My opinion on Elites in Multiplayer

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

This is gonna be a tough one to write about without offending the hardcore elite fans so try and bear with me.

The reasons I believe that elites will NOT be returning are as follows:

The lore of the war games is that it’s Spartans only, war games are almost like a sport for Spartans

Elites aren’t on the same level as a Spartan, their strength is not as great and the fact is that they just can’t hold a candle to their abilities. The elites size is also something to consider, seeing as elites are much larger and bulkier, it would not be fair for them to have such a huge hitbox in multiplayer. I personally am against just shrinking enemies down so we can play as them.

The hitboxes have to be practically identical to keep things consistent and fair, especially if Halo is to become a super competitive e-sports type game.

Elites would have to get as much customization options as Spartans do and that seems ridiculous to me. It would be way too much extra work because it wouldn’t be fair to give them the backseat, as Bungie always has.

In closing, I just don’t think Elites are “essential” to Halo’s multiplayer. Spartans are really the core of it and I think 343 is better off expanding on them rather than compromising and adding in shrunken elites with little options for customization.

2

> This is gonna be a tough one to write about without offending the hardcore elite fans so try and bear with me.
>
> The reasons I believe that elites will NOT be returning are as follows:
>
> <mark>The lore of the war games is that it’s Spartans only, war games are almost like a sport for Spartans</mark>

Except that Elites have made a canonical appearance within Wargames during Halo Escalation. They were for training practice within the Invasion game mode. Just like how the Flood were there in the Flood mode.

Plus it’s not like it’s not within 343’s power to just write the Elites into the story. The Elite separatists are just sitting there waiting for 343 to do something with them.

> Elites aren’t on the same level as a Spartan, their strength is not as great and the fact is that they just can’t hold a candle to their abilities. The elites size is also something to consider, seeing as elites are much larger and bulkier, it would not be fair for them to have such a huge hitbox in multiplayer. I personally am against just shrinking enemies down so we can play as them.

Game play over canon. Plus there’s the fact that we don’t have any hard facts regarding the SIV’s combat effectiveness.

> The hitboxes have to be practically identical to keep things consistent and fair, especially if Halo is to become a super competitive e-sports type game.

By the sounds of things you’d be a supporter of the Reach style treatment of Elites. Just because they come back doesn’t mean they have to be perfectly balanced for competitive play.

> Elites would have to get as much customization options as Spartans do and that seems ridiculous to me. It would be way too much extra work because it wouldn’t be fair to give them the backseat, as Bungie always has.

They wouldn’t have to. It’s just something that the community would prefer. Considering that 343 have a new console to work with and the fact that this is a sequel to Halo 4 the community’s expecting more customization options with or without Elites. Plus there’s the fact that despite the fact that Halo 4 had a lot of options, there were a lot of flops. Quality over quantity is something that 343 should put more focus on in Halo 5 and putting some of that quality towards Elites after a game that had no Elites at all is no different than me asking for them to bring the CQB armor back.

> In closing, I just don’t think Elites are “essential” to Halo’s multiplayer. Spartans are really the core of it and I think 343 is better off expanding on them rather than compromising and adding in shrunken elites with little options for customization.

Then lets just remove all customization because none of it’s “essential”.

You may think that Spartans should be the core and the core alone but there’s a 450 page thread here with community members saying otherwise.

If you don’t want shrunken Elites and you think that they could compromise the multiplayer fine. That just means you should be asking for the Reach style treatment, not their complete removal.

And for the record I think I should just put it out there that I’m not an Elite player and I probably never will be but I also know that there are a lot of community members that get a great deal of enjoyment out of Elites and Halo just isn’t the same for them without their inclusion.

3

Invasion is a simulation in War Games so its not just Spartans. :wink:

I think Elites shouldn’t be shrunk to Spartan size but we can’t just ignore them. In Reach I think that making them the intimidating large warriors that they should be was fine.

I want intimidating Elites with different armor to choose from (remember the spec ops Elites from Headhunters?) and ammo pouches. I will be set for my appearance in H5.

I don’t think that the Elites and the Elite community should be ignored.

Mega explains it better.

4

> > This is gonna be a tough one to write about without offending the hardcore elite fans so try and bear with me.
> >
> > The reasons I believe that elites will NOT be returning are as follows:
> >
> > <mark>The lore of the war games is that it’s Spartans only, war games are almost like a sport for Spartans</mark>
>
> Except that Elites have made a canonical appearance within Wargames during Halo Escalation. They were for training practice within the Invasion game mode. Just like how the Flood were there in the Flood mode.
>
> Plus it’s not like it’s not within 343’s power to just write the Elites into the story. The Elite separatists are just sitting there waiting for 343 to do something with them.
>
>
>
> > Elites aren’t on the same level as a Spartan, their strength is not as great and the fact is that they just can’t hold a candle to their abilities. The elites size is also something to consider, seeing as elites are much larger and bulkier, it would not be fair for them to have such a huge hitbox in multiplayer. I personally am against just shrinking enemies down so we can play as them.
>
> Game play over canon. Plus there’s the fact that we don’t have any hard facts regarding the SIV’s combat effectiveness.
>
>
>
>
> > The hitboxes have to be practically identical to keep things consistent and fair, especially if Halo is to become a super competitive e-sports type game.
>
> By the sounds of things you’d be a supporter of the Reach style treatment of Elites. Just because they come back doesn’t mean they have to be perfectly balanced for competitive play.
>
>
>
> > Elites would have to get as much customization options as Spartans do and that seems ridiculous to me. It would be way too much extra work because it wouldn’t be fair to give them the backseat, as Bungie always has.
>
> They wouldn’t have to. It’s just something that the community would prefer. Considering that 343 have a new console to work with and the fact that this is a sequel to Halo 4 the community’s expecting more customization options with or without Elites. Plus there’s the fact that despite the fact that Halo 4 had a lot of options, there were a lot of flops. Quality over quantity is something that 343 should put more focus on in Halo 5 and putting some of that quality towards Elites after a game that had no Elites at all is no different than me asking for them to bring the CQB armor back.
>
>
>
>
> > In closing, I just don’t think Elites are “essential” to Halo’s multiplayer. Spartans are really the core of it and I think 343 is better off expanding on them rather than compromising and adding in shrunken elites with little options for customization.
>
> Then lets just remove all customization because none of it’s “essential”.
>
> You may think that Spartans should be the core and the core alone but there’s a 450 page thread here with community members saying otherwise.
>
> If you don’t want shrunken Elites and you think that they could compromise the multiplayer fine. That just means you should be asking for the Reach style treatment, not their complete removal.
>
> And for the record I think I should just put it out there that I’m not an Elite player and I probably never will be but I also know that there are a lot of community members that get a great deal of enjoyment out of Elites and Halo just isn’t the same for them without their inclusion.

I did actually like Reach style elites. Invasion is something that makes sense to me when it comes to having another playable race. I just want people to remember that this is just my opinion, anything I say is not a fact but just what I believe.

Gameplay over cannon is right, it’s the most important part and that’s why I don’t think having elites playable is too serious. In my eyes, if the whole game is designed and revolves around Spartans then that is better than having both and trying to be good to both. You said it yourself, quality over quantity.

5

Elites in multiplayer? What’s wrong with playing as them? i get bored as -Yoink- playing as a Spartan 24/7

6

> Elites in multiplayer? What’s wrong with playing as them? i get bored as Yoink! playing as a Spartan 24/7

Nothing is wrong with playing as them, it’s just what needs to be done for them to work correctly.

Elites are stronger, faster and taller than Spartans - that’s fact.

Now - do you shrink them to make them the same height as Spartans?
Do you make it so they walk the same speed as Spartans and don’t have stronger shields?
Do you use that shrunken model in the Campaign as well as the multiplayer, even if it could confuse the hell out of the player?

It’s a tricky situation.

Halo 3 tried it and made a mess of it - like being able to shoot through the Elite models neck because it had the hitbox of a Spartan.

7

> Elites in multiplayer? What’s wrong with playing as them? i get bored as Yoink! playing as a Spartan 24/7

There’s nothing wrong with it and this is a first person shooter, it’s not like your character is constantly in your view. Sure your arms are, but that’s about it.

8

> > Elites in multiplayer? What’s wrong with playing as them? i get bored as Yoink! playing as a Spartan 24/7
>
> There’s nothing wrong with it and this is a first person shooter, it’s not like your character is constantly in your view. Sure your arms are, but that’s about it.

That doesn’t mean we can’t play as another species does it? Even if all you can see is your arms (and legs) it is still nice to know that you are playing as something else than a Spartan 24/7. What about when you look at other players? You will still see what species they play as and how they like their armor.

There is choice and diversity when you have more than one class, species, or gender in a first person shooter.

Although you will usually find a lot of Spartan players in Halo you will still have the Elites running around.

:smiley:

9

How about we forget the War Games and just play as Elites fighting on Sanghelios in the Civil War, maybe no Spartan vs Elite but it would be balanced.
If that’s not possible how about PR0EL1T3 augmented Jackals, bandits recruited by ONI for the top secret experiment of augmenting them (perhaps using their children). This could fit the lore as I’m pretty sure Jackals and Humans lived together on some trading colonies. They could use Jackal type Covenant Human hybrid weapons etc.

I for one think this would be the best thing to Halo since playable Spartans.

10

Elites are in the War Games simulation, same for Flood.

Just because you couldn’t play as Elites doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

11

There is no reason why 343 shouldn’t bring them back. It’s clearly a very popular feature. I’m not that bothered myself. And it doesn’t break their pointless Wargames simulation cannon. It should probably stick to Spartan vs Elite gametypes though, and Elite only gametypes, so they don’t have to fudge elite sizes and posture.

12

They don’t even have to be simulated. Thel Vadam and his more… ELITE disciples (I’m sorry, I couldn’t help myself…) could end up on the Infinity by the end of Halo 5’s campaign, menaing that the two species would be training together.

I’m in favour of having canonically-proportioned Elites, though, so I’d prefer the Reach approach to 3’s. That is, unless Spartan-V’s turn out to be eight feet tall…

13

> There is no reason why 343 shouldn’t bring them back. It’s clearly a very popular feature. I’m not that bothered myself. And it doesn’t break their pointless Wargames simulation cannon. It should probably stick to Spartan vs Elite gametypes though, and Elite only gametypes, so they don’t have to fudge elite sizes and posture.

Well, when playable Elites do not fit into 343i’s concept then there is a reason to not bring them back, no matter if the individual wants to accept or follow said reason.

In addition to that, when making something like “playing as different species” a theme then I do think either make it a proper and signifcant part of your concept and design or just let it be.

When it is just about offering a different appearance beside Spartans then I assume you could somehow more or less successfully “squeeze” an Elite into a Spartan model.
But what does that add to the game? The illusion of playing as an Elite since the interesting characteristics of one do not exist or rather you get not to experience.
I would call that an irrelevant feature.

When you do it like Reach you do give Elites their unique characteristics but then you isolate them to a certain playlist or gametype, what I consider just halfhearted.

Therefore I think when implementing Elites in the MP then, like I said, by making “playing as different species” an actual and well-considered part of your concept.
But of course that would eventually result in some form of class system, likely a 3. species would get added to give it more substance, and with that in a new approach on/ direction of the MP gameplay and hence a change of your (former) concept but it would also result in a properly thought-out and stable feature.

But like I touched on at the beginning when “species classes” do not fit in your (343i) concept or when you do not want to add insignificant features to it which basically solely cater to the individual, then I think there are (valid) reasons to not include playable Elites.

14

While I don’t know why 343i decided to use the canonical value of War Games as an excuse for not having playable Elites, the one thing that I can say is that not only does the concept of Spartans training against Elites have zero contradictions with canon, but also that there’s Flood in MP.

Can one really use canon as an excuse for not having Elites in MP when they have Flood in MP?

15

Even as a Spartan player myself, I see no reason why Elites can’t be playable in multiplayer.

If they do come back, I would prefer that they are implemented like Halo 2 and 3, as equal to Spartans. I always loved that idea of being equal in abilities to Elites, and I never had a problem with any hitbox mishaps there may have been, as I could just as easily kill an Elite player as I could a Spartan player, with any weapon, and actually quite enjoyed the diversity of enemies to shoot at in MP.

I hope that they come back.

-SMARTAN 427