My Playlist rework proposal

These are the (2) main issues that I see with current playlists and their populations.

  1. REDUNDANCY SPLITTING POPULATIONS - You have 3 playlists that are very similar in many aspects (4v4 Team Slayer, All AA Loadouts, Maps, etc) with only select variables (Bloom, 2 slightly nerfed AAs, Sword Block) separating them. And in reality most players would consider only Bloom a “deal breaker” as far as which list they’d rather play.

  2. LACK OF RANKS/COMPETITIVE OUTLETS - Besides The Arena and MLG, most players would say there is no competitive merit to most of the playlists - even from a settings standpoint. They are all social and with the removal of squad there really isn’t even a “competitive social” playlist anymore to be honest.

This is my proposed rework of the playlists with those (2) factors in mind.

  1. I have combined “redundant” lists.
  2. I have proposed (2) new “competitive” or “social competitive” lists.

MY PROPOSED PLAYLISTS:

  1. Vanilla Slayer/Super Slayer Combined (Have the choice in lobby just like when they were testing.)
    2a. Invasion
    2b. Squad DLC (edited)
  2. Snipers
  3. Swat
  4. Multi-Team
  5. Doubles
  6. Rumble Pit
  7. Team Objective (4v4 or 5v5)
  8. Big Team Battle
  9. (Removed ZB Slayer)
  10. Action Sack
  11. Living Dead
  12. The Arena

Anniversary
14. Anniversary BTB
15. Anniversary Squad/Classic Combined (Both as voting options in lobby)
16. Anniversary FFA

Community
17. MLG
18. Grifball

2 NEW LISTS
19. Competitive BTB (BigTeamBattle.net Community List)

  1. ZB Squad Slayer (A more classic Team Slayer Halo Experience with the benefits of Reach. I call it “competitive social” and have found that most everyone that has played customs of it of all skill levels really enjoyed it.)

-5v5 Slayer
-DMR/AR Starts Always
-Zero Bloom
-120 Speed, No AAs
-Increased Jump Height
-Sword, Rockets and other power weapons included on some maps. A few pistols on 2 minute respawn on maps to be considered as power weapons.
-Proposed Maps (Boardwalk, Countdown, Zealot, Tempest, Battle Canyon, Powerhouse, Anchor 9, The Pit, Sanctuary, Select, Kingdom, Oasis and possibly a couple other community creations.)

I feel my proposal reduces closely redundant playlists that are currently splitting populations - while giving their players a legitimate replacement/outlet. It also adds 2 more competitive playlist outlets for those that desire a more classic Halo experience with the benefits of Reach without being limited to MLG.

ZB Squad Slayer with your proposed settings would be amazing.

seems fair enough

Many players here are complaining about how Invasion has Invasion Skirmish and Invasion Slayer gametypes. They’re not going to react well if they have to play in a playlist with MANY other gametypes in it. In addition, they also do not want to have to buy ALL the DLC just to play it. Most likely the playlist will still have a low population and will be very laggy, which may be worse on large scale gametypes like Invasion than the Slayer and Objective ones in Squad DLC.

If you add Invasion back, you’ll have enough room, but in case you need one more slot for your proposal, I would suggest cutting ZB Slayer since you already have ZB Squad Slayer.

In addition, you also have many other factors to consider that may take up slots: Arena, DLC, Max Local Players, etc.

Lastly, I don’t know if Competitive BTB will last very long. Remember that the core of BTB is vehicular combat. There is very little of that from what I’ve seen on your maps. I don’t think that people who play Grifball, Infection, Action Sack, and many in normal BTB want to play competitive BTB.

> Many players here are complaining about how Invasion has Invasion Skirmish and Invasion Slayer gametypes. They’re not going to react well if they have to play in a playlist with MANY other gametypes in it. In addition, they also do not want to have to buy ALL the DLC just to play it. Most likely the playlist will still have a low population and will be very laggy, which may be worse on large scale gametypes like Invasion than the Slayer and Objective ones in Squad DLC.

Well I was more thinking that IF the players in the lobby had the DLC, it would show up. Honestly I think they’re both terrible playlists - but just because it’s not my cup of tea doesn’t mean some don’t enjoy it. However, their low populations speak for themselves. Due to a couple key elements (Vanilla Settings and Team Size) it seems worth investigating if compromises could be made to combine them.

> If you add Invasion back, you’ll have enough room, but in case you need one more slot for your proposal, I would suggest cutting ZB Slayer since you already have ZB Squad Slayer.
>
> In addition, you also have many other factors to consider that may take up slots: Arena, DLC, Max Local Players, etc.

My proposal still reduces one playlist even with the additions, but cutting ZB slayer could work. I have a feeling the players that populate that list would like my proposed squad list. I also think it would be a “social” list that many MLG players would frequent when they want something a little different.

> Lastly, I don’t know if Competitive BTB will last very long. Remember that the core of BTB is vehicular combat. There is very little of that from what I’ve seen on your maps. I don’t think that people who play Grifball, Infection, Action Sack, and many in normal BTB want to play competitive BTB.

Competitive BTB wouldn’t be in place to appeal to the populations of those lists - with the exception of some normal BTB players. Grifball, Infection, Action Sack players are probably the exact opposite of the players that would enjoy it. I agree that it could be a chance not knowing how some players would react to it, but it can’t make BTB worse than heavies has. shrug

Rather than have both ZB Slayer and ZB Squad Slayer, it would be probably be better to replace the current version with your settings, which are infinitely better.

Invasion carries a healthy population, so I don’t think we need to merge it with Squad DLC.

But I like the Competitive BTB playlist. It means we can play BTB again, rather than non-stop Heavies.

> <mark>Rather than have both ZB Slayer and ZB Squad Slayer, it would be probably be better to replace the current version with your settings, which are infinity better.</mark>
> YES
> <mark>Invasion carries a healthy population, so I don’t think we need to merge it with Squad DLC.</mark>
> I would never play that playlist even if there is a 1% of playing INVASION
> <mark>But I like the Competitive BTB playlist. It means we can play BTB again, rather than non-stop Heavies</mark>.
> YEAH

Fixed For ME

If I remember rightly, Invasion can’t be DLC required as there is a default reach achievement associated with it. Also, I doubt 343 will remove Anniversary Firefight, otherwise those that only own anniversary will have nowhere to play Installation 04.

I would also make big parties match each other in ZB Squad Slayer and competitive BTB.

> > Many players here are complaining about how Invasion has Invasion Skirmish and Invasion Slayer gametypes. They’re not going to react well if they have to play in a playlist with MANY other gametypes in it. In addition, they also do not want to have to buy ALL the DLC just to play it. Most likely the playlist will still have a low population and will be very laggy, which may be worse on large scale gametypes like Invasion than the Slayer and Objective ones in Squad DLC.
>
> Well I was more thinking that IF the players in the lobby had the DLC, it would show up. Honestly I think they’re both terrible playlists - but just because it’s not my cup of tea doesn’t mean some don’t enjoy it. However, their low populations speak for themselves. Due to a couple key elements (Vanilla Settings and Team Size) it seems worth investigating if compromises could be made to combine them.

Are you out of your mind?

As of about an hour ago, Invasion was the 7th most popular PvP playlist. It is more popular than: Multi-Team, Double Team, team objective, tu zb slayer, rumble pit, The Arena, Super Slayer, Anniversary BTB, Anniversary FFA, MLG and Action Sack. I suspect the main reason it does not carry more population than Grifball as well at the moment is due to the ‘close quarters’ daily challenge.

What’s more, that’s with basically ONE gametype on a measely TWO launch maps - neither of which are perfect. It has received the least updates and it is the playlist that has gone the longest without updates now.

It defies all evidence to say that Invasion is unpopular and needs to be merged with another playlist.

Whats more, Invasion cannot be DLC required to due some on-map achievements tied to the mode. The DLC maps wouldn’t show up and then players would never get to play Noble or Defiant! Not to mention the fact that when players come to Invasion they come looking for Spartan Vs. Elite - the gametypes in Squad DLC are all Spartan vs. Spartan.

To then say that another TU ZB-based playlist needs to be created seems rich - given that TU ZB Slayer is consistently the 2nd least-popular playlist in the entire game. The old classic playlist didn’t last, and the ‘classic’ urge is to a large extent fulfilled by the Anniversary maps, gametypes and playlists. There is little reason to expect that the addition of yet another playlist on the theme, with wildly different settings, is truly in demand or would actually last.

Added to that, you want a hardcore BTB playlist (based on your own league’s gametypes no less, hohohoho), when the precise reason BTB has become more popular recently was the addition of the Heavy ‘casual’ gametypes and maps you so despise. Hardcore playlists are always less played, ranked BTB in Halo 3 didn’t last, and there is no new evidence to suggest that a hardcore BTB would last in Reach - the least of which if it adopted your league’s settings.

Finally, merging Squad Slayer and Team Slayer sounds great in theory - until you’re forced to play the mode you don’t like/aren’t familiar with. It would create an inconsistent and ultimately frustrating experience with AAs and weapons acting differently from game-to-game in the same playlist - thats the reason they split them in the first place.

In summary, I have little reason to believe any of your suggestions will be adopted, would be very surpised if they were, and I’ll publicly apologise and eat my words if they are. Yes, you can quote me on that too.

>

This guy again… starts off a post with “are you out of your mind?”

Please report his post, I’m surprised he has been allowed to continue to flame and harass other members.

> > > Many players here are complaining about how Invasion has Invasion Skirmish and Invasion Slayer gametypes. They’re not going to react well if they have to play in a playlist with MANY other gametypes in it. In addition, they also do not want to have to buy ALL the DLC just to play it. Most likely the playlist will still have a low population and will be very laggy, which may be worse on large scale gametypes like Invasion than the Slayer and Objective ones in Squad DLC.
> >
> > Well I was more thinking that IF the players in the lobby had the DLC, it would show up. Honestly I think they’re both terrible playlists - but just because it’s not my cup of tea doesn’t mean some don’t enjoy it. However, their low populations speak for themselves. Due to a couple key elements (Vanilla Settings and Team Size) it seems worth investigating if compromises could be made to combine them.
>
> Are you out of your mind?
>
> As of about an hour ago, Invasion was the 7th most popular PvP playlist. It is more popular than: Multi-Team, Double Team, team objective, tu zb slayer, rumble pit, The Arena, Super Slayer, Anniversary BTB, Anniversary FFA, MLG and Action Sack. I suspect the main reason it does not carry more population than Grifball as well at the moment is due to the ‘close quarters’ daily challenge.
>
> What’s more, that’s with basically ONE gametype on a measely TWO launch maps - neither of which are perfect. It has received the least updates and it is the playlist that has gone the longest without updates now.
>
> It defies all evidence to say that Invasion is unpopular and needs to be merged with another playlist.
>
> Whats more, Invasion cannot be DLC required to due some on-map achievements tied to the mode. The DLC maps wouldn’t show up and then players would never get to play Noble or Defiant! Not to mention the fact that when players come to Invasion they come looking for Spartan Vs. Elite - the gametypes in Squad DLC are all Spartan vs. Spartan.

You completely ignored my follow-up addendum. Fine leave the two separate and let Squad DLC sit there. I don’t care.

> To then say that another TU ZB-based playlist needs to be created seems rich - given that TU ZB Slayer is consistently the 2nd least-popular playlist in the entire game. The old classic playlist didn’t last, and the ‘classic’ urge is to a large extent fulfilled by the Anniversary maps, gametypes and playlists. There is little reason to expect that the addition of yet another playlist on the theme, with wildly different settings, is truly in demand or would actually last.

The reason ZB Slayer isn’t played more is probably because it’s trying to appeal to two different types of people. The ones that want to play ZB - don’t want derp AL. It doesn’t go far enough in going with more competitive settings. And the reason people don’t play Anniversary - is because the maps are TERRIBLE for the most part and you play the same handful of maps over and over. Battle Canyon is the only decently balanced slayer map.

Which is also why I agreed with the follow up suggestion to remove the current ZB Slayer and replace it with ZB Squad. And the settings aren’t wildly different. It’s very similar to MLG - with a slightly more social aspect to it. (Adding the AR secondary, sword and other weapons on the maps, etc.)

> Added to that, you want a hardcore BTB playlist (based on your own league’s gametypes no less, hohohoho), when the precise reason BTB has become more popular recently was the addition of the Heavy ‘casual’ gametypes and maps you so despise. Hardcore playlists are always less played, ranked BTB in Halo 3 didn’t last, and there is no new evidence to suggest that a hardcore BTB would last in Reach - the least of which if it adopted your league’s settings.

Calling BTB.net settings “hardcore” is a bit of a joke really. They are far from it. And yes I despise them. If you search with a full party (not even a team - just a mixed party), half of you can go AFK (which we do) and still spawnkill to an oblivion. It’s a joke and boring. Which is why you rarely see full parties, let alone teams searching it in MM.

> Finally, merging Squad Slayer and Team Slayer sounds great in theory - until you’re forced to play the mode you don’t like/aren’t familiar with. It would create an inconsistent and ultimately frustrating experience with AAs and weapons acting differently from game-to-game in the same playlist - thats the reason they split them in the first place.

There is no Squad Slayer. That got removed for derp Super Slayer which is exactly Team Slayer with slightly altered bloom and AAs which is exactly ZB Slayer but no bloom. Hence my point. Pick your casual slayer playlist and a bloom setting and stop splitting those populations. You don’t think they should produce a playlist with weapons that are inconsistent thereby creating a frustrating experience you say? Heh. Oh the irony.

> In summary, I have little reason to believe any of your suggestions will be adopted, would be very surpised if they were, and I’ll publicly apologise and eat my words if they are. Yes, you can quote me on that too.

I have little reason to believe they will either. I have no faith at all to be perfectly honest. But it’s not going to stop me from posting it.

Since the removal of squad I have no reason to play MM in this game aside from simply spending time with friends. I’m not good and I’m not a tryhard player - yet I still want something decently competitive. If I play MM - I’m usually bored out of my mind going AFK or miserable. I do customs or MLG. All I’m asking for is one decently competitive “social” list that isn’t derpy and has good balanced maps. Is that really too much to ask for from a Halo game?

> If I remember rightly, Invasion can’t be DLC required as there is a default reach achievement associated with it. Also, I doubt 343 will remove Anniversary Firefight, otherwise those that only own anniversary will have nowhere to play Installation 04.
>
> I would also make big parties match each other in ZB Squad Slayer and competitive BTB.

I didn’t mean they should remove Firefight. There is an Anniversary FFA playlist. I’ve never personally played it and have no idea what the population is or how it operates. That’s why I just left it as a question mark.

And I completely agree with your party matching suggestion.

Why the hell would you want to combine Squad DLC and Invasion?

It’s better to have a lot of playlists, then to ruin playlists by combining them for no reason.

That’s like if you combined team swat with team snipers. pointless.

The only things I’ll really give you are ZB Squad and a BTB.net settings playlist.

Personally, your ZB Squad suggestion should just replace ZB Slayer, but I would rather use the GoldPro settings for a second ZB playlist other than MLG.

Combining Team Slayer/Super Slayer would be a mistake since the voting session warranted a split, based off of the result. Super Slayer should just take the Team Slayer name while Vanilla 4v4 is preserved in a vanilla hopper.

Invasion is unique to Reach, and as a previous poster pointed out, it holds strong despite little updating. That could also be put into the Vanilla hopper, and perhaps normal BTB could use the original Armor Lock, to stop vehicles.

I also don’t agree with the Anniv. Squad/Classic merger, since that would be inconsistent. Anniversary has its own unique settings and should be dominant in the Anniversary playlists, despite the Anniv. Pistol and its shortcomings. If anything, throw out Anniv. BTB and reinstate Anniv. Squad with 6v6 and no Anniversary settings.

> Why the hell would you want to combine Squad DLC and Invasion?
>
>
> It’s better to have a lot of playlists, then to ruin playlists by combining them for no reason.
>
> That’s like if you combined team swat with team snipers. pointless.

I updated the original post to reflect my changed thinking based on previous posts, since it seems a lot of people skip reading the follow-up.

Imo there should be a proper DLC playlist again - something that can replace Squad DLC but maintain a better population. Noble should be required and most heavily weighted, since Anniversary already has its own category and Defiant is probably the least popular map pack. 6v6, TU’d with both slayer and objective.

Invasion playlist just needs new maps. Never merged with something else.

Make a couple forged maps for Invasion, and add in the Defiant and Anniversary maps for Invasion Slayer and Skirmish since those maps are a whole more suitable to the gametypes than on say…Hemorrhage.

Personally, I think the Vanilla settings should get a Grab bag playlist with Slayer and Objective gametypes while Super Slayer and ZB Slayer are merged into a Team Slayer/Squad Slayer whatever its called playlist.

OP, you’ve got my vote. There is WAY too much redundancy in the playlist selection right now.