Netduma stats confirm issues with Halo 5 netcode

I recently bought a Netduma router. Due to some of the features, you can limit the servers you connect to and monitor the ping. Even when playing servers close to me, there are significant latency spikes. These latency spikes are typically 4 to 5 times higher than that of the lowest ping in a game. So if my low end ping in a game is 32, it’s spiking over 150 ms in many instances when I engage an opponent. When gaming with friends and dealing with a server that is 70ms on the low end, my latency spikes have gone as high as 300ms. After multiple correspondences with Netduma and giving them my stats, there’s nothing left to do on my end to minimize it any more than I have. I can simply limit the matchmaking to only hit servers close to me so that the exponential effect of latency spikes is minimized (like going from 20 to 80ms instead).

This apparently isn’t a factor with all ISPs or all areas. I have Comast but not everyone with Comcast has this issue. Peer to peer in previous Halos had more consistency than dedicated servers with the current netcode. While this hasn’t effected everyone, it’s impacted a large percent of the population. The current connection to the dedicated servers just doesn’t work for everyone.

There is absolutely nothing I and anyone in a similar situation to me can do. I’ve gone as far as increasing Comcast speeds and spending an additional $200 on a router that supposedly controls lag. This issue doesn’t impact me in other games so it’s absolutely a Halo 5 netcode issue. Would be nice after 2 years for 343 to finally acknowledge they know this issue is out there and are working on something that will be in place by Halo 6.

I have very few issues with poor internet. Are you running ethernet to xbox? Ports open?

I also experience big lag spikes that result in warping or rubberbanding that usually happens at least once in lots of games. I checked for bufferbloat and my connection got good results for that not being an issue. I have experienced lag with the servers in the past before, but it was usually only something that happened every now and then and now it’s happening on a regular basis since 5-6 months ago.

> 2533274802237072;2:
> I have very few issues with poor internet. Are you running ethernet to xbox? Ports open?

I’m wired. Open Nat. Buffer bloat scores an A when I test it (after making modifications). Ping is good during general tests.

It’s been proven multiple times that there’s a problem with the netcode, nice to see more investigation.

When 3/4 people in a fireteam randomly “lose connection” from a game all at the same time, even though they’re from different areas, everyone else is unaffected & their party chat is working perfectly fine, that’s not an ISP problem.

When it perpetually happens to similar parties all across the world at a rate significantly higher than any other game they play together (ie. what random chance could account for), and the company continues to deny an issue… that’s pure negligence & dishonesty.

> 2728296738546254;4:
> > 2533274802237072;2:
> > I have very few issues with poor internet. Are you running ethernet to xbox? Ports open?
>
> I’m wired. Open Nat. Buffer bloat scores an A when I test it (after making modifications). Ping is good during general tests.

Sent you a PM on the subject.

> 2533274802237072;6:
> > 2728296738546254;4:
> > > 2533274802237072;2:
> > > I have very few issues with poor internet. Are you running ethernet to xbox? Ports open?
> >
> > I’m wired. Open Nat. Buffer bloat scores an A when I test it (after making modifications). Ping is good during general tests.
>
> Sent you a PM on the subject.

Appreciate the attempt. There’s something deeper than that. I don’t use a Comcast router. It’s Arris modem with Netduma router. I’ve tried different modems and the problem is the same. I’ve traced my connections and to hit the East coast (New York) or even Chicago, it first sends me to the Iowa server, then a Washington server in the utmost top NW corner of the US, then back to the East coast. This is a consistent way they route me to my local servers. Chicago is close by and should stay in the mid 20s however spikes like crazy and is choppy as heck.

Conversely, I’ve tested servers in Battlefield and if I do hop servers, it’s at least heading in the same direction. There’s absolutely something wrong with the way they route me (and apparently others) but it only happens in Halo 5. Ping spikes in Battlefield going from Michigan to California might take me from low 70’s to high 70’s. Ping spikes in Halo 5 take me from low 30s to over 150ms sometimes. On really bad days, I’ve hit over 300ms…and this is to servers that I would otherwise ping under 40ms to. Even then, the amount of the spike doesn’t seem to matter as much as the variance. Even when it’s only spiking from 20s to as high as 80, games are far choppier than being consistently in the 70s on a more distant server. After corresponding with Netduma, they said I would need to switch ISPs to resolve the issue which make no -Yoink!- sense considering Comcast is a major ISP and is the only fast ISP in my area.

You should ask Josh Menke (aka ZaedynFel) under his weekly Matchmaking Feedback threads about his involvement with the game’s netcode and whether he knows of any improvements that are being designed into Halo 6.

> 2728296738546254;7:
> > 2533274802237072;6:
> > > 2728296738546254;4:
> > > > 2533274802237072;2:
> > > > I have very few issues with poor internet. Are you running ethernet to xbox? Ports open?
> > >
> > > I’m wired. Open Nat. Buffer bloat scores an A when I test it (after making modifications). Ping is good during general tests.
> >
> > Sent you a PM on the subject.
>
> Appreciate the attempt. There’s something deeper than that. I don’t use a Comcast router. It’s Arris modem with Netduma router. I’ve tried different modems and the problem is the same. I’ve traced my connections and to hit the East coast (New York) or even Chicago, it first sends me to the Iowa server, then a Washington server in the utmost top NW corner of the US, then back to the East coast. This is a consistent way they route me to my local servers. Chicago is close by and should stay in the mid 20s however spikes like crazy and is choppy as heck.
>
> Conversely, I’ve tested servers in Battlefield and if I do hop servers, it’s at least heading in the same direction. There’s absolutely something wrong with the way they route me (and apparently others) but it only happens in Halo 5. Ping spikes in Battlefield going from Michigan to California might take me from low 70’s to high 70’s. Ping spikes in Halo 5 take me from low 30s to over 150ms sometimes. On really bad days, I’ve hit over 300ms…and this is to servers that I would otherwise ping under 40ms to. Even then, the amount of the spike doesn’t seem to matter as much as the variance. Even when it’s only spiking from 20s to as high as 80, games are far choppier than being consistently in the 70s on a more distant server. After corresponding with Netduma, they said I would need to switch ISPs to resolve the issue which make no -Yoink!- sense considering Comcast is a major ISP and is the only fast ISP in my area.

Wow, that’s just crazy. This sounds like some very valuable information that 343’s network guys could use.
I would definitely pass that along to Josh, as mentioned by eLantern.
His link is to last week’s locked thread though, here’s the new one.

Sounds like an ISP issue, could also be your local node, or the wiring between your wall and the street. Very hard to pinpoint exactly where unless you get Comcast on board with helping you sort it out. I also experience this - getting someone to help is next to impossible, default tech support just tell you to turn it on and off again, if I’m lucky I can get them to restart their equipment at the exchange, which for me, does help for a little while (likely because it boots off whoever in my street is hogging everything).

Basically you need to get your ISP to upgrade their equipment at your exchange, or get them to route your connection differently.

One thing I’ve had success with is changing DNS. Try google’s DNS’s - 8.8.8.8 primary and 8.8.4.4 secondary. This has improved things for me a bit.

Hope this helps. Maybe ask Josh if he knows any specific thing we could take to our ISP’s and ask them, he did mention the team have been monitoring latency spike problems and that it’s ISP related during congested times.

Hope this helps…

> 2533274834881503;5:
> It’s been proven multiple times that there’s a problem with the netcode, nice to see more investigation.
>
> When 3/4 people in a fireteam randomly “lose connection” from a game all at the same time, even though they’re from different areas, everyone else is unaffected & their party chat is working perfectly fine, that’s not an ISP problem.
>
> When it perpetually happens to similar parties all across the world at a rate significantly higher than any other game they play together (ie. what random chance could account for), and the company continues to deny an issue… that’s pure negligence & dishonesty.

I am curious. Are they denying or have they simply not responded? When I try to find info on how this has been dealt with I don’t find much. But I am doing a quick search before I post this. Knowing you, you will have a lot more info. :wink:

> 2533274805962294;10:
> Sounds like an ISP issue, could also be your local node, or the wiring between your wall and the street. Very hard to pinpoint exactly where unless you get Comcast on board with helping you sort it out. I also experience this - getting someone to help is next to impossible, default tech support just tell you to turn it on and off again, if I’m lucky I can get them to restart their equipment at the exchange, which for me, does help for a little while (likely because it boots off whoever in my street is hogging everything).
>
> Basically you need to get your ISP to upgrade their equipment at your exchange, or get them to route your connection differently.
>
> One thing I’ve had success with is changing DNS. Try google’s DNS’s - 8.8.8.8 primary and 8.8.4.4 secondary. This has improved things for me a bit.
>
> Hope this helps. Maybe ask Josh if he knows any specific thing we could take to our ISP’s and ask them, he did mention the team have been monitoring latency spike problems and that it’s ISP related during congested times.
>
> Hope this helps…

Thanks for the tips. I’ll give it a try. Looking forward to the day I have more ISP options.

I do think there’s something additional and specific to Halo 5 that’s making it worse. When trying to track Overwatch, there wasn’t severe lag spikes. I was hitting California servers in Overwatch (which are 3 times further away) but at least the ping was consistent. Also when Halo 5 launched, I’d get good connection far more often. Now it rarely happens. Fact that it happens at all says to me it’s possible with this isp. Yesterday I had a game where shots weren’t counting at all until a teammate of mine dropped. When he dropped, suddenly everything connected. Seems to me there’s also some sort of prioritization going on where some people are getting their data counted while others not so much.

> 2728296738546254;12:
> > 2533274805962294;10:
> > Sounds like an ISP issue, could also be your local node, or the wiring between your wall and the street. Very hard to pinpoint exactly where unless you get Comcast on board with helping you sort it out. I also experience this - getting someone to help is next to impossible, default tech support just tell you to turn it on and off again, if I’m lucky I can get them to restart their equipment at the exchange, which for me, does help for a little while (likely because it boots off whoever in my street is hogging everything).
> >
> > Basically you need to get your ISP to upgrade their equipment at your exchange, or get them to route your connection differently.
> >
> > One thing I’ve had success with is changing DNS. Try google’s DNS’s - 8.8.8.8 primary and 8.8.4.4 secondary. This has improved things for me a bit.
> >
> > Hope this helps. Maybe ask Josh if he knows any specific thing we could take to our ISP’s and ask them, he did mention the team have been monitoring latency spike problems and that it’s ISP related during congested times.
> >
> > Hope this helps…
>
> Thanks for the tips. I’ll give it a try. Looking forward to the day I have more ISP options.
>
> I do think there’s something additional and specific to Halo 5 that’s making it worse. When trying to track Overwatch, there wasn’t severe lag spikes. I was hitting California servers in Overwatch (which are 3 times further away) but at least the ping was consistent. Also when Halo 5 launched, I’d get good connection far more often. Now it rarely happens. Fact that it happens at all says to me it’s possible with this isp. Yesterday I had a game where shots weren’t counting at all until a teammate of mine dropped. When he dropped, suddenly everything connected. Seems to me there’s also some sort of prioritization going on where some people are getting their data counted while others not so much.

Most of the time when this happens to me it’s a regional thing. Whenever I hear Spanish the game is lag city. The servers try to compensate for the lag, when the player in Australia or whatever faraway region drops out of the game your back to decent gameplay.

> 2533274843446007;13:
> > 2728296738546254;12:
> > > 2533274805962294;10:
> > > Sounds like an ISP issue, could also be your local node, or the wiring between your wall and the street. Very hard to pinpoint exactly where unless you get Comcast on board with helping you sort it out. I also experience this - getting someone to help is next to impossible, default tech support just tell you to turn it on and off again, if I’m lucky I can get them to restart their equipment at the exchange, which for me, does help for a little while (likely because it boots off whoever in my street is hogging everything).
> > >
> > > Basically you need to get your ISP to upgrade their equipment at your exchange, or get them to route your connection differently.
> > >
> > > One thing I’ve had success with is changing DNS. Try google’s DNS’s - 8.8.8.8 primary and 8.8.4.4 secondary. This has improved things for me a bit.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps. Maybe ask Josh if he knows any specific thing we could take to our ISP’s and ask them, he did mention the team have been monitoring latency spike problems and that it’s ISP related during congested times.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps…
> >
> > Thanks for the tips. I’ll give it a try. Looking forward to the day I have more ISP options.
> >
> > I do think there’s something additional and specific to Halo 5 that’s making it worse. When trying to track Overwatch, there wasn’t severe lag spikes. I was hitting California servers in Overwatch (which are 3 times further away) but at least the ping was consistent. Also when Halo 5 launched, I’d get good connection far more often. Now it rarely happens. Fact that it happens at all says to me it’s possible with this isp. Yesterday I had a game where shots weren’t counting at all until a teammate of mine dropped. When he dropped, suddenly everything connected. Seems to me there’s also some sort of prioritization going on where some people are getting their data counted while others not so much.
>
> Most of the time when this happens to me it’s a regional thing. Whenever I hear Spanish the game is lag city. The servers try to compensate for the lag, when the player in Australia or whatever faraway region drops out of the game your back to decent gameplay.

I thought that 343 said there wasn’t lag compensation. That explains the lag spikes differing depending on who I’m engaging with. Problem is these inconsistent lag spikes result in shots not counting at all. I’ve played on servers where the ping is consistently in the mid 70s and the shots still register as long as it’s consistent. Yet any ping spike from 20 to 80 generate the same result as ping spikes over 200. Shots just stop counting during any spike. I think this goes back to a net code issue although it only effects some gamers.

Also when gaming with friends on the West coast, ping spikes are less and shots count more often on West Coast servers despite being triple distance and 3x higher starting ping. Another sign there’s a net code issue. I wish I could lock onto a California server despite ping being 70ms+ because the overall performance is more consistent.

It’s so hard to nail it down to specifics. So many variables involved. I’m not familiar with netduma routers tracing each hop, but if your isp is routing you to California via Egypt…lol, each hop it takes to reach the destination you’re taking a hit. Plus 343 isn’t broadcasting their server IP addy’s so who knows actually what’s going on for sure. It would be nice if we were more informed about what actually is going on so maybe if it is the end user or ISP we could make adjustments on our end to make gaming a little better. Nothing much we can do if it’s a problem on their end.
Maybe a network troubleshooting section on this site would really be nice, or customer support…:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

The game downloaded slow for me but lag has only been an issue a handful of times for me

I don’t know anything about networking but it would make sense that as a game gets older and the population starts to drop off you could see issues like this. The network had less people in a specific area to connect and has to connect people over greater distances which increases latency. I think it’s strange that we can’t see real time player numbers in this game. Most other games I can think of have the numbers on screen as soon as you scroll over a given playlist.

> 2533274888493768;17:
> I don’t know anything about networking but it would make sense that as a game gets older and the population starts to drop off you could see issues like this. The network had less people in a specific area to connect and has to connect people over greater distances which increases latency. I think it’s strange that we can’t see real time player numbers in this game. Most other games I can think of have the numbers on screen as soon as you scroll over a given playlist.

Yeah but that’s not really what the thread is about.
We already know & expect things to get worse, but what doesn’t make any sense is routing back & forth all over the place before getting to the server.
It’s like if you were to make an amazon purchase and they mail it to california, then to florida, then washington state, then down to texas.
Even if UPS has fewer drivers for some reason, that still doesn’t make any sense.

> 2728296738546254;7:
> > 2533274802237072;6:
> > > 2728296738546254;4:
> > > > 2533274802237072;2:
> > > > I have very few issues with poor internet. Are you running ethernet to xbox? Ports open?
> > >
> > > I’m wired. Open Nat. Buffer bloat scores an A when I test it (after making modifications). Ping is good during general tests.
> >
> > Sent you a PM on the subject.
>
> Appreciate the attempt. There’s something deeper than that. I don’t use a Comcast router. It’s Arris modem with Netduma router. I’ve tried different modems and the problem is the same. I’ve traced my connections and to hit the East coast (New York) or even Chicago, it first sends me to the Iowa server, then a Washington server in the utmost top NW corner of the US, then back to the East coast. This is a consistent way they route me to my local servers. Chicago is close by and should stay in the mid 20s however spikes like crazy and is choppy as heck.
>
> Conversely, I’ve tested servers in Battlefield and if I do hop servers, it’s at least heading in the same direction. There’s absolutely something wrong with the way they route me (and apparently others) but it only happens in Halo 5. Ping spikes in Battlefield going from Michigan to California might take me from low 70’s to high 70’s. Ping spikes in Halo 5 take me from low 30s to over 150ms sometimes. On really bad days, I’ve hit over 300ms…and this is to servers that I would otherwise ping under 40ms to. Even then, the amount of the spike doesn’t seem to matter as much as the variance. Even when it’s only spiking from 20s to as high as 80, games are far choppier than being consistently in the 70s on a more distant server. After corresponding with Netduma, they said I would need to switch ISPs to resolve the issue which make no -Yoink!- sense considering Comcast is a major ISP and is the only fast ISP in my area.

343’s headquarters are in Washington. That’s just a coincidence right?

> 2533274888493768;19:
> > 2728296738546254;7:
> > > 2533274802237072;6:
> > > > 2728296738546254;4:
> > > > > 2533274802237072;2:
> > > > > I have very few issues with poor internet. Are you running ethernet to xbox? Ports open?
> > > >
> > > > I’m wired. Open Nat. Buffer bloat scores an A when I test it (after making modifications). Ping is good during general tests.
> > >
> > > Sent you a PM on the subject.
> >
> > Appreciate the attempt. There’s something deeper than that. I don’t use a Comcast router. It’s Arris modem with Netduma router. I’ve tried different modems and the problem is the same. I’ve traced my connections and to hit the East coast (New York) or even Chicago, it first sends me to the Iowa server, then a Washington server in the utmost top NW corner of the US, then back to the East coast. This is a consistent way they route me to my local servers. Chicago is close by and should stay in the mid 20s however spikes like crazy and is choppy as heck.
> >
> > Conversely, I’ve tested servers in Battlefield and if I do hop servers, it’s at least heading in the same direction. There’s absolutely something wrong with the way they route me (and apparently others) but it only happens in Halo 5. Ping spikes in Battlefield going from Michigan to California might take me from low 70’s to high 70’s. Ping spikes in Halo 5 take me from low 30s to over 150ms sometimes. On really bad days, I’ve hit over 300ms…and this is to servers that I would otherwise ping under 40ms to. Even then, the amount of the spike doesn’t seem to matter as much as the variance. Even when it’s only spiking from 20s to as high as 80, games are far choppier than being consistently in the 70s on a more distant server. After corresponding with Netduma, they said I would need to switch ISPs to resolve the issue which make no -Yoink!- sense considering Comcast is a major ISP and is the only fast ISP in my area.
>
> 343’s headquarters are in Washington. That’s just a coincidence right?

Not sure what you mean by that. But 343 is a MS studios division. But the location of that means nothing. Also xbox live studios is in Seattle Washington. But that also doesn’t mean much. What the OP is saying is a routing issue that is controlled by the game in there network codding. We honestly don’t really know much how this game does anything at all because everything is hidden from the players. Example would be the search preferences. We really don’t know any technical info from that. Nor if that is even working correctly. It is 343 responsibility to make sure there game is codded correctly for all ISPs. And that is where the ball has been dropped. You could see this early on in the games life when Bravo started asking players to give details of there ISP. Things like what type of provider, firmware, brand of routers you name it they were asking. The minute I seen that I knew there was trouble. You never ask things like that after your game has already been released. That is something they should do automatically behind the scenes with the ISPs. Not the players. And it also should be worked out in the beta not after there main title has been released. What the Op is saying is true. And it effects far more players then is known. I can play a game anytime and can spot this happening in about every game to players across the board. And the sad part is most think this is normal. Which it is not…