I don’t think it even needs to be playtested lmao. The formula worked in the original trilogy.
Yea, the difference is, that forge maps aren’t in official rotation. So there is not that much time for people to explore the map over and over again 
I agree timers have made me lazy.
However I like the call out button to instruct team mates to pick up weapons power ups when they arrive.
Lmao. I used to betray teammates when they took a power weapon before me. It made the game funny. Also can’t do that anymore with friendly fire off.
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When people did that to me I used to bark at their heels until they betrayed me again then boot them.
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If you’ve got a map that’s potential match making quality? I would keep going.
Getting hung up on nav markets is a distraction.
Just put them in and go for it.
Good luck.
If I may…
The problem with most tools is not the tools, but the implementation thereof.
I am very much in favor of navpoints being used on static spawn devices. However, this leaves us with a problem that needs a remedy: A lack of explorability. I do not believe removing the navpoints is the solution. The solution should be to introduce atypical powerups / power weapons “At random” in such a way that those who pay attention to the map around them, such as the sky, forerunner lights in the wall, etc., can determine the locations of these spawns.
In old halo, explorability was a given. In new halo, we can google everything, and we have to adjust design to account for this.
frankly, it didn’t make the game funny unless you were doing it to your friends.
I’d lol when randoms did it to me. Winning in social matches didn’t matter to me. Just my performance. I’m not trying to sound biased here just showing yall I’m a different style player I guess.
So randomize weapons and make maps memorizable by location and not weapon? Another thing that would just divide the community. These subdivisions are making Halo as a franchise worse.
I’ve been asking for an option to turn it off.
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Why are they playing against vastly more skilled players?
They should be playing those who are more in line with themselves, no?
Not at all, but how does Navpoints play in on that?
And it can’t be fun for new players to know where and when power items and weapons spawn? They can ignore them all they want, there’s nothing on the map or in the game which force them towards it other than their own desire to get it.
I’d even argue that fighting for power items lead them to be better players, if they choose to go for the weapon / item.
I guess for the first several games it makes things harder to find. I enjoyed when I had an itch to find something.
If they decide to keep them moving forward, a way to balance this could be to keep the navpoints on the sandbox, but change their locations to where not everything is in the middle of the map and remove the timers from them. Maybe that would give new players a sense to where they are located, and also rewarding players that kept the timer in mind.
So it’s not fun for new players as it is now is what you’re saying?
To test new things?
It’s a remnant from the Random Ordnance drops in Halo 4.
Somewhere along the way they figured it maybe helped with map flow and encouraged confrontations at key locations, which they saw as a positive.
I’m certainly on the fence about them.
Yes it will.
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I’m sorry but what is this nonsense?
Literally one of the core design elements of Halo’s PvP sandbox is to try and maintain control of power weapons and keep them out of the enemy team’s hands and in yours.
Halo 2’s Multiplayer Map Pack bonus DvD the pack devs explain this design concept being essential to their map design; describing a good map not just as interesting topography but also as where weapon placements and vehicle placements are.
Damn it sucks when the devs can’t try something new. I feel bad for them. But it also drives the player base down it seems. This makes a lot of players unhappy which makes the devs unhappy.
Not as hardcorely though. There were so many styles of players per game. The noobs, the drunks, the trolls, the scrubs, the sweats, the toxic players, and the vets. Sometimes everyone switched their style of play just to screw around. Lots of people were happy. I thought I would try to take risks more often when I went to check on rocket spawns or sniper spawns. Sometimes they were available and sometimes they weren’t. Sometimes I liked to guess. Then players started beating me to them because they either had the timers in mind before I did or had a lucky guess or spawn before me. Then eventually we both would have the timers in mind and we’d fight over them more. I guess what they’re doing with the navpoints now eliminates the skill gap more, it helps casuals that aren’t sure of the locations, and causes players that are better to win more. But it does one thing different. It removes the ability to take that wild guess. Sometimes I couldn’t get better no matter how much I played. I guess I just liked to have a fighting chance to win a battle every now and then. I wasn’t insane but wasn’t terrible either. Guess I was the neutral player in the middle that had my own little weird place in the game.
Excuse me what?
Even better, look at the thread name.
Alright, I’m coming in here with the Solo-Queuer perspective of a Sweat Lord who’s played Halo their entire life (since CE) to make a big argument on a few things I’ve taken issue with thus far. The first being The Entire Premise of This Post.
The post is brought up to argue against nav points, arguing that it makes the maps less memorable. My argument: Maps like Live-Fire which have non-intuitive names for places like OS-Spawn [Called Turbine) are made more memorable by having a Power Item Spawns linked to them. It’s made a lot more intuitive by actually placing them in the UI when getting into the map.
It’s also said that this kills exploration. I’ve decided I’m going to use two examples for this: One from Infinite and One from Halo 5 Yes; I played the hell outta that game.
I will again use the example of Live Fire from Infinite.
Yes; there are icons and announced timers (this is something I will get back to) for the Tier 3 power items (you know, the ones that can heavily sway the match when in the right hands?) of Snipe Spawn (in Hallway), and OS-Spawn.
(Btw, did you know that Snipe Spawn is called Hallway? I’m sure you’ve called it either Snipes or Top-Mid. Another argument for my memorability point.)
But you know what doesn’t have Navs? Tier 2 items and below. This means there’s no on-screen icons/timers for Bulldog/Heatwave Spawn (in bottom-mid called Tunnel), Drop Wall Spawn (Ramp Side of Brutes near the railing.), Sentinel Beam (also on Turbine), Repulsor Spawn (Yard door of Green House), or Spikes (River side of Green House), Commando, Plasma Pistol, etc. These are not trivial items in the hands of a player who knows how to use them and can give them an advantage when well implemented into their game play. Knowing where to find them is the hallmark of a good player. That is still achieved by exploring and familiarizing yourself with the given map.
In Halo 5’s Example, I’ll use the wonderful map of Plaza God, I can’t wait to see this map officially remade in Infinite.
There is only one item on the map (Yes; One!) that has an icon/timer (and remember, item spawns didn’t have built in timers in this era), and that’s Snipes at Cinema. However, there are a number of very powerful items to look for if you want the advantage. These include the Storm Rifle in Bottom Mid, Plasma Pistol in mid Plaza, The Splinter Grenade in the Hotel Entrance of Plaza, the Light Rifle on Orange Platform, etc. This doesn’t even include OS on Top Mid which also doesn’t have one (I don’t believe it was considered a Tier 3 Item in this game.) and can easily give a good player the advantage they need to team wipe in a single fight.
As to Halo Infinite’s Universal Timer System (in which timers are built into item spawns), I think this is a great thing! In previous Halo games, if you went for an item and it wasn’t there, it could have been taken a minute ago or ten seconds ago, with no real way to tell how long you’d have until that item becomes available again. That guessing is no more, as now we can look at the item spawn and make a decision based on how long it’s going to be until the item spawns again; whether that’s to return when it’s closer to spawn; look for the player that has and fight for the item; or, if it’s close to respawning, lock down and defend the item spawn to secure it for our self. This takes what was previously a mix of guessing and skill and pulls it entirely into the skill component of game play.
Next up, let’s tackle this notion that it removes being able to sneak the item for yourself. All it really does it remove the obfuscation of when power items will spawn. I have played a ton of games where I’ve seen that the power item is close to spawn and decided to secure it for myself. Often times, getting there early means I’ll be able to secure the item uncontested and make a break for it without so much as being seen by the enemy. It seems that a lot of people tend not to notice/change their game play according to when power item spawns are coming up, especially in objective based game modes. Either way, it is objectively more skillful (and more fun imo) to fight for the item and be challenged then to just grab it and sway the match in your favor a la Halo 3. Also, it’s quite literally never forced. You can fight enemies for them after the fact or ignore it entirely, and it also just helps to know when the item has been taken because you can usually tell whether it’s your team or the enemy, which is something you couldn’t always tell in older Halo (ever been on high alert because rockets was taken just to find out your teammate has it anyone?) and also adds to the play dynamic. I saw it said this alerts the enemy team of where you are, which is true, but it’s not like it puts a marker on you. Get out of dodge and play around it, and you’ll be rewarded greatly, but now the enemy knows to expect that fight and not be on alert for no reason.
Overall, this entire thread and most of the arguments against it just seem to boil down to a skill issue and wanting the game to be dumb down instead of remedying that issue. “Every single change that has happened since Halo 3 needs to be undone”? No thanks; I like the AR actually being useful, Plasma Pistol getting single shot attention instead of just being a charge shot or suffer, and the OS/AC equipment change. I like the Looser Feel of Infinite and the Sentinel Beam being Ammo Based. I like being able to see my remaining stamina. If I wanted to play Halo 3, I’d load up MCC.
Btw, you asking for a No Nav Point Playlist is insanely privileged. You’re asking to split up the player base and have matchmaking queued by something incredibly trivial; do better.
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Let’s all remember the legacy titles solved opinion problems like this via game types.
An example of how it could translate to Infinite.
- Slayer - Exactly what we have in Infinite now
- Slayer Pro - Social BR slayer
- Slayer Hardcore - BR slayer, no radar, no on screen nav points, half grenades
I’m still of the opinion that the power weapon timers actually help express skill more effectively because it forces players to fight over the power item though
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