My take on the descope problem

Games Other Halo
1

Everyone brings up the fact that snipers are overpowered when they have a big flinch factor against opponents and I get that, but sometimes I hear people say in general they want to be taken out of scope. Now why is that?
Here’s a video ninja saying just that. “Let me be taken out of scope”

My take on descoping is I just think it’s a little goofy the way both you and your opponent are constantly clicking the stick while you’re fighting. I mean once you get good enough to where you start anticipating the rate at which the shots are coming at you (let’s say for a br it has it’s breaks in between bursts obviously), you can descope yourself by thinking you were going to get shot when they actually missed.

2

descoping is far superior to flinch.

i hope they bring it back in halo 5.

3

I think you misunderstand why the Sniper is OP. That or I have and have another take on why it is OP. Descope is what kept the sniper balanced. Flinch has little to do with it as far as I am concerned. Because of a lack of descope I can forever stay zoomed in. If you are at a decent range away, is it easier to hit my sniper shot while zoomed in, or out?. Zoomed out, you have very little aim assist to help you. This problem is heavily amplified on maps like Adrift where the sniper has massive sight lines and cover to retreat to.

Flinch is just stupid. It adds yet another random factor to the game we shouldn’t have to deal with. Give me one reason how Flinch improves the game? It is just frustrating more than anything.

4

> My take on descoping is I just think it’s a little goofy the way both you and your opponent are constantly clicking the stick while you’re fighting.

In that case, you have the option to either try to outshoot your opponent while unscoped or disengage and perhaps try to get closer. Yes, it is annoying to have to click the stick over and over again, which is why you shouldn’t do it.

Without descope, players can snipe with Sniper Rifles or DMRs and there’s no way to keep them in check.

If you want to hear in-depth arguments from both sides:

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst211131_Should-Sprint-Flinch-stay-in-the-Halo-series.aspx

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst222302_Descope-vs-Flinch.aspx

https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst222620_Flinch-vs-Descope.aspx

5

Yeah I get why the sniper is overpowered I just worded it wrong. I still don’t get why people say they “want to be descoped” as if getting descoped helps you. A lot of people also say “it was in the other halos”, well maybe I just don’t get why descope was put in halo to begin with. Why was it?

6

> I just don’t get why descope was put in halo to begin with. Why was it?

to balance a long range one shot kill (headshot) weapon.

7

> I still don’t get why people say they “want to be descoped” as if getting descoped helps you.

Descope doesn’t help the affected player; it helps the affected player’s enemies. The player has a long-range weapon, and his advantage is balanced by the descoping he will get if pinged by his enemies.

Without it, long-range weapons lose their counterbalance and and therefore become overpowered.

8

Then I guess the only reason they did it was because the binary rifle would be really hard to use. And that’s their fault for going with that.

9

> Yeah I get why the sniper is overpowered I just worded it wrong. I still don’t get why people say they “want to be descoped” as if getting descoped helps you. A lot of people also say “it was in the other halos”, well maybe I just don’t get why descope was put in halo to begin with. Why was it?

You may be taking their statements too literally. Maybe they want descope because they realize it would be for the better of the game? I think that almost everyone knows that it’s easier to hit shots without it, so I doubt they mean that it helps them.

Going a bit offtopic, there was such a satisfaction to hitting those quick shots in past Halo games with the sniper. Yeah, in other FPS communities like COD they’re called ‘quick-scopes’, and therefore we avoid using that terminology here. But the thing is in past Halos when a player was to quickly scope in and go for a kill, it wasn’t for the same reasons as COD. In COD they do it to be flashy, not because it’s the best chance they have at killing someone. There was a significant skill-gap in past Halo games between the players who had the ability to scope in quickly and land a body/headshot versus those that couldn’t.

10

> > Yeah I get why the sniper is overpowered I just worded it wrong. I still don’t get why people say they “want to be descoped” as if getting descoped helps you. A lot of people also say “it was in the other halos”, well maybe I just don’t get why descope was put in halo to begin with. Why was it?
>
> You may be taking their statements too literally. Maybe they want descope because they realize it would be for the better of the game? I think that almost everyone knows that it’s easier to hit shots without it, so I doubt they mean that it helps them.
>
> Going a bit offtopic, there was such a satisfaction to hitting those quick shots in past Halo games with the sniper. Yeah, in other FPS communities like COD they’re called ‘quick-scopes’, and therefore we avoid using that terminology here. But the thing is in past Halos when a player was to quickly scope in and go for a kill, it wasn’t for the same reasons as COD. In COD they do it to be flashy, not because it’s the best chance they have at killing someone. There was a significant skill-gap in past Halo games between the players who had the ability to scope in quickly and land a body/headshot versus those that couldn’t.

Except in Halo 4 I play with the fishstick button setting which puts the scope on the left trigger. Huge difference. Seriously it’s a completely different way of playing.

11

BTW the time you can take my shields down, I can already kill you in at least 2 shots easily because I can still keep my aim on you. Especially with the Stability mod.

With descope, your body becomes the size of an ant when you hit back. This makes it harder for players to no scope, especially on large maps. It doesn’t eliminate the ability to kill players, but it makes it so that everyone can have a chance at moving around the map without being killed instantly.

12

> BTW the time you can take my shields down, I can already kill you in at least 2 shots easily because I can still keep my aim on you. Especially with the Stability mod.
>
> With descope, your body becomes the size of an ant when you hit back. This makes it harder for players to no scope, especially on large maps. It doesn’t eliminate the ability to kill players, but it makes it so that everyone can have a chance at moving around the map without being killed instantly.

I don’t know what you meant by it makes it harder to no scope, more like it’s harder to stay zoomed in. It’s just goofy how you’re basically forced to noscope with a gun that gives you no aim assist (unless you’re zoomed in obviously).

13

The funny thing is that Halo 4 is the only halo to have magnetism on a no scope. Even with descope that would still be a huge problem.

14

I find descope annoying. I found it annoying in previous games.

I do wonder if it would be better to have no flinch and no descope, just straight up fighting, aiming and strafing, except for snipers. Thing is, in halo 4, snipers dish A LOT of flinch.

People say its more balanced and all… they don’t really explain how, as if it was objective. Long range combat is important too. Not just short range.

15

> People say its more balanced and all… they don’t really explain how, as if it was objective.

Dude, in a previous post, I just linked to several topics with pages and pages of objective arguments for descope.

> Long range combat is important too. Not just short range.

Long-range combat was non-existent in Halo 1-3 except for sniper weapons. It was first introduced to non-sniper weapons by the DMR in Reach, but the Reach DMR was balanced both by descope and by the crazy reticle bloom. Halo 4 has no such balance.

16

> I find descope annoying. I found it annoying in previous games.
>
> I do wonder if it would be better to have no flinch and no descope, just straight up fighting, aiming and strafing, except for snipers. Thing is, in halo 4, snipers dish A LOT of flinch.
>
> People say its more balanced and all… they don’t really explain how, as if it was objective. Long range combat is important too. Not just short range.

Dude. Think about this for a second:

You are literally saying that you want the snipers to remain zoomed in without any kind of detriment to being shot at and without any problem besides being assassinated (and even the Awareness mod fixes that).

This is basically asking all the guys with quick trigger fingers on the sniper to say “Hey, free kills. GO NUTS.”

The whole point of a sniper is that he can’t accurately aim his damn weapon if he’s being shot at.

17

Seriously the only reason descoping isn’t in this game is because the binary rifle would be really annoying to use

18

> > I find descope annoying. I found it annoying in previous games.
> >
> > I do wonder if it would be better to have no flinch and no descope, just straight up fighting, aiming and strafing, except for snipers. Thing is, in halo 4, snipers dish A LOT of flinch.
> >
> > People say its more balanced and all… they don’t really explain how, as if it was objective. Long range combat is important too. Not just short range.
>
> Dude. Think about this for a second:
>
> You are literally saying that you want the snipers to remain zoomed in without any kind of detriment to being shot at and without any problem besides being assassinated (and even the Awareness mod fixes that).
>
> This is basically asking all the guys with quick trigger fingers on the sniper to say “Hey, free kills. GO NUTS.”
>
> The whole point of a sniper is that he can’t accurately aim his damn weapon if he’s being shot at.

Not the sniper, normal weapons. Snipers could have massive flinch when they get shot.

@vector, perhaps I did not feel like goo g to three different threads for that. One of them wasn’t in depth.

So the argument is that it wasn’t in previous games? That’s not the strongest argument. Doesn’t explain the balance at all. Just that somehow long range combat is bad because it wasn’t in previous games.

19

> @vector, perhaps I did not feel like goo g to three different threads for that. One of them wasn’t in depth.

Hey, that’s fine. But to be honest, it doesn’t make sense to me to not do research and look up stuff on a topic before you enter a debate or discussion about it.

> So the argument is that it wasn’t in previous games? That’s not the strongest argument.

You said that “long range combat is important too.” I responded with (to paraphrase), “since when?”

Instead of writing yet another essay on the necessity of descope, I’ll just quote some posts from similar topics.

> Flinch kills halo for these simple reasons:
> 1. Most precision weapons can reach to about 1/3 to well over a whole map, what this means is anyone that is A. pulling down on the stick will maintain their target even while being fired upon (this kills the dynamic of finding cover and finding a new angle) B. not using Stability puts a player at moderate disadvantage .vs someone that is
>
> 2. Flinch makes double taps with sniper rifles too easy, prior to Halo 4 using the sniper meant that you had to kill your opponent BEFORE they started firing at you, descope prevented snipers from getting easy double taps on a target as well as giving his victim a chance to fight back. (This also serves as punishment for not getting a headshot and allowing your target to get a bead on you)
>
> 3. Flinch eliminates the need to move, again with past Halo titles, descope made combat more movement based, if you were peppering your target from afar scoped in and your target finds cover and begins firing back, you couldn’t sit there and continue shooting, once you were descoped you were at a disadvantage and had to move to find a better angle, This made long range encounters rather difficult which made players move in close but also added a layer of tactical movement. Flinch just makes it easier to stay in one spot and fire at the enemy with out thinking.
>
> 4. This one is what really bothers me, flinch has turned Halo into a “who ever sees who first wins” kind of game more or less, I know that it isn’t always true, but in the general case if you’re spotted at range before you can identify the shooter chances are if you aren’t 3 seconds sprinting distance to put something between you and the shooter you’re dead, with descope if you’re able to find the shooter quick enough you can shoot him/her out of their zoom and fight back, causing them to retreat or even kill them.
>
> Flinch distorts the pacing of the game, I’d much rather have descope back and I’m sure a good chunk of the community would agree.

> > or you could ya know outmaneuver your opponent and finish him off up close.
>
> Exactly! Descoping forces players to play intelligently by outmaneuvering your opponent. Halo has always about playing smart, and descoping was a huge part of that.

> Long-range rifles are one of the things that killed Halo 4 gameplay for me, especially since you can spawn with them. As long as players can spawn with weapons that can hit players with pinpoint accuracy across the map, players are going to hide in cover. Complex is a great example of this–half the map isn’t used because of how quickly you can get picked off by DMRs and LRs.
>
> I would prefer if weapons such as the DMR were buffed slightly and made on-map pickups only. Descope can remain as a way to balance the advantage of range, just like with the Sniper Rifle.

> When you see or get shot at by a sniper, he probably saw you first, so you need to get to cover.
>
> IF DESCOPE:
> If I break cover and ping him a few times with my rifle, I can keep him at bay and possibly make him retreat. It’s much more difficult to aim at long range when not scoped, so he can’t fire back accurately. While he’s distracted and unable to aim, either I or a teammate can move in closer for the kill.
>
> IF FLINCH:
> If I break cover and ping him a few times with my rifle, since he can still zoom in, he’s very likely to just headshot me while I’m shooting at him. He can easily pick me off before I can get close. Best thing to do is to just wait here until he loses interest.

20

Guys again the only reason they took away descoping was because of the way they made the binary rifle.

And you know what? I’ll admit it, it actually would have been better to not have the binary rifle’s no-scope sites be so damn huge because right now, when you’re not shooting a distance, it’s even easier than the other sniper rifles to no-scope with. That way, it would be fine to have descoping back.

Just… I donno… would having both flinch and descoping work well?