So with Halo 5 competitive was the multiplayer was built around the idea of esports in mind but if we look back at halo three and prior before they were built with the casual scene in mind you can always make a competitive game from a casual but you can’t make a casual game from a competitive game
I don’t know if bungie’s Halo’s were necessarily built with casuals in mind, But I understand what your trying to say.
Halo 5 put too much emphasis on making Halo an Esport when they should just be focused on making a good Halo multiplayer. Bungie focused on making their multiplayer fun and because it was fun and competitive it was picked up by Esports players and blew up in the esports scene.
Infinite, unfortunately appears to be doubling down on the Halo 5 esports angle;
“Esports is a fundamental element of how “Halo Infinite’s” multiplayer game is being designed and will function.”
-Elizabeth Van Wyck, head of business, operations and esports for the Halo franchise at Microsoft.
Halo should be made with community 1st, esports 2nd. H3 did it perfect, & some of the best years of MLG came from it.
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> I don’t know if bungie’s Halo’s were necessarily built with casuals in mind, But I understand what your trying to say.
> Halo 5 put too much emphasis on making Halo an Esport when they should just be focused on making a good Halo multiplayer. Bungie focused on making their multiplayer fun and because it was fun and competitive it was picked up by Esports players and blew up in the esports scene.
> Infinite, unfortunately appears to be doubling down on the Halo 5 esports angle;
>
> “Esports is a fundamental element of how “Halo Infinite’s” multiplayer game is being designed and will function.”
> -Elizabeth Van Wyck, head of business, operations and esports for the Halo franchise at Microsoft.
I saw this news article and got scared for it
I feel like the terms “competitive” and “casual” are being used far too vaguely to be at all helpful. I don’t believe my idea of “competitive” aligns with OP’s or 343i’s idea of “competitive”, and same goes for “casual”. For example, it’s obvious that 343i has a put a lot of emphasis on esports, but the statement “Halo 5 is competitive” doesn’t sit well with me because I don’t believe its design expemplifies a good competitive game. I also disagree with the notion that “you can always make a competitive game from a casual”. Sure, in principle, you can have competition in any game whether it be chess or coin flip, but the appearance of competition doesn’t mean it’s interesting.
Likewise, I disagree with the notion that “you can’t make a casual game from a competitive game”. Strictly speaking, it’s in logical contradiction with the previous statement (that a casual game can always be competitive), since a game is either casual, competitive, or both, but the assertion “you can always make a competitive game from a casual” implies that every casual game is competitive, which in turn itself implies that some competitive games are casual conflicting with “you can’t make a casual game from a competitive game”. There is no merit to these ideas. Really, I have no idea what OP means by “competitive” or “casual” to be able to disagree using their definitions, but broadly speaking “competitive” and “casual” are just mindsets, and therefore whether a game is competitive or casual depends only on the players, not the game. Of course, it’s whole another matter whether the game is something I (not literally me, but an arbitrary player) would want to play casually or competitively. But again, in those terms it’s all too vague what “competitive” and “casual” mean.
I also find the notion of “casual scene” absurd. Whereas one can argue that competitive players at least all have some common focus (namely, trying to win), “casual” describes anyone who is not competitive, which makes for a very diverse group with no common interest. Heck, many competitive players also like to play casually sometimes, but it’s not like they just flip a switch to change their gameplay preferences: they are casual, but they still value the same things they value as a competitive player. So, if you’re trying to set up “casual scene” as some focused group with a single mindset, it doesn’t work because “casual” is a catch-all term to describe anyone under a certain (undetermined) level of intensity (in this case towards competitive play).
Frankly, I think “a good game will appeal to everyone”, as unhelpful as it is, is more helpful than trying to manufacture some divide between competitive and casual by saying things like “you can’t make a casual game from a competitive game”. Halo 5 fails as a casual game, not because it’s too competitive, but because it’s just not a good game. Now, there are many reasons I don’t think it’s a good game, but none of them comes down to “because it’s designed to be competitive”.
With that said, I do think that 343i is too focused on making an esports phenomenon on the grounds that esports sells, which I pessimistically believe will lead them astray. Again, not for any reasons related to competitive play, but simply because I believe this sort of trend-driven game design breeds mediocre games.
Your logic is flawed because you said H5 was built for competitive play and you can’t play a competitive game casually, but yet, people do play H5 casually. You can play a competitive game casually so I’m not sure why you would even think that.
I think H5 showed that you can throw all the money you want into your eSports scene, but it’s not going to make it grow if it’s not done properly and/or the game isn’t fun to watch or play. Now I did read that linked article and I wanted to point this out which wasn’t posted.
> That includes making assurances to fans, players and potential business partners that Halo’s online competitive modes won’t see major changes that could throw gameplay and competition completely out of whack. To do that, Microsoft and developer 343 Industries is focusing on expanding its communication with the community and with pro teams not just on existing games, but on how future games will function, she said.
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> “Those are all things that go into the development process that didn’t before,” she said.
To me, that is what she really meant when she was talking about making the multiplayer with eSports in mind. Notice how she said competitive modes which implies there will be casual modes as well.
I think Halo 5 was built with an apparent skill gap in mind. The spartan abilities specifically create a divide between people who are okay at H5 and people who are really good. You can be a great shot and good grenade thrower, but if you don’t master the abilities then you probably won’t do well.
I think that is both good and bad. Its savior and its bane.
The number of visible ranked playlist is the only thing I could ever charitably describe as a “problem” that is related to esports.
Otherwise the idea that Halo 5 has some super competitive design philosophy underlying its multiplayer design is laughable. Even putting aside controversial mechanics like spartan abilities, this is not a game designed around a competitive Halo players wants and desires. Generous aim assist and magnetism, hitmarkers, redundant/uninteresting sandbox items, dynamic timers(for certain weapons), giant icons that give away when power weapons are dropped, and last but not least radar being kept in tournament playlists. Its not all bad, the starting precision weapon is decent and the return of static timers for certain power weapons is nice, and spectator is a nice feature(in theory at least).
Combine that with the heavy focus on things like Warzone(which is as far as you can get from “competitive” Halo) and Breakout(a joke) and what you have is not a game that focused around the wants of “competitive Halo players” but one with a focus on microtransactions via warzone and “Esports™” as envisioned by committee based on what other popular games are doing.
“Esports” under 343 has been little more than a part of the marketing based on their unwillingness to acquiesce to even the most basic requests of long time competitive Halo players, namely, the removal of radar from tournaments and tournament gametypes(among other things). Past Halo games were not built with the competitive community in mind, but they still ended up with grassroots support from more competitive players with tournaments springing up around what said community valued in terms of settings. Meanwhile competitive Halo under 343 in Halo 5 has amounted to an “our way or the highway” for anyone wanting to seriously compete and changes have been low to come. Its not based around the ideals competitive players have had over the years, its based on what is perceived to be most marketable to an increasing audience of “Esports” as a whole.
Long story short, Halo 5 and likely Infinite are not designed around and “competitive” ideal. “Casuals” are not going to have to worry about getting passed over for “competitive” players or vice versa. 343 is equally capable of screwing over both.
All I know is that Halo 4 without ordnance and abilities is fantastic. Halo 5 did away with some of those things with Halo 5, but then they made the game too complicated with all the abilities. 343 could make a more simplistic halo and i think it would do very very well. The problem is that I don’t think they want to go that route.