New Directions and Halo Fans in general.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I just wanted to write this to address some of the people I see daily commenting on YouTube videos of Halo. It’s long, so please bear with me.

First of all, not all of the people who don’t mind change are new to the series, ‘low ranking noobs’, ‘casual gamers’ or ‘amateurs’. (As opposed to the ‘level 50s’, ‘pro gamers’ and clearly MLG level hardcore guys who hate everything new and different to the series, even a 5-shot BR…)

Using those terms to describe people who aren’t campaigning against 343i and the new games/additions is derogatory and offensive. People who like change, different takes, additions and directions to a franchise are the ones who keep franchises going, not the ones who would rather stay in 2004 for the rest of their lives.

If everyone who played Halo 2&3 said; (like I’ve seen many a “Halo fan” saying on YouTube)

“** this **** 343i -Yoink!- company making ****** games for noobs and casual gamers… Real Halo players and pros like Bungie and Halo 2…” etc…

Then Halo wouldn’t be a viable franchise any more because those people wouldn’t be buying into it. The vast majority of people who support Halo now and buy the new games, in my opinion, fit into one of three categories:

  1. People who played the older titles and, for some reason, only play the new game just log onto forums and complain about how they hate Microsoft for “ruining Halo” and tell everyone else how “pro” they are and that people who like it are “casual gamers only”.

  2. People who just bought into the series and don’t know what to expect. These peoples will either become lifelong fans of the series and will go on to support it in the future or just drop it where it stands.

  3. (The rarest group of people in my opinion…)
    People who have always been huge fans of these series and like it for everything that it is. Story, campaign, characters, universe, differing multiplayer variations, forge… Everything that has always made Halo, Halo.

Everyone needs to stop hating on Microsoft and 343i. Yes they made a few mistakes but guys, this was their first game. Doesn’t every company make mistakes with their first product?

343i have made the franchise bigger than it ever has been, the universe deeper than it ever has been. They’ve signed two of the best sci-fi authors ever to write 6 new books based on one game. Dark Horse has been signed on for three coming book series. A short TV series has already been made and Spielberg has been commissioned to do another. They have plans for another two, if not more, games.

343i are doing everything they can to make Halo as good as it can be. Yes it’s different, yes it’s always going to cause controversy among fans but without them I wouldn’t be writing this because there wouldn’t be any more games coming out.

Just give them a break, they’re awesome. The games are awesome.

Peace, Halo fans.

2

> 3. (The rarest group of people in my opinion…)
> People who have always been huge fans of these series and like it for everything that it is. Story, campaign, characters, universe, differing multiplayer variations, forge… Everything that has always made Halo, Halo.

We’re not as rare as you think, there are still a lot of us who still like everything that makes up Halo.

3

Where is option number four? You know, fans who have loved the Halo series, but are disappointed as of late with recent games, books and so on? I certainly don’t come onto the forums to tell people how they ruined the game, but I also certainly do not think most of 343’s recent works are awesome.

4

I’m in that third group. I’ve been playing Halo since the first game released, and I was 5 at the time. I don’t tell 343 how to do their job, and I’m actually quite interested to see what they’ll do going forward. I can’t say Halo 4 was perfect, but at least they tried something new. It was a big risk, but they went ahead anyway. I commend them for sticking to their guns throughout the games development. The story was excellent, though I admit that for those who havn’t read the books it could be quite confusing.

5

> Everyone needs to stop hating on Microsoft and 343i. Yes they made a few mistakes but guys, this was their first game. Doesn’t every company make mistakes with their first product?

I don’t hate 343I simply because they are just people doing their job. I’m sure most are pretty chill people.

Regardless, the game itself is still sub-par, all due to bad conventions Bungie established, things 343I failed to improve on, and things 343I just copied that simply don’t work.

It’s also not their first game, and completely flipping the franchise on its head is not a “mistake”, it’s an intentional design choice and an understatement.

> tell everyone else how “pro” they are and that people who like it are “casual gamers only”.

It’s a casual game relative to other titles. Not debatable.
The competitive scene is completely dead.

> 343i have made the franchise bigger than it ever has been, the universe deeper than it ever has been.

The universe might be bigger than it has ever been, the multiplayer leaves much to be desired in regards to public reception.

6

i dont really fit into any of the groups above. i love the halo franchise i’ve played all the games read some of the books and the ones i havent read i’ve read the detailed plot summaries mostly just cuz i cant stand to read books. there were a few things storywise that i didnt care for but overall really impressive. but out of all that i really only hated 1 thing: halo 4’s multiplayer. it just felt like it wasnt made for halo fans. it felt like it was made to bring players from other games in and thats why i think we’re seeing all these outbursts. i feel most of us dont hate change we just want change that benefits halo.

7

I’d like to make a few points:

  • From the very beginning of your post, I immediately felt it was essentially another paradoxical post that claims to denounce denigration by being denigrating itself. Eventually this post can be summarized with: “I like the game and those who don’t agree with me are pros/haters/not true halo fans that are detrimental to the community”, and it still doesn’t bring any argument other than “the game is like it is now because it had to be what it is”.

  • Somebody already highlighted this: there’s a fourth category you forgot. Not mentionning it is intellectually dishonest. People who have always been huge fans of Halo in every aspect, like you are, but who think that Halo 4 deviates too much from what made them adhere to the series. These people do not deserve less attention than the other categories do.

  • I am personally what people would call a casual gamer, although “casual” is quite an inaccurate term. I started with CE when I was 13, but I first subscribed to live Gold after Reach release and I’m not a huge gamer. In other words, I’m not a pro, not a competitive player and not a Halo 2/3 purist. I think 343i did a great job for the campaign, the expansion of the universe and the story for instance. But I dislike many of the new additions/changes (not innovations) added in the Halo 4 matchmaking, for many precise reasons that are explained in details throughout the forum. That being said, I’d like you to respect my right to have my own opinion as much as I respect the fact that you like the changes made in multiplayer.

There is never a single way of thinking, you have your opinion, but the truth is not exclusively yours. We are all halo fans on this forum so please don’t be disrespectful of people who think differently.

8

> > 3. (The rarest group of people in my opinion…)
> > People who have always been huge fans of these series and like it for everything that it is. Story, campaign, characters, universe, differing multiplayer variations, forge… Everything that has always made Halo, Halo.
>
> We’re not as rare as you think, there are still a lot of us who still like everything that makes up Halo.

I am in this group.

And to be honest, I have enjoyed both REACH and Halo 4. I think H4 campaign was great.

However I do want Halo to return to an Arena Shooter. I like the game to evolve from Halo 3, but not be Halo 3. I like to see all the elements that REACH and Halo 4 have added that have or could improve Halo. Some of these features may have been broken or poorly executed in these games, but they have great potential.

Halo still has lots of potential.

Halo 4 was a great game, but failed in some areas. The great news is 343 know this, and I believe or hope that they will try their best so not make the same mistakes again.

Only time will tell.

9

> First of all, not all of the people who don’t mind change are new to the series, ‘low ranking noobs’, ‘casual gamers’ or ‘amateurs’. (As opposed to the ‘level 50s’, ‘pro gamers’ and clearly MLG level hardcore guys who hate everything new and different to the series, even a 5-shot BR…)
>
> Using those terms to describe people who aren’t campaigning against 343i and the new games/additions is derogatory and offensive. People who like change, different takes, additions and directions to a franchise are the ones who keep franchises going, not the ones who would rather stay in 2004 for the rest of their lives.

Or the ones that kill a franchise.

> If everyone who played Halo 2&3 said; (like I’ve seen many a “Halo fan” saying on YouTube)
>
> “** this **** 343i -Yoink!- company making ****** games for noobs and casual gamers… Real Halo players and pros like Bungie and Halo 2…” etc…
>
> Then Halo wouldn’t be a viable franchise any more because those people wouldn’t be buying into it.

Halo probably won’t be a viably franchise if Halo 5 fails as a game, and as a means to sell Xbox Ones.

> The vast majority of people who support Halo now and buy the new games, in my opinion, fit into one of three categories:
>
> 1. People who played the older titles and, for some reason, only play the new game just log onto forums and complain about how they hate Microsoft for “ruining Halo” and tell everyone else how “pro” they are and that people who like it are “casual gamers only”.

Can someone not be critical of a franchise they have been apart of the past 12 years, and seeing it spiral down since the second game (in terms of quality)

> 2. People who just bought into the series and don’t know what to expect. These peoples will either become lifelong fans of the series and will go on to support it in the future or just drop it where it stands.

If those players end up why Halo will become another generic shooter, then I hope they drop it where it stands.

> 3. (The rarest group of people in my opinion…)
> People who have always been huge fans of these series and like it for everything that it is. Story, campaign, characters, universe, differing multiplayer variations, forge… Everything that has always made Halo, Halo.

So fanboys?

Everyone doesn’t like something about something. Those that blindly support everything in a series will just make matters worse.

> Everyone needs to stop hating on Microsoft and 343i. Yes they made a few mistakes but guys, this was their first game. Doesn’t every company make mistakes with their first product?

343 knew EXACTLY what they were getting into, and still produced something lackluster with 3-4 years of prep time. You expect them to make something better in 2 years? Get real.

> 343i have made the franchise bigger than it ever has been, the universe deeper than it ever has been. They’ve signed two of the best sci-fi authors ever to write 6 new books based on one game. Dark Horse has been signed on for three coming book series. A short TV series has already been made and Spielberg has been commissioned to do another. They have plans for another two, if not more, games.

That’s excellent for EU, but what about the games? With 2 years of development, do you really expect 343 to produce a story with depth and translate that to Campaign?

> 343i are doing everything they can to make Halo as good as it can be. Yes it’s different, yes it’s always going to cause controversy among fans but without them I wouldn’t be writing this because there wouldn’t be any more games coming out.

Everything they are doing isn’t good enough. Look at Halo 4’s daily population.

> Just give them a break, they’re awesome. The games are awesome.

Halo CE, 2, and somewhat 3 were awesome. Reach and 4? Nope.

10

I must say I am in group 3. So we are not entirely rare but we are very much less vocal than the other groups. I will agree with cobra that there should be a forth group added.

While I do agree that we need to tone down the hate that is spewed on these pages I do believe everyone has the right to point out their opinions. 343 made some mistakes and has admitted to them whereas a lot of other companies would said I would be deeply appreciative if you would refrain from speaking. and enjoy what we gave you. I think that takes some serious guts to do.

Halo will always be Halo as long as it has the amazing universe that it exists in.

11

Not entirely sure what group I fall in but try to figure it out if you want.

Halo ce - Reach I actually enjoyed. Even Halo wars and ODST. ODST and Wars were different because they were meant to be different but they still felt like halo, a little bit. odst did at least. Wars was just Wars. I absolutely hate halo 4. Probably wont pick it up again.

It dawned on me that people say that because people hate the changes of halo 4 that they just want a halo 3.5. It doesn’t really mean that because think of it this way. If you took a Modern Warfare game and added arena shooter elements, would people like the change or not? Strip the classes, put the guns on the map, essentially same starts. Would they like it? Uhm… I’m going to guess that, that game would be dropped and returned in record times. Thats basically what Halo 4 did. Yes people want change, but change for the better. Innovating isn’t the most important part of building a game. It is very important but it isn’t the most important. Keeping the core part of the game and appealing to the masses normally will get you big hits. Thats what CoD does. Halo 4 pretty much left a ton of the core values behind. Normally appealing to the masses like how CoD does, basically requires updates and little innovation. New maps, balanced guns (new guns(a few)), balanced gameplay, maybe updated graphics (just a little). Thats what was pretty much expected of halo 4. Most of the competitiveness is lost but I don’t really want to explain that because that is in different forms, but, that was lost with the randomness of halo 4. Yeah, I understand where they thought that a random ordinance drop would randomly fall out of the sky and it would be awesome but it should have been saved for something like a mess around playlist. Almost like a griffball kind of game. Could call it Infinity Slayer or something goofy like that? or Random Slayer.

I want change and I feel like most people do, but people want the right change, not carbon copies of different games done worse.

12

Where’s the “Fan” option, where we actually have legitimate complaints of the direction of the series that isn’t mindlessly saying, “This isn’t Halo!”?

I’m all for new stuff, but it has to be within good reason as to why it should be included. Possibly getting a crappy reward for the same effort isn’t a good thing to put in. Stun-Locking Vehicles isn’t a good thing to put in. Hacking many gametypes, good features in Forge, and gameplay elements out the game isn’t a good thing to put in.

As much as I really enjoy this series, and I thank 343 for continuing the franchise, I have the right to say, “No! I don’t like X feature because Y reasons!”. You and everyone else also share that right, so long as they are within guidelines of this website’s forums.

13

> > 3. (The rarest group of people in my opinion…)
> > People who have always been huge fans of these series and like it for everything that it is. Story, campaign, characters, universe, differing multiplayer variations, forge… Everything that has always made Halo, Halo.
>
> We’re not as rare as you think, there are still a lot of us who still like everything that makes up Halo.

Unfortunately we are rare, or at least not as inclined to be so vocal, on these forums.

I further agree with OP. Way too many selfproclaimed “pro’s” who want Halo to be catered exactly to their liking…not caring at all that other parts of the community might have a different way of playing Halo. Too many sides wanting the next Halo to be catered exclusively to them, denying the other sides to have a little bit of what they like.

And even if they would get a perfect H3 clone in terms of gameplay, they still wouldn’t like it. Things about nostalgia and such. Or perhaps it wouldn’t play well on new maps or whatever.

Too many close minded folks on these forums. It’s a shame.

And no, even as a day 1 fan of Halo, I don’t neccecarily agree with the direction H4 took in some aspects…nor do I think H2, H3, Reach or ODST was flawless. Even H2, which I hold to be the best shooter ever, is flawed. I talked about it on the B.net forums in those days. But I’d never try to be so stubbornly against change as a lot of the fans these days are.

14

> > > 3. (The rarest group of people in my opinion…)
> > > People who have always been huge fans of these series and like it for everything that it is. Story, campaign, characters, universe, differing multiplayer variations, forge… Everything that has always made Halo, Halo.
> >
> > We’re not as rare as you think, there are still a lot of us who still like everything that makes up Halo.
>
> Unfortunately we are rare, or at least not as inclined to be so vocal, on these forums.
>
> I further agree with OP. Way too many selfproclaimed “pro’s” who want Halo to be catered exactly to their liking…not caring at all that other parts of the community might have a different way of playing Halo. Too many sides wanting the next Halo to be catered exclusively to them, denying the other sides to have a little bit of what they like.
>
> And even if they would get a perfect H3 clone in terms of gameplay, they still wouldn’t like it. Things about nostalgia and such. Or perhaps it wouldn’t play well on new maps or whatever.
>
> Too many <mark>close minded folks</mark> on these forums. It’s a shame.
>
> And no, even as a day 1 fan of Halo, I don’t neccecarily agree with the direction H4 took in some aspects…nor do I think H2, H3, Reach or ODST was flawless. Even H2, which I hold to be the best shooter ever, is flawed. I talked about it on the B.net forums in those days. But I’d never try to be so stubbornly against change as a lot of the fans these days are.

Well, you saw the population of Halo 4? And you think all this people are just close minded? Or is there maybe ehm… I dont know… something extremly wrong with Halo 4s direction? You know like looking through walls and random powerweapons everywhere?

People dont want Halo 3.5, thats what you people cant understand. We want Halo 5 to BUILD ON Halo 123s Core gameplay and some cool new features that… I dont know… dont break gameplay?

@OP: Terrible categories.

  1. Hate everything categorie.
  2. Just buy the game and play it categorie.
  3. Like it just because its Halo categorie.

Sound nice.

15

I’m a fourth-category person as well. I liked Halo 1, 2, and 3 multiplayers for a reason. Halo 4 multiplayer lacked that reason, so I don’t like it as much.

16

> > 3. (The rarest group of people in my opinion…)
> > People who have always been huge fans of these series and like it for everything that it is. Story, campaign, characters, universe, differing multiplayer variations, forge… Everything that has always made Halo, Halo.
>
> We’re not as rare as you think, there are still a lot of us who still like everything that makes up Halo.

Amen.

I enjoy the universe and the change. Played Halo when it was called Marathon. I got no issue with the direction of Halo under the charge of 343i.

It is not perfect, and it will never be.

I am fine with that.

17

I have Two thigs to say to sum up my thoughts:

  1. What Weird Stealth and Cobra said

  2. Halo is FAR from over

18

I don’t know why I even post or visit this forum, I guess because I so badly want Halo to be good again.

I keep getting banned for trashing Halo 4 lol, but honestly this game needs to be trashed because our voices need to be heard. The game is totally mediocre and considering Halo used to be the most talked about franchise and everyone was dying to make the next “Halo Killer”, well wtf happened?

I’ll tell you very simply: the game lacks nearly everything that made Halo CE-3 awesome.

New features in Halo 4? Nope, just blatant lazy rip offs of other games that Halo fans aren’t interested in

Old features returning and improved? For the most part no, customization has been stripped down completely.

Familiar UI that has been fine tuned and is objectively awesome? Nope, lets make a crappy UI that looks messy.

Old Halo theme that we all love? Nope, lets make new music that isn’t even audible. And let’s ensure that our menu music is depressing.

Campaign replay-ability? Nope, skulls are gone and encounters are linear. Mainly a corridor shooter now.

Awesome co-op experience? Nope, in fact split screen co-op is hardly playable because the frame rate drops so low.

Competitive multi-player? Nope, and the reasons could go on for pages as have been discussed before

yea…it’s not the same game. The fans made this game what it was and we’ve been completely ignored. /rant

19

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if 343 didn’t intentionally set out to break Halo 4 for the sake of Halo 5.

Consider: a title coming out a year in advance of a next gen console, and a developer who likely had an inside track for that console. The objective in that situation is to sell consoles. To do that, you need a game like Halo CE was to the original Xbox, and Halo 3 was to the 360. Perhaps they had a vision for what Halo 5 could be, but weren’t sure how to make it all work. So they threw a bunch of ingredients into the current pot, stirred, let it stew, and then got a better idea of what Halo XB1 should/should not be.

Wouldn’t you rather they got it wrong now, on struggling hardware and an old engine, than with the title that will truly define Halo for the next decade?

Sure, we have a right to be angry with Halo 4 if we didn’t enjoy it for xyz reasons. But expecting consistent exponential franchise improvement is as foolhardy as expecting the next game to suck because the last one did. All I’m saying is, it’s not the worst environment for improvement. I can’t help but think 343 has been keenly aware of what direction Halo 5 needs to go in, if only because of the mistakes or overreaches made in Halo 4.

20

So for those of you who have an issue with the idea of returning Halo to the core gameplay that made it Halo and getting rid of all the gimmicks and everything that was used to lower the skill gap, I challenge you to watch this video:

If you like Halo and can watch this without getting goosebumps there is something wrong with you. This is the Str8 Ripping montage from 2009. This came out 2 years after Halo 3 was released and the game was still in its prime. Halo 4 was out of its prime after 2 months. This montage is what Halo 4 is completely lacking because of the gimmicky unbalanced garbage that was introduced, and the fact that the core gameplay mechanics are not those of a Halo game, but a class based Call of Duty Clone.

Watching this video you can see how skilled these players are, and it makes me personally want to play more and get that good. The competitive scene is completely dead on Halo 4, and it is something that used to bring a lot of attention to the game during the Halo 2 and 3 era (because it was the flagship of MLG, and THE ARENA shooter to play. You could see your favorite pro’s on National television. That is how big it was.).

Hopefully 343i realizes this and makes a very concerted effort to fix the gameplay and revive what was so great about Halo.

(If your name ends with ammy I wouldn’t waste your time watching the video because either way you are going to come up with some incredibly intelligent reason for why Halo 4 is inherently more competitive than Halo CE, 2 and 3 combined.)