My Suggestion for Infinity Slayer.

First off, if this doesn’t belong in this part of the forums im sorry, and please move it, but i feel it fits since im using this game-type as an example of how IS could be worked to play on a more even playing field whilst offering some freedom.

So here’s my custom gametype ‘Infinity Slayer Mk.II’ what separates this from the standard infinity slayer, a few things:

First off, the ordnance system works differently, here’s a quick rundown of it:

First slot is all the loadout primaries, each with a weight of one, so thats: AR, BR, DMR, Storm rifle, Carbine, Suppressor and Lightrifle.

Second slot is all the grenades, also weighted at one each.

Finally, the third slot contains the three secondary weapons, however, the magnum and plasma pistol have weights of two, but the bolt-shot only has one, so its a bit rarer…

This ordnance system allows the ordnance system to remain, and be useful still, it can offer you grenades which is your only way of access to them right now if you play on a map with no grenades, and the plasma pistol or bolt-shot, making them more valuable.

Next, the loadout system works a bit differently too, thanks to the use of base player traits, heres how this works:

Primary: you can choose your own.
Secondary: Forced as a magnum.
Grenades: Forces as none (may change that, not sure).
Armor Abilities and Armor Mods are all forced as none. (i imagine thats a big plus to most people here).

Doing the loadout system this way allows you to choose the weapon that best suits your playstyle, and also keeps it balanced by not adding ‘perks’ or AAs, the reason behind the removal of grenades was to make it less of a nadespam (i find a lot of problems on H4 MM with this) and the forced magnum is down to two reasons.

  1. the plasma pistol can be a vehicle-nightmare, so in maps with vehicles, this wouldnt be an issue any more since you have to earn a PP from either ordnance or the map.

  2. boltshot. nuff said…

on a final note, this system will allow you to use your weapon skins aswell, so if you’d rather rock that Carbine RGN instead of the normal one, you can!

Now for the on-map systems, this gametype has been designed to work with Initial and Personal ordnance, no random drops, the initial’s i find acceptable since they’re static and in the same place, and can actually be used tactically to tell what weapons the enemy may possess if the marker vanishes (same reason they used the ordnance on the concussion rifle in the global championship finals)

the way i designed this system to work is as follows: most minor weapons will be on-map so you have to know where they are to get them, but the ‘key’ weapons of each map will be initial ordnance, so this would be used on power weapons like swords or rockets.

Here’s a link to my file share, containing this game-type for you to try out: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/players/deltagenesis/halo4/fileshare#!/?section=GameSettings&SearchDate=7&SortBy=2&view-select=Tile&startIndex=0

it has a 12 min time limit, first to 15 kills, no teams. this is because me and a friend tested it in a 1v1 scenario, so you can change that for team play no problem.

Also, here’s a link to the map ‘skyline’ that we modified for use with this gametype, apologies for people who don’t own the ‘Majestic’ map pack, but we used this map for testing, I’ll make a Haven variant for this too soon enough.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/players/deltagenesis/halo4/fileshare#!/?section=GameMap&SearchDate=7&SortBy=2&view-select=Tile&startIndex=0

This map features an initial ordnance needler spawning every 2 minutes in bottom-mid. and a plasma pistol atop each stand in the lower areas. i wanted combat to rely mainly on loadouts on this map, so i made sure the ‘power weapon’ of the map wasn’t too powerful, but its still very useful.

So to conclude, what do you guys think, would this be a good way of making infinity more balanced, whilst allowing the freedom it’s designed to deliver? vote above, and if you have suggestions for improving this, please tell me.

So…let me get this straight, the only thing we are able to chose is our primary gun. Nothing besides a magnum, no grenades, no armor abilities or mods? And ordnance don’t have power weapons?

Odd how things converge.

I’ve spent the last couple of months - and the last few days in particular - arguing that POD wasn’t an inherently bad idea, but it was being used for the wrong purpose. Using it as a resupply mechanism + a way to keep the PP and BS out of loadouts is a good use of POD.

My points of contention with the loadout plan are the forced magnum, no grenades, and no AAs. I don’t like these restrictions as a standard (for some gametypes it would be fine).

For grenades: Frags are fine, in my opinion. I do not find nadespam to be such a problem that it merits removing part of the Halo triangle (guns/grenade/melee). I think this would be a very unpopular decision (it certainly would be unpopular with me) with the player base as a whole, even if it would satisfy some. I am not opposed to 343i looking at tweaks to the nades to find a better middle ground between spam and usefulness, but I am adamantly opposed to removing them from spawn.

For the forced magnum: Unnecessary. Why not allow people to load out with AR, Sr, Suppressor, or Magnum in that slot? I agree entirely with the logic of removing the PP and BS, but disallowing automatic loadouts would really piss me off. Seriously. And it’s unnecessary. A good Magnum user can take out an auto user - not regularly, but it can be done. The Magnum is close enough to the autos that it’s not a game-breaking feature to let people choose between Magnums or autos.

Moreover, if you remove the “secondary” distinction from the Magnum and either slightly reduce the bloom or buff it to a 5SK, it’s on par with the rest of the primaries. It’s benefit would be fast ROF and quick ideal kill time. It’s drawback would be bloom that makes the ideal kill time difficult to achieve.

If you need a “penalty” to balance the perceived benefit of selecting an auto over the Magnum, you already have it built into your plan. Since only the Magnum, PP, or BS appear in the second POD slot, unless you load out with the Magnum, you cannot resupply your secondary via POD.

Either way - or even both - would be viable ways of removing the PP, BS, and firepower perk from loadouts without preventing auto users (like me with the SR) from being able to use their preferred weapon.

For the AAs: For the remaining players who stuck with H4, removing AAs from the game entirely in this way would not be remotely popular. As long as Infinity settings exist, AAs will need to be part of loadouts. If you wish to argue for their exclusion from Team, I’m all for it. But as a universal implementation? No.

For future Halos, I would request that 343i seriously consider limiting loadout AAs to just a few that can be properly balanced (same goes for perks). Hardlight, TP, and Hologram are currently the least objectionable, and I don’t think too many would complain if those were retained as loadout options. If they really feel the need to continue with jetpacks, camo, and PV . . . well, stick them on the map if the map suits those abilities.

I understand your reasons for wanting to exclude them, but it won’t work as a universal implementation for H4. You’ll have to compromise on that one. Remove them from Team? Sure. Remove them from Infinity? Not a good idea.

P.S. I voted “Yes” even though I feel the problems above are critical. The general thrust of your idea I support. Some of the specifics, I unquestionably oppose. But the overall thrust of the plan merits a “Yes”.

> For the forced magnum: Unnecessary. Why not allow people to load out with AR, Sr, Suppressor, or Magnum in that slot? I agree entirely with the logic of removing the PP and BS, but disallowing automatic loadouts would really piss me off. Seriously. And it’s unnecessary. A good Magnum user can take out an auto user - not regularly, but it can be done. The Magnum is close enough to the autos that it’s not a game-breaking feature to let people choose between Magnums or autos.

This is a problem with base player traits, also, you can spawn with ANY primary weapon, so AR, SR, or Suppressor can still be spawn choices… see, with base player traits, i can either make it ‘one weapon only’ or any weapon in that slot, i cant prohibit the boltshot or plasma pistol without forcing it to be one other weapon, so i went with magnum.

> I understand your reasons for wanting to exclude them, but it won’t work as a universal implementation for H4. You’ll have to compromise on that one. Remove them from Team? Sure. Remove them from Infinity? Not a good idea.

Thats something i myself can’t fix… that’d need to be 343i’s plan… making sure AA’s aren’t seen as OP, i can put em on map maybe… but right now they can be a real problem… so this IS a compromise effort… its not perfect, but its something…

> Stuff

I wasn’t suggesting you should change your gametype (which would be impossible to do with what I’ve suggested anyway). To be honest, I would enjoy playing your gametype a good bit. I was more referring to the idea of using it to fix the issues with Infinity in MM as a whole.

When I load out with autos, I always keep a precision with me (for obvious reasons). Removing the ability (now that we’ve had it) to ever load out with BR + SR in Infinity is not going to work. That was the point of my comment. There’s nothing you can do about that for your custom game, nor was I suggesting that you ought to try.

For the AAs - yep, agree. I was kind of hoping Team wouldn’t have them. But it does. However, I’ll happily make the trade between the Infinity version of POD and AAs . . . so I don’t mind too much.

Anyway, I wasn’t trying to say you’d made a bad gametype. I was saying that the gametype would not work as a universal fix for Infinity in Matchmaking. And it would be 343i that would have to fix it - you can’t do what I suggest in Customs.

I’m going to be blunt, at this point, with Team Slayer and Legendary BRs providing most of your ‘wants’, and 343 focusing more on playlist consolidation over tweaks to gametypes, I would not expect much to change. You just have to hope those gametypes get voted the most when you play.

> you can’t do what I suggest in Customs.

Exactly that, thanks for the positive feedback anyhow…

> I’m going to be blunt, at this point, with Team Slayer and Legendary BRs providing most of your ‘wants’, and 343 focusing more on playlist consolidation over tweaks to gametypes, I would not expect much to change. You just have to hope those gametypes get voted the most when you play.

I know, I’m not expecting 343i to put this into MM at all really, just asking if people would of preferred it… and offering my bit for customs too if people want it, my gripe with L.BRs is that its BR only (i’d miss my AR)… team slayer is a good mix, but this was just how I’D of done IS…

> So…let me get this straight, the only thing we are able to chose is our primary gun. Nothing besides a magnum, no grenades, no armor abilities or mods? And ordnance don’t have power weapons?

Doesn’t sound too bad does it?

> Doesn’t sound too bad does it?

I may add frag nades into the spawn loadout too, but no explosives armor mod… i’m also considering whether or not to include resupply if i do add frags…