My problem with the Armor in Halo

I have a soft cover version of the books “fall of reach” and “the flood” in a box in my work room. They are bent and slightly abused but I still read them. Original versions too, not the updated ones that corrected mistakes. In these books, and first strike, it’s described that all the Spartans wear the same armor: emerald green Mark IV/ V armor. It’s said at one point that if Halsey hadn’t memorized their body length characteristics she probably couldn’t tell them apart. Even captain keys had to hear chief speak in order to know exactly which Spartan was him. That’s kind of the coolest thing ever about the Spartans.

After Halo 3 came out it seemed they wanted to focus on trying to make the Spartans more diverse by including armor customization that didn’t really make sense in the established fiction. It’s like they tried to find loop holes as not to make themselves look bad or something, and honestly it feels forced in and I certainly believe that be a mistake. Not everything has to be canon from multiplayer to campaign.

This wouldn’t bother me so much if they hadn’t retroactively swapped designs for the Spartans in the books to look different, and for no good reason either. The entire point of the customization was to look different in game, but when applied to story suddenly things make a lot less sense because one suit is good for bomb explosions and another suit was meant for space walks, one suit has recording tech and another suit is meant to be lighter, etc. originally all the Spartans had the same suit, that did the same things. If you have a suit that can do all that stuff, why make individual suits with separate slight abilities over the other canon for the story? That doesn’t make sense, especially when the mark V can survive bomb explosion, records things on the visor without additional capture equipment, and is air tight for space walks.

In conclusion I think making the Spartan 2s have variants of the armor contrast to the original version of them wearing the same armor is a poor attempt to try and make Halo look cooler but ultimately makes it kinda childish visually. Swat teams don’t burst down your door wearing different equipment generally, it’s usually a basic uniform to protect them, and matching uniforms always feel more badass. And the Spartan IIs feel like a swat style team, at least from my standpoint.


Additionally:
-the Mark IV is described as being a chunkier, smoother version of the Mark V Crossed with a space suit, with a separate drop down visor for UV/BLAST protection that rests over the helmet. Why does all the versions of the mark IV we see look like asymmetric mark VI armor with more detail? I got all this for how the Spartans mention parts of the armor to themselves in the beginning half of the book fall of reach.

  • the Gen II armor having variety to them makes more sense because the UNSC had a small gap of time to perfect the Spartan process, and the Spartan IVs themselves have more style and matches their character. But the armor should all behave the same, keeping differences cosmetic. The Halo 4 system that shows you unlocking armor as you rank up also feels right for the IVs, and how INFINITY and recourses work.

  • depending on the circumstances, it would make sense that certain fire teams of IVs had the same armor, like gypsy company.

> If you have a suit that can do all that stuff, why make individual suits with separate slight abilities over the other canon for the story?

Becuase they were better at it.

In the real world military, you’ve got a basic uniform. Think of this as the Spartans tech suit. On top of that uniform you’ve got many, many diffrent permutations of gear to be worn with it, usually chosen by the solider, and usually they choose based on what type of gear is going to help that solider do his job to the best of his abilities. You also have a lot of soldiers who are specialists in several diffrent fields, real world EOD’s, heavy weapons, various vehicle operators, etc. all have a standard uniform, but the gear that goes onto their uniforms wildly varies. A squad heavy weapons specialist may have various pouches, or “bags” attached to his rucksack to carry the extra ammo that his SAW would need in an engagement. He may even have several storage pouches attached to his harness, belt, or any additional webbing he may choose to wear for more storage capacity. Pilots, or vehicle operators would want to equip a much lighter harness and carry less supplies since they’re usually not in combat away from their vehicle. EOD specialists would of course have a heavy bomb suit suited to their role. These diffrent real world harness set ups are equivalent to the armor permutations seen on top of our Spartans’ tech suits. Depending on the Spartan’s role they’d wear the appropriate armor best suited to that role.

As was said above, it just makes more sense in the military to have specialized gear. I’m sure the base Mjolnir is still a good “Jack-of-all-trades” sort of technology, but I imagine the UNSC realized they could boost its effectiveness for certain missions dramatically if they created add-ons made specifically FOR those missions.

That’s not saying they should go back and add CQB to First Contact or something, but it makes sense in later points of the timeline like Reach or 4 where the tech’s been around long enough for improvements to be made.

I hear all of you, and to be honest I expected those answers. It just doesn’t make sense in the time Halsey had to scrape together a working prototype, let alone variations of said suit in the time she had to get the Spartans moving. Even Deja’s comments on how time was not working in their favor with all the negative results in being able to make the suit work backs this up. That and the Spartans never really got a resupply after their initial meeting to get the mark IV until they all got Mark V. Then books make it seem like the Spartans went mission to mission wearing down their armor and never really doing much else, and John confirms that when they get the mark V.

Realisticly speaking, it seems far less creative to shoehorn in the variations into the canon for the Spartan IIs when they didn’t need them before in the books, and rely on their own level of ability Spartan to Spartan rather than the armor specially adjusting them before hand.

Example:
Kelly was the fastest Spartan before having the armor, and the armor increases her ability to run fast because the mark IV/V can boost the natural abilities of Spartans. All the Spartans have the same boost, but she was naturally faster.

now:

Kelly was the fastest Spartan before having armor, and her armor increases her ability to run faster than the other versions of the armor, designed specifically for her ability set, fine tuned to be better at that than everything at once.

Which one of those sounds like it fits the pressing timeline? Because it looks like they had barely enough time to turn on the lights before writing about chrome spinning rims and trick suspension.

Yeah, I should’ve clarified. This part of your original post I agree with. They shouldn’t try to retrofit the armor permutations into the existing timeline. It honestly makes more sense for the first iteration of mijlnor armor to only have the one standard type. It is for all intents and purposes the first stage of the program, so there shouldn’t really be any concern with variants until the mkV’s began production. It would make more sense to focus on working out the kinks in the system with the MK IV’s, then reiterating on the improvements in the MK V’s with some specialist gear slowly starting to trickle out alongside the MK V’s.

> 2533274807881644;1:
> I have a soft cover version of the books “fall of reach” and “the flood” in a box in my work room. They are bent and slightly abused but I still read them. Original versions too, not the updated ones that corrected mistakes. In these books, and first strike, it’s described that all the Spartans wear the same armor: emerald green Mark IV/ V armor. It’s said at one point that if Halsey hadn’t memorized their body length characteristics she probably couldn’t tell them apart. Even captain keys had to hear chief speak in order to know exactly which Spartan was him. That’s kind of the coolest thing ever about the Spartans.
>
> After Halo 3 came out it seemed they wanted to focus on trying to make the Spartans more diverse by including armor customization that didn’t really make sense in the established fiction. It’s like they tried to find loop holes as not to make themselves look bad or something, and honestly it feels forced in and I certainly believe that be a mistake. Not everything has to be canon from multiplayer to campaign.
>
> This wouldn’t bother me so much if they hadn’t retroactively swapped designs for the Spartans in the books to look different, and for no good reason either. The entire point of the customization was to look different in game, but when applied to story suddenly things make a lot less sense because one suit is good for bomb explosions and another suit was meant for space walks, one suit has recording tech and another suit is meant to be lighter, etc. originally all the Spartans had the same suit, that did the same things. If you have a suit that can do all that stuff, why make individual suits with separate slight abilities over the other canon for the story? That doesn’t make sense, especially when the mark V can survive bomb explosion, records things on the visor without additional capture equipment, and is air tight for space walks.
>
> In conclusion I think making the Spartan 2s have variants of the armor contrast to the original version of them wearing the same armor is a poor attempt to try and make Halo look cooler but ultimately makes it kinda childish visually. Swat teams don’t burst down your door wearing different equipment generally, it’s usually a basic uniform to protect them, and matching uniforms always feel more badass. And the Spartan IIs feel like a swat style team, at least from my standpoint.
>
> ___________________________
>
> Additionally:
> -the Mark IV is described as being a chunkier, smoother version of the Mark V Crossed with a space suit, with a separate drop down visor for UV/BLAST protection that rests over the helmet. Why does all the versions of the mark IV we see look like asymmetric mark VI armor with more detail? I got all this for how the Spartans mention parts of the armor to themselves in the beginning half of the book fall of reach.
>
> - the Gen II armor having variety to them makes more sense because the UNSC had a small gap of time to perfect the Spartan process, and the Spartan IVs themselves have more style and matches their character. But the armor should all behave the same, keeping differences cosmetic. The Halo 4 system that shows you unlocking armor as you rank up also feels right for the IVs, and how INFINITY and recourses work.
>
> - depending on the circumstances, it would make sense that certain fire teams of IVs had the same armor, like gypsy company.

I agree completely. The Spartans all wearing the same armor also contributed to the mythos of them being unable to be killed. They were identical God like soldiers that struck fear into their enemies.

I think the old school cover of Ghosts of Onyx is a correct illustration of the Spartan IIs in the right armor. Kelly is pointing with two fingers and is wearing Mark V armor and in the background you see another Spartan II (one of the ones who made it back to Earth after First Strike) wearing the standard Mark VI variant from Korea. And last but not least is either Kurt or one of the Spartan III’s wearing the SPI armor.

Although I too agree that it wouldn’t make sense to go back and change canon to have different Spartans wear different versions of Mjolnir, I don’t think over the course of the war (before they got Mk V) that Spartans would have worn the exact same armour they go back in 2525. As use and damage took its toll on the armour, it would have been replaced or repaired, and the Spartans themselves would probably have changed out their own armour for mission specific variants.

> 2535421460898210;8:
> Although I too agree that it wouldn’t make sense to go back and change canon to have different Spartans wear different versions of Mjolnir, I don’t think over the course of the war (before they got Mk V) that Spartans would have worn the exact same armour they go back in 2525. As use and damage took its toll on the armour, it would have been replaced or repaired, and the Spartans themselves would probably have changed out their own armour for mission specific variants.

I highly doubt it would have taken nearly 30 years for the Materials Group to come up with upgrades either…humanity isn’t THAT stupid. The Spartans aren’t gonna say no if they’re offered a chance to upgrade either I would think.

It doesn’t seem forced at all. Some Spartans are better at certain things than others and their armor reflects this. Linda is arguably the best sniper ever, and her helmet helps with this, as well as the rest of her gear and armor. It would make much less sense to give all the Spartans the same gear, yet give them different roles which is what was done in the books. I also have pretty much every book in soft cover until halo contact harvest, and in the books, all the Spartans had their own roles in their individual teams. Kelly was the rabbit, linda the sniper, and so on. Their armor should reflect this, especially if you want to make a military look and feel real.

Halo and realism don’t mix very well, and I’m sorry you don’t feel the same way I do about how forced the retcon feels.

Also as stated above, Halsey and Deja’s remarks about time constraints make it feel less likely they could multiple versions of the prototype, rather than how it originally was just the one prototype.

> 2533274953123640;2:
> > If you have a suit that can do all that stuff, why make individual suits with separate slight abilities over the other canon for the story?
>
>
> Becuase they were better at it.

Exactly, to play to the natural abilities of the wearer.

> 2535411711152989;13:
> > 2533274953123640;2:
> > > If you have a suit that can do all that stuff, why make individual suits with separate slight abilities over the other canon for the story?
> >
> >
> > Becuase they were better at it.
>
>
> Exactly, to play to the natural abilities of the wearer.

There is something far more impressive about the armor being able to boost the Spartan’s abilities regardless of who wears it rather than specific suit upgrades. When the team dropped on reach and several of them died and were otherwise too damaged to continue they swapped out parts. Therefor if they wind up cannibalizing parts from one suit to another they now have a suit that no longer fits their ability, but a hodge-podge of different suit parts that don’t exactly boost the wearer’s proffered skill set, unlike when they all wore the same suit and the suit could just adjutant to the Spartan.

Example: if a Spartan had to swap out parts with a suit for EOD when they were geared for running faster then the EOD can’t calibrate the proper boost for that set of abilities. But if all suits are universal then ther isn’t a problem.

> 2533274807881644;5:
> I hear all of you, and to be honest I expected those answers. It just doesn’t make sense in the time Halsey had to scrape together a working prototype, let alone variations of said suit in the time she had to get the Spartans moving. Even Deja’s comments on how time was not working in their favor with all the negative results in being able to make the suit work backs this up.

Here ya go
http://ifunny.co/fun/eMc6ECM54

> 2533274807881644;14:
> > 2535411711152989;13:
> > > 2533274953123640;2:
> > > > If you have a suit that can do all that stuff, why make individual suits with separate slight abilities over the other canon for the story?
> > >
> > >
> > > Becuase they were better at it.
> >
> >
> > Exactly, to play to the natural abilities of the wearer.
>
>
> There is something far more impressive about the armor being able to boost the Spartan’s abilities regardless of who wears it rather than specific suit upgrades. When the team dropped on reach and several of them died and were otherwise too damaged to continue they swapped out parts. Therefor if they wind up cannibalizing parts from one suit to another they now have a suit that no longer fits their ability, but a hodge-podge of different suit parts that don’t exactly boost the wearer’s proffered skill set, unlike when they all wore the same suit and the suit could just adjutant to the Spartan.
>
> Example: if a Spartan had to swap out parts with a suit for EOD when they were geared for running faster then the EOD can’t calibrate the proper boost for that set of abilities. But if all suits are universal then ther isn’t a problem.

Just because EVA is better at space walks doesn’t mean the other suits can’t do space walks. Just because EOD is better for explosive ordinance doesn’t mean the others can’t do the same job. The suits are specialized but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t universal as well

> 2533274904397463;16:
> > 2533274807881644;14:
> > > 2535411711152989;13:
> > > > 2533274953123640;2:
> > > > > If you have a suit that can do all that stuff, why make individual suits with separate slight abilities over the other canon for the story?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Becuase they were better at it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Exactly, to play to the natural abilities of the wearer.
> >
> >
> > There is something far more impressive about the armor being able to boost the Spartan’s abilities regardless of who wears it rather than specific suit upgrades. When the team dropped on reach and several of them died and were otherwise too damaged to continue they swapped out parts. Therefor if they wind up cannibalizing parts from one suit to another they now have a suit that no longer fits their ability, but a hodge-podge of different suit parts that don’t exactly boost the wearer’s proffered skill set, unlike when they all wore the same suit and the suit could just adjutant to the Spartan.
> >
> > Example: if a Spartan had to swap out parts with a suit for EOD when they were geared for running faster then the EOD can’t calibrate the proper boost for that set of abilities. But if all suits are universal then ther isn’t a problem.
>
>
> Just because EVA is better at space walks doesn’t mean the other suits can’t do space walks. Just because EOD is better for explosive ordinance doesn’t mean the others can’t do the same job. The suits are specialized but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t universal as well

You aren’t picking up on what I’m laying down.

its more impressive if the Spartans were able to do what they do with thier natural abilities being enhanced by a universal suit of armor, rather than one that was specialized towards those specific abilities inherintly. I don’t know a better way to explain it, it’s just not as good as far as writing is concerned.

the Spartans being THAT GOOD without specialized armor per Spartan was far more interesting than them having Indidual suits that focused on certain attributes.

when the suits were universal it made sense when they swapped out parts, because it didn’t matter, all the suits do the same thing. By definition, specialized suits aren’t truly universal apart from generating a shield and how smaller components worked. That’s the whole point. EOD equipment can’t be used for speed booted Spartans to keep their speed up because it’s not calibrated for it, but the universal Mark V doesn’t have that problem because they are all the same.

> 2533274807881644;17:
> > 2533274904397463;16:
> > > 2533274807881644;14:
> > > > 2535411711152989;13:
> > > > > 2533274953123640;2:
> > > > > > If you have a suit that can do all that stuff, why make individual suits with separate slight abilities over the other canon for the story?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Becuase they were better at it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Exactly, to play to the natural abilities of the wearer.
> > >
> > >
> > > There is something far more impressive about the armor being able to boost the Spartan’s abilities regardless of who wears it rather than specific suit upgrades. When the team dropped on reach and several of them died and were otherwise too damaged to continue they swapped out parts. Therefor if they wind up cannibalizing parts from one suit to another they now have a suit that no longer fits their ability, but a hodge-podge of different suit parts that don’t exactly boost the wearer’s proffered skill set, unlike when they all wore the same suit and the suit could just adjutant to the Spartan.
> > >
> > > Example: if a Spartan had to swap out parts with a suit for EOD when they were geared for running faster then the EOD can’t calibrate the proper boost for that set of abilities. But if all suits are universal then ther isn’t a problem.
> >
> >
> > Just because EVA is better at space walks doesn’t mean the other suits can’t do space walks. Just because EOD is better for explosive ordinance doesn’t mean the others can’t do the same job. The suits are specialized but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t universal as well
>
>
> its more impressive if the Spartans were able to do what they do with their natural abilities being enhanced by a universal suit of armor, rather than one that was specialized towards those specific abilities inherintly. I don’t know a better way to explain it, it’s just not as good as far as writing is concerned.
>
> the Spartans being THAT GOOD without specialized armor per Spartan was far more interesting than them having Indidual suits that focused on certain attributes.

The Spartans are that good without the specialized armor, but the specialized armor better accommodates what they can do. Kelly is just as fast in base Mk.V as she would be in a specialized suit, but the specialized suit was made for extra fast Spartans and the base suit is more all purpose

> 2533274904397463;15:
> > 2533274807881644;5:
> > I hear all of you, and to be honest I expected those answers. It just doesn’t make sense in the time Halsey had to scrape together a working prototype, let alone variations of said suit in the time she had to get the Spartans moving. Even Deja’s comments on how time was not working in their favor with all the negative results in being able to make the suit work backs this up.
>
>
> Here ya go
> http://ifunny.co/fun/eMc6ECM54

That’s still using updated canon, and I stated before: it doesn’t fit the original timeline given in the old version of the books. In those books there was no Mark VB, there wasn’t more than one version of the mark IV Either, again this is according to the original writing from 2001-2. All the change they made feels forced, ecpecislly the “most of the mark V is just IV” which kind of negated everything Halsey said about rebuilding the armor from the ground up to make the Mark V work.

> 2533274807881644;19:
> > 2533274904397463;15:
> > > 2533274807881644;5:
> > > I hear all of you, and to be honest I expected those answers. It just doesn’t make sense in the time Halsey had to scrape together a working prototype, let alone variations of said suit in the time she had to get the Spartans moving. Even Deja’s comments on how time was not working in their favor with all the negative results in being able to make the suit work backs this up.
> >
> >
> > Here ya go
> > http://ifunny.co/fun/eMc6ECM54
>
>
> All the change they made feels forced, ecpecislly the “most of the mark V is just IV” which kind of negated everything Halsey said about rebuilding the armor from the ground up to make the Mark V work.

Maybe I should have worded that part better. The techsuit and other tech that would stay the same in every version of mk.V was rebuilt from the ground up. But the specialized versions that took decades to finalize during the Mk.IV days, Mk.V didn’t come up with their own designs they instead “ported” the old ones over to Mk.V. However some like gungnir were new to Mk.V