Yeah, the spartan abilitys, map design and radar have made the game simply slow.
Evidence:
4v4’s
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Halo CE: 50k3 game 11, 7 minuteshttps://youtu.be/-dYn4I99OPA
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Halo 5: Xgames gold medal match game 7, 8-minuteshttps://youtu.be/w97hM_0oZYI
2v2’s
1v1’s
Don’t we want a fast game? Halo 5 is not faster than CE and if that was the reason to steal all this stuff from other games(clamber, GP, spartan charge, sprint, slide) it didn’t work. What do you think? Is the slow pace a good thing or a bad thing?
Have you played H5? It’s easily the most fast paced game out of every halo.
> 2533275031939856;2:
> Have you played H5? It’s easily the most fast paced game out of every halo.
Did you look at the CE matches? How they are shorter than H5 matches. There is something happening all the time…
Hey look I cherry picked some match times to try and prove something… H5 is plenty fast. Match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it. To many factors go into match.
> 2533274816788253;4:
> Hey look I cherry picked some match times to try and prove something… H5 is plenty fast. Match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it. To many factors go into match.
Would you make some arguments to support thede statements. Why aren’t match times a good way to try and prove it? What are these “factors”. Talk to some old school pros and they’ll tell you CE is faster.
> 2533274943854776;5:
> > 2533274816788253;4:
> > Hey look I cherry picked some match times to try and prove something… H5 is plenty fast. Match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it. To many factors go into match.
>
>
> Would you make some arguments to support thede statements. Why aren’t match times a good way to try and prove it? What are these “factors”. Talk to some old school pros and they’ll tell you CE is faster.
Size of the map, each player skill set, amount of power weapons on the map… stuff like that. But mostly comes down to player skills or team skill. If one team is way better than the other they can just steam roll them and end the match quickly. But if the teams are more closely matched the game may last longer.
> 2533274816788253;6:
> > 2533274943854776;5:
> > > 2533274816788253;4:
> > > Hey look I cherry picked some match times to try and prove something… H5 is plenty fast. Match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it. To many factors go into match.
> >
> >
> > Would you make some arguments to support thede statements. Why aren’t match times a good way to try and prove it? What are these “factors”. Talk to some old school pros and they’ll tell you CE is faster.
>
>
> Size of the map, each player skill set, amount of power weapons on the map… stuff like that. But mostly comes down to player skills or team skill. If one team is way better than the other they can just steam roll them and end the match quickly. But if the teams are more closely matched the game may last longer.
I agree… Look, the 4v4 H1 match was game 11 and it ended 50-49. That H5 game lasted a minute longer and ended 40-50. But you were originally saying that “match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it”. I chose these matches based on their similarity. Both went to the last game and both are respected tournaments. Maybe we should take a look at Halo CE and what that game got right.
> 2533274816788253;6:
> > 2533274943854776;5:
> > > 2533274816788253;4:
> > > Hey look I cherry picked some match times to try and prove something… H5 is plenty fast. Match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it. To many factors go into match.
> >
> >
> > Would you make some arguments to support thede statements. Why aren’t match times a good way to try and prove it? What are these “factors”. Talk to some old school pros and they’ll tell you CE is faster.
>
>
> Size of the map, each player skill set, amount of power weapons on the map… stuff like that. But mostly comes down to player skills or team skill. If one team is way better than the other they can just steam roll them and end the match quickly. But if the teams are more closely matched the game may last longer.
If he was taking random match times you’d have an argument here. However, he’s taken match times from competitive matches/tournaments, which are faster than normal matches and both teams are highly skilled.
> 2533274816788253;4:
> Hey look I cherry picked some match times to try and prove something… H5 is plenty fast. Match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it. To many factors go into match.
H1 is played competitively 2v2 while still being played to 50 kills and finishing in around the same time as an H5 4v4 match (H5 2v2 is generally even slower in even games, despite being played to 25), has SIGNIFICANTLY faster power weapon and power-up spawn cycles which provide constant movement incentives, smaller maps scaled to base speed (i.e. you can move optimally in all directions, not just forward with your weapon ready at all times), jumps that can be performed while facing any direction with your weapon ready at all times, faster perfect kill times (literally two times faster than H5) with a MUCH harder starting weapon, absolutely brutal rockets that punish you hard for not controlling them, backpack reload, and the list goes on. These are objective measures by which Halo CE plays faster than H5. Not that you would know.
And that’s before we get into how ridiculously slow certain gametypes (Slayer, in particular) play in H5 at a high level. I know you probably don’t watch HCS, since you think H5 FFA is the height of competition, but the number of Eden Slayer games that have come down to TIME is ridiculous. Plaza slayer is also pretty slow. Really, the only maps that play slayer pretty quickly are small, symmetrical, and feature extremely overbearing power weapons (like the fuel rod canon). H5 Slayer is only fast if it snowballs hard.
> 2533274943854776;1:
> Yeah, the spartan abilitys, map design and radar have made the game simply slow.
> Evidence:
> 4v4’s
>
> - Halo CE: 50k3 game 11, 7 minutes
> MLG FFA vs STK 50k3final - YouTube
>
> - Halo 5: Xgames gold medal match game 7, 8-minutes
> Gold Medal Match – Evil Geniuses vs CLG - YouTube
>
> 2v2’s
>
>
>
> - Halo CE: mlg seattle 2v2 finals, 15 minutes (first to 50)
> MLG Seattle 2004 2v2 finals - YouTube
>
> - Halo 5: astro 2v2 grand finals game 4, 12 minutes (first to 25)
> - YouTube
>
> 1v1’s
>
>
>
> - Halo CE: agp3, 24 minutes (reached 38 kills)
> Halo 1 Tournament, AGP 3, Darkman vs Ogre 1, 1v1 Wizard, Darkman POV - YouTube
>
> - Halo 5: 15 minutes (16 total kills)
> ROY VS LUNCHBOX HALO 5 1V1 - YouTube
>
> Don’t we want a fast game? Halo 5 is not faster than CE and if that was the reason to steal all this stuff from other games(clamber, GP, spartan charge, sprint, slide) it didn’t work. What do you think? Is the slow pace a good thing or a bad thing?
I think you are confusing speed of game play with match length.
What? No way. Halo 5 is the most fast paced Halo of them all. If your looking at the time for completing games, and see that it takes longer, that’s because of the new armor abilities.
> 2533274880633045;11:
> I think you are confusing speed of game play with match length.
Feel free to actually explain why you think that is a meaningful distinction instead of making this assertion like it means anything on its own. H1 plays faster than H5. I’ve provided a short list of quantifiable mechanical reason why above. So… Do you actually have an argument?
> 2533274890584596;13:
> > 2533274880633045;11:
> > I think you are confusing speed of game play with match length.
>
>
> Feel free to actually explain why you think that is a meaningful distinction instead of making this assertion like it means anything on its own. H1 plays faster than H5. I’ve provided a short list of quantifiable mechanical reason why above. So… Do you actually have an argument?
I can choose matches of whatever length I want. The length of a match is irrelevant to the speed of the gameplay, kiddo. The op cherry picked a few game time lengths and then used them as an attempt to say that the older games were quicker. With the information he provided there is nowhere near the evidence to support such a claim. It may or may not be true, but providing irrelevant data isn’t the way to support a claim. Why don’t you two confer and try again later. Provide some evidence to support your claim and until then I’ll stick to the null hypothesis. Oh and by the way, saying ‘you didn’t support your claim’ is not the same as saying ‘I disagree.’
Do you know what a P-value is? Have you done the statistics? Have you managed to collect data on a few thousand matches from every game?
> 2533274943854776;5:
> > 2533274816788253;4:
> > Hey look I cherry picked some match times to try and prove something… H5 is plenty fast. Match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it. To many factors go into match.
>
>
> Would you make some arguments to support thede statements. Why aren’t match times a good way to try and prove it? What are these “factors”. Talk to some old school pros and they’ll tell you CE is faster.
Match times vary based on individual player skill, team skill, how well the two teams’ skill match up, any strategies and tricks that are applied, any possible circumstantial hinderances such as lag and other such things, and a pinch of luck. Personally, my friends and I were playing assault about a week ago and we had a few matches that lasted 2 minutes and other matches that lasted far longer. The former, we absolutely wiped the floor with the enemy team. The latter, things seemed relatively evenly matched. Most things in life are heavily dependent on variable factors, Halo isn’t any different.
> 2533274880633045;14:
> > 2533274890584596;13:
> > > 2533274880633045;11:
> > > I think you are confusing speed of game play with match length.
> >
> >
> > Feel free to actually explain why you think that is a meaningful distinction instead of making this assertion like it means anything on its own. H1 plays faster than H5. I’ve provided a short list of quantifiable mechanical reason why above. So… Do you actually have an argument?
>
>
> I can set the match length to whatever I want—
I don’t even need to respond, because this is hilariously dumb on its own. lmao. You literally don’t even comprehend what these numbers are on a basic level. This is not time the limit in custom settings. It is the amount of time it takes competitive players to finish a match. Jesus Christ.
> 2533274890584596;16:
> > 2533274880633045;14:
> > > 2533274890584596;13:
> > > > 2533274880633045;11:
> > > > I think you are confusing speed of game play with match length.
> > >
> > >
> > > Feel free to actually explain why you think that is a meaningful distinction instead of making this assertion like it means anything on its own. H1 plays faster than H5. I’ve provided a short list of quantifiable mechanical reason why above. So… Do you actually have an argument?
> >
> >
> > I can set the match length to whatever I want—
>
>
> I don’t even need to respond, because this is hilariously dumb on its own. lmao. Waypoint. You literally don’t even comprehend what these numbers are on a basic level. This is not time the limit in custom settings. It is the amount of time it takes competitive players to finish a match. Jesus Christ.
Yeah, I got that. Match length is irrelevant some matches will be longer, some will be shorter. Any single matches length is irrelevant. Again Irrelevant data is irrelevant. You want me to think it matters get a few thousand of each games matches and tell me you know what a bloody P-value is. Then it might be evidence. Right now it is one cherry picked match and therefore irrelevant. Instead you try to deflect. Perhaps a better word choice would have been I can pick matches of whatever length I want. I don’t think you comprehend statistics, the basic rules of logic, or human interaction.
Again the op did not provide enough info to support his claim.
> 2533274925062530;15:
> > 2533274943854776;5:
> > > 2533274816788253;4:
> > > Hey look I cherry picked some match times to try and prove something… H5 is plenty fast. Match times aren’t a good way to try and prove it. To many factors go into match.
> >
> >
> > Would you make some arguments to support thede statements. Why aren’t match times a good way to try and prove it? What are these “factors”. Talk to some old school pros and they’ll tell you CE is faster.
>
>
> Match times vary based on individual player skill, team skill, how well the two teams’ skill match up, any strategies and tricks that are applied, any possible circumstantial hinderances such as lag and other such things, and a pinch of luck. Personally, my friends and I were playing assault about a week ago and we had a few matches that lasted 2 minutes and other matches that lasted far longer. The former, we absolutely wiped the floor with the enemy team. The latter, things seemed relatively evenly matched. Most things in life are heavily dependent on variable factors, Halo isn’t any different.
Again, the matches the OP posted are high end, competitive matches and tournaments. The individual player skill for both teams is on the higher end of the spectrum than your average player. These matches are also played in controlled environments, so lag doesn’t play much of a factor.
The point the OP is trying to make is that tournament matches in CE played faster and ended faster than tournament matches in Halo 5. If Halo 5 was truly the fastest Halo to date, this wouldn’t be the case.
> 2533274880633045;17:
> > 2533274890584596;16:
> > > 2533274880633045;14:
> > > > 2533274890584596;13:
> > > > > 2533274880633045;11:
> > > > > I think you are confusing speed of game play with match length.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Feel free to actually explain why you think that is a meaningful distinction instead of making this assertion like it means anything on its own. H1 plays faster than H5. I’ve provided a short list of quantifiable mechanical reason why above. So… Do you actually have an argument?
> > >
> > >
> > > I can set the match length to whatever I want—
> >
> >
> > I don’t even need to respond, because this is hilariously dumb on its own. lmao. Waypoint. You literally don’t even comprehend what these numbers are on a basic level. This is not time the limit in custom settings. It is the amount of time it takes competitive players to finish a match. Jesus Christ.
>
>
> Yeah, I got that. Match length is irrelevant some matches will be longer, some will be shorter. Again Irrelevant data is irrelevant. You want me to think it matters get a few thousand of each games matches and tell me you know what a bloody P-value is. Then it might be evidence. Right now it is one cherry picked match and therefore irrelevant. Instead you try to deflect. Perhaps a better word choice would have been I can pick matches of whatever length I want. I don’t think you comprehend statistics, the basic rules of logic, or human interaction.
Do you honestly expect someone to take the time to do this? This isn’t a scholarly paper and it’s not statistics. This literally has nothing to do with the “basic rules of logic,” which suggests to me that you pulled that out of a certain -Yoink!-. I love it when people with nothing meaningful to say start throwing their non-existent intellectual weight around with a nice list of generally important-sounding topics. And at no point has anyone really suggested that this is a quantitatively representative sample for both games. In fact, he outlined his qualitative reasoning above. Perhaps you should address that instead of dismissing and posturing.
Further, I provided a list of quantifiable mechanical facts that necessitate faster gameplay and quicker relative match-times in CE in my own post. You address none of this in favor of making two pointless posts in a row.
> 2533275031939856;2:
> Have you played H5? It’s easily the most fast paced game out of every halo.
Not true. You just feel fast. But actually because of map design all the og halos are faster. Halo 3 feels extremely slow walking but you are actually moving fast and getting into combat a lot faster than in halo 5. It has to do with the pov I. Halo that makes you feel like a turtle.