My weird solution for Spawn Trapping

First of all let me clear that I dont dislike/like spawn trapping.

The person who is spawn trapping has earned it by slaying and having map-spawn knowledge.
But the person spawning has been dealt a bad hand considering that he/she doesnt know where he will spawn and the current location of the enemies.

My solution will tweak the game in the favour of spawning player and if the spawn-trapper is good enough he will be able to kill the enemy again.

Solution
When a person spawn dont allow him to incur any damage on the enemy and make him damage proof for 1-2 seconds after the spawn. 1-2 seconds in Halo terms is long enough for the spawnee to get an idea about what he should be doing. And if the Spawn-trapper has kept his eye on the spawnee then he should be able to kill the spawnee again.

Flamesuit ON.

If not a permanent thing - this could be added as a toggleable option.

No. This is the worst idea I’ve read tonight.

Spawn trapping is integral to competitive gameplay. It means that a team has a reason to work their -Yoink- off to gain, and keep map control. If spawn trapping were set up the way you wanted it to be, then it would mean that having knowledge of spawns and map control would be pointless. Teams could break setups far to easily.

I am willing to bet that you endorse the idea of Armour Lock… Spawn trapping is a necessary component to competitive gameplay.

Bungie tried to make a game to kill competitiveness, and look what happened… Reach is almost dead, not even a year into it’s existence, and 343i is removing components (bloom, no bleed through armour lock, etc) and making the game more competitive, because we all know that competitiveness is a natural motivation. People always strive to win, and hate being cheated.

Crap like the suggestion in the OP is exactly the kind of thing that kills competitive merit of a game, and it would be hated from the start.

> No. This is the worst idea I’ve read tonight.Spawn trapping is integral to competitive gameplay. It means that a team has a reason to work their Yoink! off to gain, and keep map control. If spawn trapping were set up the way you wanted it to be, then it would mean that having knowledge of spawns and map control would be pointless. Teams could break setups far to easily.

I agree with this guy to this point. Spawn trapping is just part of the halo game. Its a huge strategy, and the team that can do it best, is the team that is going to win.

> I am willing to bet that you endorse the idea of Armour Lock… Spawn trapping is a necessary component to competitive gameplay. Bungie tried to make a game to kill competitiveness, and look what happened… Reach is almost dead, not even a year into it’s existence, and 343i is removing components (bloom, no bleed through armour lock, etc) and making the game more competitive, because we all know that competitiveness is a natural motivation. People always strive to win, and hate being cheated. Crap like the suggestion in the OP is exactly the kind of thing that kills competitive merit of a game, and it would be hated from the start.

1st, Bloom=competitive gameplay. No bloom= spamming as fast as you can. Being able to adapt to bloom is part of the game. If your smart about shooting, you will win 90% of your 1 on 1 battles over someone who isnt pacing. Without bloom you will lose many more battles.

2nd, Where did you ever hear that bungie was trying to make a game to kill competitiveness? That is a ridiculous statement.

> > No. This is the worst idea I’ve read tonight.Spawn trapping is integral to competitive gameplay. It means that a team has a reason to work their Yoink! off to gain, and keep map control. If spawn trapping were set up the way you wanted it to be, then it would mean that having knowledge of spawns and map control would be pointless. Teams could break setups far to easily.
>
> I agree with this guy to this point. Spawn trapping is just part of the halo game. Its a huge strategy, and the team that can do it best, is the team that is going to win.
>
>
>
> > I am willing to bet that you endorse the idea of Armour Lock… Spawn trapping is a necessary component to competitive gameplay. Bungie tried to make a game to kill competitiveness, and look what happened… Reach is almost dead, not even a year into it’s existence, and 343i is removing components (bloom, no bleed through armour lock, etc) and making the game more competitive, because we all know that competitiveness is a natural motivation. People always strive to win, and hate being cheated. Crap like the suggestion in the OP is exactly the kind of thing that kills competitive merit of a game, and it would be hated from the start.
>
> 1st, Bloom=competitive gameplay. No bloom= spamming as fast as you can. Being able to adapt to bloom is part of the game. If your smart about shooting, you will win 90% of your 1 on 1 battles over someone who isnt pacing. Without bloom you will lose many more battles.
>
> 2nd, Where did you ever hear that bungie was trying to make a game to kill competitiveness? That is a ridiculous statement.

If bloom worked as intended, yes, pacers would win. Bungie tried everything possible to make Reach as slow and boring a shooter possible, this game was obviously designed to completely dodge competitive players.

Spawn killing is pathetic and lame. If you really have skill, then giving the other guy a second or two to get his bearings won’t matter, you’d still be able to kill him. This has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with wanting an unfair advantage, it’s actually the complete opposite of skill because you want the guy to literally die before he can move.

It’s boring and lame when you’re doing it to the other team, and it’s boring and lame when it’s done to you. Yay, I just made the other team spawn into the sights of my team mates sniper rifle and the guy died before he could even move. Wow, we’re badasses!

Why not just petition for wallhacks and aimbots? It’s cheating, pure and simple. The whole original point of the spawning zone system in Halo was to prevent lameass spawnkilling in the first place.

Banking a plasma grenade off a wall onto the face of a guy charging up a ramp is skill. Realizing the opposing team is about to pick up the RL, jumping from the top of Dammy and no scoping them on the way down so your team mates get it instead is skill, and also hilarious when your corpse splat lands amongst the carnage.

Spawn killing is not skill. It’s lame, and so are you. Unless it’s Full Map All Rockets on Longest, when everbody explodes before they can move no matter what you do.

> 1st, Bloom=competitive gameplay. No bloom= spamming as fast as you can. Being able to adapt to bloom is part of the game. If your smart about shooting, you will win 90% of your 1 on 1 battles over someone who isnt pacing. Without bloom you will lose many more battles.
>
> 2nd, Where did you ever hear that bungie was trying to make a game to kill competitiveness? That is a ridiculous statement.

Pacing causes slow gameplay.
Slow gameplay causes slow games.
Slow games are not competitive.
Armour Abilities only aid this slow gameplay.

Armour Lock: Obvious.
Sprint: Slow weapon like the DMR, sprinters can get away far to easily because people cannot shoot them fast enough.
Jetpack: Got map control? No you don’t, I’ll just jetpack up here in an unnatural way and ruin the idea of having walls.
Evade: See: Sprint.
Camo: You have to crouch walk to actually be invisible, otherwise it’s useless.
Hologram: Most pointless thing ever created.

Every single Armour Abilitiy is there just to further imbalance Halo.

Halo CE was a perfect balance. Every weapon had its use, and every weapon was perfect for what it was used for. Halo 2 was a super fast paced game with almost perfect gameplay. The button glitches added another element of skill the created a larger skill gap. Halo 3 was dumbed down a bit with the loss of hitscan and the introduction of BR Spread. We also saw equipment added into the mix, which was at first extremely hard to get used to, but was easy to adapt to. It then became regarded as an acceptable element of gameplay, although it would have been nice if it wasn’t there at all. Halo Reach is just a cesspool of random gameplay and terrible game mechanics. Everything about Reach is easy to hate. It does not feel like Halo. No real ranking system, game mechanics are foreign and stupid.

Basically what happened is Bungie slowly changed Halo so much, that with Reach, it was no longer Halo, but Reach. That’s it. Just… Reach. It is not deserving of a Halo title until it is fixed.

> I am willing to bet that you endorse the idea of Armour Lock… Spawn trapping is a necessary component to competitive gameplay.

I hate Armor lock - you can go to my stats on bungie and have a look at my stats/commendations and find out how many times I have used AL.

> > I am willing to bet that you endorse the idea of Armour Lock… Spawn trapping is a necessary component to competitive gameplay.
>
> I hate Armor lock - you can go to my stats on bungie and have a look at my stats/commendations and find out how many times I have used AL.

Fair enough, but your idea about Spawn Killing is stupid and pointless.

If you got spawn killed, it means you died.
If you got spawn killed, it means your team lost map control.

Instead of trying to get rid of spawn killing, maybe try to get a good team together and don’t forfeit map so easily. The only reason they can sit there waiting for you to spawn is because they have time to. Why’s that? Because your team mates blow, and have no idea what they’re doing.

I don’t want to come across as harsh, but seriously, it only happens when you are facing a team that is dominantly better than you. Why should you get a chance against a team that is better than you? The idea of “one team wins and one team loses” is that the better team wins.

I play Level 50 Slayer every day in teams of 3, and rarely do I get spawn killed. Why? Because teams know that they can’t stand still waiting for someone to spawn against a good team. You want to avoid being spawn killed? Get better and learn that map control is everything.

Spawn killing is a skill, no other way about it.

Spawn trapping is like the old New Jersey Devils half ice trap that was employed on their Stanley Cup Team in 2000. It takes skill and you have to work at it, but at the end of the day there is a lot of debate about whether or not it actually improves the game, because you tilt the odds heavily in favor of the team that is already ahead.

I think anyone that is honest with themselves knows that the whole point of any spawn system is to SAFELY enter a player back into the game. However, CPU/programming limitations led to spawn traps and then a bunch of kids decided it was somehow good for the game. It’s not interesting to watch and it’s not interesting to play on either side…and let’s not pretend it takes that much skill. On some maps, yes…but any person could do it on maps like Narrows.

EDIT: The half ice trap was eliminated eventually by rule changes in hockey.

> Spawn killing is pathetic and lame. If you really have skill, then giving the other guy a second or two to get his bearings won’t matter, you’d still be able to kill him. This has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with wanting an unfair advantage, it’s actually the complete opposite of skill because you want the guy to literally die before he can move.
>
> It’s boring and lame when you’re doing it to the other team, and it’s boring and lame when it’s done to you. Yay, I just made the other team spawn into the sights of my team mates sniper rifle and the guy died before he could even move. Wow, we’re Yoink!!
>
> Why not just petition for wallhacks and aimbots? It’s cheating, pure and simple. The whole original point of the spawning zone system in Halo was to prevent lameass spawnkilling in the first place.
>
> Banking a plasma grenade off a wall onto the face of a guy charging up a ramp is skill. Realizing the opposing team is about to pick up the RL, jumping from the top of Dammy and no scoping them on the way down so your team mates get it instead is skill, and also hilarious when your corpse splat lands amongst the carnage.
>
> Spawn killing is not skill. It’s lame, and so are you. Unless it’s Full Map All Rockets on Longest, when everbody explodes before they can move no matter what you do.

Read.

The only thing that needs to happen to prevent spawnkilling is better spawns.

> > Spawn killing is pathetic and lame. If you really have skill, then giving the other guy a second or two to get his bearings won’t matter, you’d still be able to kill him. This has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with wanting an unfair advantage, it’s actually the complete opposite of skill because you want the guy to literally die before he can move.
> >
> > It’s boring and lame when you’re doing it to the other team, and it’s boring and lame when it’s done to you. Yay, I just made the other team spawn into the sights of my team mates sniper rifle and the guy died before he could even move. Wow, we’re Yoink!!
> >
> > Why not just petition for wallhacks and aimbots? It’s cheating, pure and simple. The whole original point of the spawning zone system in Halo was to prevent lameass spawnkilling in the first place.
> >
> > Banking a plasma grenade off a wall onto the face of a guy charging up a ramp is skill. Realizing the opposing team is about to pick up the RL, jumping from the top of Dammy and no scoping them on the way down so your team mates get it instead is skill, and also hilarious when your corpse splat lands amongst the carnage.
> >
> > Spawn killing is not skill. It’s lame, and so are you. Unless it’s Full Map All Rockets on Longest, when everbody explodes before they can move no matter what you do.
>
> Read.
>
> The only thing that needs to happen to prevent spawnkilling is better spawns.

That guy is a pretentious hypocrite (and seems to support bullying and just being an overall jerk in the way he thinks video games should be played) who, by his own definition, is himself a scrub, and whatever tournaments ban that Street Fighter character. They are making up their own “home” rule, and thus by his own definition of the term he is a scrub. He shoots his own argument in the foot by bringing that example up. In fact, he further goes on to undermine his own argument(s) in the other parts to his first article as well!

Making up rules of conduct by common consent does not make one person or any group of people a scrub or noob or anything of the sort. What does make one something like that is trying to force your own rules on everyone and not being willing to play the game any other way.

The goal of a game is to win, yes, but that is not the whole purpose of a game, the very reason for game’s existence is to provide a means of entertainment and fun. (Yes I know that fun is a subjective term, just humor me) It is the duty of all the players keep the game fun for everyone. And taking the goal of the game (winning) to its furthest extremes (which is what the writer of that article advocates) undermines a games very purpose in a general setting like the matchmaking of Halo. And that’s why people make rules for games, to preserve the fun of other players and the enjoyment of everyone. Which brings me to another point, just because something is in the game does not meant that it is something that should be used or something that the creators of the game intended to implement. What should or should not be used within a game is determined by the majority of the people who play the game.

And this brings me to Spawn Camping, the majority of players in Halo’s general matchmaking do not approve of Spawn Camping, and thus it is not something that is considered a legitimate tactic there or something that should be used. I will not say whether the issue itself is something good or bad, but I will say that it is a rather immature tactic and not something an honorable player or good sport will use.

People should have a choice of where to spawn, and be able to look round each area before spawning there.

> No. This is the worst idea I’ve read tonight.
>
> Spawn trapping is integral to competitive gameplay. It means that a team has a reason to work their Yoink! off to gain, and keep map control. If spawn trapping were set up the way you wanted it to be, then it would mean that having knowledge of spawns and map control would be pointless. Teams could break setups far to easily.
>
> I am willing to bet that you endorse the idea of Armour Lock… Spawn trapping is a necessary component to competitive gameplay.
>
> Bungie tried to make a game to kill competitiveness, and look what happened… Reach is almost dead, not even a year into it’s existence, and 343i is removing components (bloom, no bleed through armour lock, etc) and making the game more competitive, because we all know that competitiveness is a natural motivation. People always strive to win, and hate being cheated.
>
> Crap like the suggestion in the OP is exactly the kind of thing that kills competitive merit of a game, and it would be hated from the start.

Wait I’m confused. Are you saying maps designed for spawn killing are not only a good thing but pro as well? If you are wtf? That would mean a map that has blue team spawn in a pit with no way out and red team spawning way above them with snipers is pro.

> > > Spawn killing is pathetic and lame. If you really have skill, then giving the other guy a second or two to get his bearings won’t matter, you’d still be able to kill him. This has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with wanting an unfair advantage, it’s actually the complete opposite of skill because you want the guy to literally die before he can move.
> > >
> > > It’s boring and lame when you’re doing it to the other team, and it’s boring and lame when it’s done to you. Yay, I just made the other team spawn into the sights of my team mates sniper rifle and the guy died before he could even move. Wow, we’re Yoink!!
> > >
> > > Why not just petition for wallhacks and aimbots? It’s cheating, pure and simple. The whole original point of the spawning zone system in Halo was to prevent lameass spawnkilling in the first place.
> > >
> > > Banking a plasma grenade off a wall onto the face of a guy charging up a ramp is skill. Realizing the opposing team is about to pick up the RL, jumping from the top of Dammy and no scoping them on the way down so your team mates get it instead is skill, and also hilarious when your corpse splat lands amongst the carnage.
> > >
> > > Spawn killing is not skill. It’s lame, and so are you. Unless it’s Full Map All Rockets on Longest, when everbody explodes before they can move no matter what you do.
> >
> > Read.
> >
> > The only thing that needs to happen to prevent spawnkilling is better spawns.
>
> That guy is a pretentious hypocrite (and seems to support bullying and just being an overall jerk in the way he thinks video games should be played) who, by his own definition, is himself a scrub, and whatever tournaments ban that Street Fighter character. They are making up their own “home” rule, and thus by his own definition of the term he is a scrub. He shoots his own argument in the foot by bringing that example up. In fact, he further goes on to undermine his own argument(s) in the other parts to his first article as well!
>
> Making up rules of conduct by common consent does not make one person or any group of people a scrub or noob or anything of the sort. What does make one something like that is trying to force your own rules on everyone and not being willing to play the game any other way.
>
> The goal of a game is to win, yes, but that is not the whole purpose of a game, the very reason for game’s existence is to provide a means of entertainment and fun. (Yes I know that fun is a subjective term, just humor me) It is the duty of all the players keep the game fun for everyone. And taking the goal of the game (winning) to its furthest extremes (which is what the writer of that article advocates) undermines a games very purpose in a general setting like the matchmaking of Halo. And that’s why people make rules for games, to preserve the fun of other players and the enjoyment of everyone. Which brings me to another point, just because something is in the game does not meant that it is something that should be used or something that the creators of the game intended to implement. What should or should not be used within a game is determined by the majority of the people who play the game.
>
> And this brings me to Spawn Camping, the majority of players in Halo’s general matchmaking do not approve of Spawn Camping, and thus it is not something that is considered a legitimate tactic there or something that should be used. I will not say whether the issue itself is something good or bad, but I will say that it is a rather immature tactic and not something an honorable player or good sport will use.

<a href=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=63114655&postRepeater1-p=1>Spawnkilling =/= being a bad sport

So you are okay when a team works together to spawn kill but apparently very offended when a team works together to out Armor Lock you? So is Armor Lock the hidden Street Fighter character?

FYI: Armor Lock=Akuma.

> People should have a choice of where to spawn, and be able to look round each area before spawning there.

I like this idea - Maybe on your death screen you could choose your spawn point (Like you could choose your Loadout) but the players options would be limited to his teams spawn points only.
(Bro-Slayer was a decent attempt to limit spawn trapping)

> > > > Spawn killing is pathetic and lame. If you really have skill, then giving the other guy a second or two to get his bearings won’t matter, you’d still be able to kill him. This has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with wanting an unfair advantage, it’s actually the complete opposite of skill because you want the guy to literally die before he can move.
> > > >
> > > > It’s boring and lame when you’re doing it to the other team, and it’s boring and lame when it’s done to you. Yay, I just made the other team spawn into the sights of my team mates sniper rifle and the guy died before he could even move. Wow, we’re Yoink!!
> > > >
> > > > Why not just petition for wallhacks and aimbots? It’s cheating, pure and simple. The whole original point of the spawning zone system in Halo was to prevent lameass spawnkilling in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > Banking a plasma grenade off a wall onto the face of a guy charging up a ramp is skill. Realizing the opposing team is about to pick up the RL, jumping from the top of Dammy and no scoping them on the way down so your team mates get it instead is skill, and also hilarious when your corpse splat lands amongst the carnage.
> > > >
> > > > Spawn killing is not skill. It’s lame, and so are you. Unless it’s Full Map All Rockets on Longest, when everbody explodes before they can move no matter what you do.
> > >
> > > Read.
> > >
> > > The only thing that needs to happen to prevent spawnkilling is better spawns.
> >
> > That guy is a pretentious hypocrite (and seems to support bullying and just being an overall jerk in the way he thinks video games should be played) who, by his own definition, is himself a scrub, and whatever tournaments ban that Street Fighter character. They are making up their own “home” rule, and thus by his own definition of the term he is a scrub. He shoots his own argument in the foot by bringing that example up. In fact, he further goes on to undermine his own argument(s) in the other parts to his first article as well!
> >
> > Making up rules of conduct by common consent does not make one person or any group of people a scrub or noob or anything of the sort. What does make one something like that is trying to force your own rules on everyone and not being willing to play the game any other way.
> >
> > The goal of a game is to win, yes, but that is not the whole purpose of a game, the very reason for game’s existence is to provide a means of entertainment and fun. (Yes I know that fun is a subjective term, just humor me) It is the duty of all the players keep the game fun for everyone. And taking the goal of the game (winning) to its furthest extremes (which is what the writer of that article advocates) undermines a games very purpose in a general setting like the matchmaking of Halo. And that’s why people make rules for games, to preserve the fun of other players and the enjoyment of everyone. Which brings me to another point, just because something is in the game does not meant that it is something that should be used or something that the creators of the game intended to implement. What should or should not be used within a game is determined by the majority of the people who play the game.
> >
> > And this brings me to Spawn Camping, the majority of players in Halo’s general matchmaking do not approve of Spawn Camping, and thus it is not something that is considered a legitimate tactic there or something that should be used. I will not say whether the issue itself is something good or bad, but I will say that it is a rather immature tactic and not something an honorable player or good sport will use.
>
> <a href=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=63114655&postRepeater1-p=1>Spawnkilling =/= being a bad sport

That’s exactly what spawn trapping is. It’s like kicking your opponent while he’s down in wrestling match, going for a hit to a guys groin area in something similar to a UFC fight, or like deliberately trying to injure players on the opposing team in professional sports. It’s a game it’s not life and death where you’re fighting for survival and virtually anything goes! Nor is it something like a competition where some monetary prize is on the line. People play the game to enjoy a good challenge or to just have fun mucking around in the game, nobody plays to stare at their re-spawn screen for fifteen+ minutes.

> > <a href=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=63114655&postRepeater1-p=1>Spawnkilling =/= being a bad sport
>
> That’s exactly what spawn trapping is. It’s like kicking your opponent while he’s down in wrestling match, going for a hit to a guys groin area in something similar to a UFC fight, or like deliberately trying to injure players on the opposing team in professional sports. It’s a game it’s not life and death where you’re fighting for survival and virtually anything goes! Nor is it something like a competition where some monetary prize is on the line. People play the game to enjoy a good challenge or to just have fun mucking around in the game, nobody plays to stare at their re-spawn screen for fifteen+ minutes.

Did you even read the post I linked?

Either way, a game is meant to be played to win. If your team lost control of the map and forfeited the power weapons, then the other team was better than you. If you’re getting spawntrapped then you should blame a trueskill system that doesn’t work.

spawn trapping should be in halo. it’s hard to pull off and yields a huge advantage to those who can.

the only problem I have with the spawn in reach are the dynamic spawns on symmetrical maps like asylum. if the red team pushes too hard into the blue team’s base then the blues will spawn near the red base. this even happens in objective games. watch this clip from a CTF slayer game I played where three players spawn on our side after we lock down their base with two sniper rifles and two offensive players.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=20897015&player=x%20F%20equals%20MA%20x

dynamic spawns should not be used in symmetrical maps.

I think the 1 second invulnerability is a great idea for casual halo. Not MLG.