My two biggest gripes with Ranked MP - And how I think they could and should be fixed

For starters, I’ve been really enjoying Infinite since it came out and don’t actually have many complaints, but man do I really need to just rant a bit, ok a lot, about my two biggest complaints which are: Matchmaking and Rank Progression

Matchmaking - The Problem
Matchmaking’s been a huge painpoint for me especially when playing Ranked since the reset. Before the reset I was at Diamond 4, grinding away to hit Onyx while playing through a sea of 2000+ Onyx player lobbies, ever since the reset I’ve been down to Platinum 4, and still getting placed into a sea of 1900+ Onyx player lobbies. Thanks hidden MMR that totally doesn’t exist, wink.

At least before the reset I was grinding through the later stages of Diamond so it felt like I was actually earning my way up, now I’m grinding my way through Platinum to get Diamond, getting paired up against people who’s ranks are still high Onyx and I get +1 or -10 CSR per match.

Matchmaking - The Solution
Get rid of the hidden MMR / skill based matchmaking system, have matchmaking for Ranked playlists be based on the players CSR and it pairs them with players of similar CSR, and expands the difference in CSR for the search based on who’s available, example:

1400 CSR players get matched with players between 1350 and 1450 CSR, if not enough players can be found then the search expands to 1300 and 1500 CSR range, so on and so forth.

Let Social playlists just be a jumbled mess, using sbmm even in Social is causing it to just be a sweatfest no matter where we play, the casual fun of Halo is effectively just gone entirely from this game and is discouraging for a lot of people.

Rank Progression - The Problem
Shorter than the last rant, it’s clear that Rank progression is strictly based on whether you win or lose and what your K/D is. This massively sucks considering that 3 of the 4 game modes in Ranked aren’t even kill-based, playing an objective game? If you want to go up you’d better make sure you end up with a good K/D, but that also means someone effectively has to sacrifice their progression to play the objective and not get kills, which leads to a complete loss of incentive for working as a team, because obviously everyone wants their ranks to go up.

Rank Progression - The Solution
Have your Ranke Progression at the end of a match be based on 2 things, whether you win or lose, and what your score is at the end of a match.

Won the game? you get +1 CSR for the win and +1-13 more CSR based on what your overall Score was in the match, this encourages people to play the objective in ranked just as much as getting kills, encourages gameplay, and Score is already implemented as a metric in the game, the fact that it’s not leveraged in this way already is insane.

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A “sea” of 2000+ Onyx players?

When I was hovering around low Diamond I rarely came across anyone who was Onyx 1600+.

You must be stuck in a server region with a very talented player pool.

Or exaggerating.

Or in a squad with a high Onyx buddy.

Everyone got pushed down a rank or so with the new reset.

But again D4 vs a “sea” of Onyx 1900+?

I could only see this happen if you were playing with high ranked buddies.

Why the wink? Everyone knows the MMR exists. It’s never been denied.

In fact there are TrueSkill2 papers etc that you can read.

Platinum is probably your rank now.

Once you have reached your rank your CSR will naturally fluctuate up and down.

But because 343 made the decision to award token CSR or a win, even if your MMR hasn’t changed, the oscillations are biased to drift upwards. So they have to compensate with a CSR crunch (the -10) to bring your MMR and CSR back together.

It happens to pretty much everyone.

Danger Will Robinson, Danger.

Ideally you would just tighten up on the MMR ranges. But you also have to factor in population numbers, match times, connection quality, and squads (of varying skill levels).

What would be even more discouraging, especially for new players, is the stompfest that would create.

No thanks.

We can argue the type and tightness of SBMM… but abandoning it for random is folly.

Definitely W/L. That’s how ranking systems work.

K/D not so much. The prime metric is likely to be K/min. And we don’t know exactly how it is weighted / applied across the different game types.

What you are describing here is an XP type system.

And yes, it’s insane that we don’t have one. Weighted to wins and medals/scores is an excellent idea.

But it would really -yoink- as a rank / match-making system.

I just want lobbies to be filled with people my rank. I’m OK for longer waiting times, or even “try later” situations.

It is better since the update, but I’m still ending up in games with a really high skill player right next to this guy running to touch the oddball while there are 2 enemies one shot in front of him, getting 1s of time, dying, and repeating.

By trying the be smart with an advanced algorithm, the ranking experience is worse than a basic one.

You play with players your rank only (you don’t balance an Onyx with a silver to equal a platinum, this has to stop), you win you go up, you loose you go down. K/D and objectives points affect a bit so in the most extreme cases you don’t go up with a win (terrible performance) or don’t go down with a loose (very good performance). Never go up with a loose even if you perform well, because it forces people to play slayer whatever the game mode.
It’s only OK to match people from another rank when you are at the level 1 or 6 of any rank.

Also side note, ranked games crash much more often since the update on pc while I didn’t change any settings. And there is no way to join back. 3v4 happen way to often in rank, and I bet it’s mostly due to crashes.

This situation only happens when the Onyx and the Silver are running as a squad.

I know, it’s stupid. Such things should only happen in Social or BTB. But they allow it in rank.

And sometime’s it’s even worse… the lower ranked player is either a smurf or just there to help the Onyx player rank up.

In my placement games a few days ago I hit the same team five times. Two Onyx players… one high Gold (smurf)… and a token Silver player (who was bad, but was doing their job in dragging my team down to Plats/Diamonds). They dominated.

And tonight I came across a Bronze 2 who went +10 or something, running around with high Plats / Low diamonds. I don’t know who they were squadded with - but they were clearly a smurf.

They really need to put a range limit on squads (in ranked).

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I don’t get why anyone would wants this. I want to play people around my skill level, not people far below me or way above me… How is that fun for anyone?

May as well just stick to Vs Bots so I can destroy them over and over…

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Problem is: you can’t play with friends outside your skill range.
It would be ok for them to get destroyed occasionally but all my friends stopped playing with me because it’s no fun for them playing against high diamonds and onyx playing while they are high golds/low plats.

People want to play with their friends. Friends often have a big difference in skill. I have seen many posts on these forums telling them to go play social because if they try and play together in ranked they accuse them of boosting/smurfs. But the SBMM in social playlists is so messed up, that it isn’t worth playing if your friends aren’t all the same skill.

I don’t know that the answer is to get rid of the SBMM but it definitely needs to be reworked. Of course it isn’t just messed up for social playlists; it’s also messed up for ranked. Personally I don’t think having a hidden MMR that is affected by every playlist that you play is helpful.

Basically, social playlists have become less and less social with every Halo since they introduced the Trueskill ranking system and whatever matchmaking system they have paired with it. It has basically gotten to the point in Halo Infinite that there aren’t any actual social playlists. It’s just ranked and hidden ranked.

I think that’s probably just a reality of gaming.

Opponents they would be comfortable against would be pointless - as you would have already killed them before they had the chance.

You’re definitely right there.

I’ve always thought that the problem is that Social playlists are too much like ranked ones. The same game rules. Same maps and layouts. And you wonder why the games become so sweaty.

Social needs to be mixed up.

Take the focus away from sweaty play; specifically map control (weapons, equipment, and spawns).

First of all I’d make it multi-team. 3v3v3 is just one more player on the map - but it makes everyone 1v2. You have no chance of map control or domination. So just get out there and slay.

Change up the weapons / load outs. Put more than one power weapon on the map. Mix up the grenades.

Take away spawn control. Give everyone 3 seconds of camo off spawn. You can’t be spawn shot if they don’t know you are there.

And finally, don’t be afraid to handicap players. Change up the scoring system (more points for better players). Better weapons, damage, or OS on spawn if your K/D is sagging. With the right set ups Onxy players and Bronze players could happily be running around in the same game.

The difficulty is getting the very good players to give up their God given right to stomp anyone who gets in their way. Sadly, this is the only way some player’s can “chill” and have fun. And in the end, showing off is probably more important to them than actually playing with their mates.

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my guy why are you always defending the ranking system in this game? it’s terrible, even the legend, snipedown himself has said so

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I think part of the problem with Halo Infinite is that the challenge system is forcing some of those “very good players” into the more social playlists that they might not play otherwise. Not separating team slayer from objective may also be a factor as the objective modes have tended to be more social (at least in my experience).

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Believe me you don’t want the consequences of this change. Bungie switched from SBMM to CBMM in their social playlists over 2 years ago in Destiny 2. It destroyed their player population. Most of their players now are tryhards. New players get demolished.

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I was a plat 6 in H5 just b4 Inf dropped I would get matched against champions all the time in social and I loved it tho it mostly devolved into a 1v4 (I was the 1)

not just that i should not be losing so much csr that i rank down when i go 34-20 and my teammates go 15-34….or losing csr when its a 1v4…i can hardly play this game anymore.

Because;

a) It’s sound (mathematically etc).

b) People’s criticism of it are largely hyperbole, lies, and/or a misrepresentation of what it supposed to do.

Need more context.

Most of the people I discuss this with are clearly better players than me. It just shows that talent at the game doesn’t automatically give you an understanding of ranking systems.

So… what where his criticisms? Where they just on the CSR journey (deserving) or against the actual MMR. Was he critical of TrueSkill2 itself? What was his proposal for something better?

What was his perspective? We know that any ranking system breaks down at the top end if you don’t provide valid data (eg. tournament structures). So I imagine the cream of the crop would have a very different perspective to the commoners.

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he tweeted that the ranking system is trash

mathematically and in practice are two different things, you should, no matter what, ever lose 10x more CSR than you get for a win, it’s a broken system.

this is your opinion not a fact, when multiple people who have never met say the same thing its most likely true.

so far since launch you are the only person on this forum i have met that defends this pitiful ranking system, (when pros start calling it out, you know its bad). its almost as if you are here on 343’s behalf to do damage control for it, cause you know quite a bit about how it works. If you want a ranking system that works look at H3(360) or R6S,

Wow. And my whole argument just goes down in flames.

I agree about the practice. 343 need to sell the system they put in place (as opposed to letting it get bogged down in misinformation and random tweets).

The CSR journey definitely needs some work.

But losing more for a win than a loss (or vice versa) is a cornerstone of any ranking system. It has to depend on the relative ranking of your opponent.

Both of which used TrueSkill.

The difference is in the way they sell the CSR.

Haven’t played R6 - but H3 worked because they didn’t try and sell you the MMR. It was free to behave as it wanted and you were sold a 1-50 approximation. And nobody cared about the minutia. There was no toxic play trying to work your way up from a 50.26 to a 50.27.

Hell, there were 20 hidden levels and people still look back at the system fondly.

The CSR system needs a rethink.

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Definitely not the only one. And I get the occasional thumbs up for my posts. :slight_smile:

Meh. I agree it was a compelling argument (as you transcribed it).

But the pros are a fickle bunch. There are enough postings about how the pros / HCS crowd are destroying Halo - so not everyone will believe what they say.

Nup. Just interested. And it has definitely been some interesting reading.

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I agree, ranking system is trash. Just go back to the h2 and 3 ranking system. You win 3, you go up. You lose 3, you go down.

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Darwi, it doesn’t matter how many times you explain the ranking system. Everybody hates it and it isn’t fun. That’s a huge issue.

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Not to mention it’s broken and doesn’t even work the way it’s “supposed” to work.

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