did recruit most of the Storm Elites from Hesduros, which was a remote, backwater colony. That’s like recruiting Rednecks to form the bulk of your military (no offense to any Rednecks who might be reading). Of course you’re gonna get sub-standard troops when compared to the Green Berets and Delta Forces of the old Covenant. Additionally, the religious fanaticism of the Hesdurons made them ideal targets for manipulation from Jul. None of the old, refined Sangheili would have considered joining the Storm faction, which was akin to a religious cult, thus explaining their non-presence.
Frankly, I’m amazed Jul got as far as he did. It’s a testament to his cunningness and strategic planning, until his assassination of course. I’m still willing to back the body double theory though…
But regarding your thoughts on the aesthetics, I pretty much agree with everything.
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> Regarding their behaviour, to be fair Jul did recruit most of the Storm Elites from Hesduros, which was a remote, backwater colony. That’s like recruiting Rednecks to form the bulk of your military (no offense to any Rednecks who might be reading). Of course you’re gonna get sub-standard troops when compared to the Green Berets and Delta Forces of the old Covenant. Additionally, the religious fanaticism of the Hesdurons made them ideal targets for manipulation from Jul. None of the old, refined Sangheili would have considered joining the Storm faction, which was akin to a religious cult, thus explaining their non-presence.
> Frankly, I’m amazed Jul got as far as he did. It’s a testament to his cunningness and strategic planning, until his assassination of course. I’m still willing to back the body double theory though…
>
> But regarding your thoughts on the aesthetics, I pretty much agree with everything.
There wouldn’t happen to be any sources in the lore about the Sangheili present during Reach and CEA…would there?
Because there is definitely a distinction between this and this.
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> > Regarding their behaviour, to be fair Jul did recruit most of the Storm Elites from Hesduros, which was a remote, backwater colony. That’s like recruiting Rednecks to form the bulk of your military (no offense to any Rednecks who might be reading). Of course you’re gonna get sub-standard troops when compared to the Green Berets and Delta Forces of the old Covenant. Additionally, the religious fanaticism of the Hesdurons made them ideal targets for manipulation from Jul. None of the old, refined Sangheili would have considered joining the Storm faction, which was akin to a religious cult, thus explaining their non-presence.
> > Frankly, I’m amazed Jul got as far as he did. It’s a testament to his cunningness and strategic planning, until his assassination of course. I’m still willing to back the body double theory though…
> >
> > But regarding your thoughts on the aesthetics, I pretty much agree with everything.
>
> There wouldn’t happen to be any sources in the lore about the Sangheili present during Reach and CEA…would there?
> Because there is definitely a distinction between this and this.
The Sangheili on both Reach and Installation 04 were from the Fleet of Particular Justice. Personally I think any visual differences were relatively minor and had more to do with artistic license than anything.
If you want to see previous discussions here are a few topics from the past:
> 2533274900668879;6:
> The problem with the new Elites are two-fold;
> - Firstly there’s the character based flaws, which you noted, including their behavior (particularly during cutscenes) and their vocals. The Storm Elites behave like Brutes, without the untapped ferocity. They are presented as laughably incompetent regardless of rank and they all have…well…brutish voices and speech patterns, which actively goes against prior representations of the species.
> I’m all for different variations of Sangheili, adapted to different colony’s environments, etc. But not at the cost of the originals. The Skirmishers are a good example, introduce variants that play differently alongside the regulars, don’t just ‘art’ over everything for the sake of ‘individuality’.-snip-
Let Volir has a very deep and bass voice and it works out fine for him. Everything else I more or less agree with.
> 2533274900668879;6:
> The problem with the new Elites are two-fold;
> - Firstly there’s the character based flaws, which you noted, including their behavior (particularly during cutscenes) and their vocals. The Storm Elites behave like Brutes, without the untapped ferocity. They are presented as laughably incompetent regardless of rank and they all have…well…brutish voices and speech patterns, which actively goes against prior representations of the species.
> I’m all for different variations of Sangheili, adapted to different colony’s environments, etc. But not at the cost of the originals. The Skirmishers are a good example, introduce variants that play differently alongside the regulars, don’t just ‘art’ over everything for the sake of ‘individuality’. - Secondly, there’s aesthetics from a gameplay standpoint; namely their silhouette and color palette.
> The Elites, since CE, have followed a color to rank system that remained solid until Halo 4. Blue for Minors, Red for Majors, White for Ultras, etc, etc.
> This was deliberate as it allowed you, the player, to visually identify the rank of any given Elite from a distance, even at a glance. One flash of color and you know the shield strength, potential loadout, and viable responses to that Elite.
> In Halo 4 and 5, Minors are dark blue, Majors are an even darker blue with purple highlights, Rangers are a lighter shade of blue…you can begin to see the problem already. Generals are a darker gold instead of a bright Yellow, and Stealth Elites…well, they’re my exception to the rule since they are hard to spot by design, naturally.
> Then there’s the armor designs, which, much like the forerunner architecture, get lost in detail. They lack easily defined attributes because there are too many to account for, each design whether impressive or not (I like the Stealth designs) is a visual bombardment of curves and lines, they lack definition, and combined with the samey color palette, they tend to blend into one another.
> This isn’t good for gameplay. A General with a Concussion Rifle will, at a glance, be indistinguishable from the Minor with a storm rifle beside them, because the colors aren’t distinct enough to catch your attention, and the designs are too similar to differentiate them. This lack of information given to the player leads to less risks being taken, less subconcious decision making, and ultimately boils every firefight with the Elites into trial and error fire from cover.
> - Which is boring.*So, yeah, there’s more to the issue than just subjective taste, unfortunately.
Well said. I guess in and of themselves I like the new ones’ design. But in cutscenes and from a gameplay perspective, they are not as fun or accurate as the old ones.
Also I totally agree about them being incompetent, thanks to their stupid new voice in h5. They sound goofy, not like accomplished respectful warriors
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> 5 years old? … I was in college when Halo 2 came out. So this is how you just made me feel. lol.
>
> On topic though, I really like the new Zealot armor. Anatomically, I prefer the Halo 2 Anniversary/Halo Wars 2 look. Armor is armor, that changes. Evolution shouldn’t be taking place … well, Arbiter should look like the Arbiter. Although, I don’t remember anyone complaining when Lord Hood went from looking like a toe to a potato between Halo 2 & Halo 3, but that wasn’t deliberate. This is a deliberate artistic change that many are pretty outspoken against.
>
> http://i.imgur.com/wpvpc7e.gifv (it’s a joke)
>
> It’s not that they’re bad. They look pretty cool, especially in Halo 4’s CG stuff. It’s just that they’re different. A lot of people think they changed Halo’s look too much too quickly.
Yea I agree about the anatomical part. H2A was my favorite version.
I like the new design even though the change was a little bit jarring at first.
If they wanted to return to the old design they could just have different phenotypes like with Kig Yar’s, and you know, humans.
For me, it’s more about the head/face design than anything, that’s off putting. I don’t mind a variety of Sangheili body types; from Reach’s more agile look, to 4/5’s more bulky appearance, both work for me as I’d imagine the Sangehili would be just as diverse as any other species depending on their role and background.
But the head/face design in 4/5 is just awkward and unappealing. I can’t help but see space beluga whales with the overly rounded foreheads and lack of definition of the skull and neck, along with the strangely placed and shaped mandibles and the inclusion of molars. Even if molars did make sense (which to me, it doesn’t - why have molars if you’re unable to chew/grind your food?), it just doesn’t look right on a species that should come off entirely predatorial.
The Sangheili in 4/5 also have an unintelligent look about them, especially in their eyes. Now take Halo 2 Anniversary/Halo Wars 2 design and it’s pretty much perfect and exactly how I’d envision the Elites to look in updated visuals. They look like intelligent predators with a sharp, sleek head design that resembles more of a snake/shark (which if memory serves me right, they were always supposed to look shark like in appearance when wearing their helmets). They carry themselves with purpose and intelligence, which would immediately negate that Brutish, Jiralhanae behavior most complain about. Let 'Volir looked wonderful in contrast beside Atriox (aside from his submissive arching, but lets face it, Atriox just commands that much dominance for it to come off natural, almost like a Megatron/Starscream contrast in a way).
I’ve never hated the new design. I don’t like it. But I don’t hate it either. Armor-wise though, I do love the Hesduros Zealot armor.
I think the Halo 2 Anniversary/Halo Wars 2 Elites are perfect. Hands-down the best version of Elite IMO.
I don’t care how they look. They were always the same to me.
and I agree the Elite Zealot looks badass!
I wish I could say there being something better in the newest iteration of elites but I think almost every change they’ve made has made them worse. Elites have turned are mentally, physically and armor wise almost brutes now. I mean if they wore halo 3 brute armors I would like it more than what they use now.
I can for the most part tolerate them as a sub - species of Elite, but I just cannot get over their mouths. I think the halo 2A and Reach Elites look the best as they felt more “nobler” and not as brutish as the new ones.
Not a fan of the Halo 4/5 Elites at all. My favourite depiction of the Elites is a toss up between Reach and H2A/Halo Wars 2.