My Opinion on DMR vs BR vs CC vs LR

Games Other Halo
1

Ok. I’ve had enough of people spreading false information about the killtimes, so I’ll start with that. Then I will give you my opinion. These killtimes were extracted from theater mode, and I used exact measurments by the frames. These times are fact, and they are embedded into the game. I will not argue with anyone about them. They are FACT.

DMR- 1.46 seconds
BR- 1.73 seconds
Carbine- 1.63 seconds
LR- 1.4 seconds zoomed, 1.76 unzoomed

So as you can see, the DMR is the most consistently fast killing weapon. Even though the LR zoomed kills faster, it is very difficult to use compared to the DMR and the unzoomed LR sucks. I cannot confirm this, but people say the LR is not hitscan too. Shame.

The DMR kills nearly .3 seconds faster than the BR. This is a lot, because the killtimes are pretty fast. Also, the Carbine is significantly harder to use than the DMR, yet it kills much slower. Madness. In addition to this, the BR is extremely inaccurate at long ranges (because of spread and recoil) and requires 13 bullets to hit in order to kill. This puts it at a disadvantage to the DMR in almost all situations except for 1. extremely close range, where the BR’s ease of use is most prominent, and 2. when the DMR user is horrible. I believe that the BR should have a slightly faster killtime than the DMR (maybe just make the BR shoot faster and keep the DMR the same) so that it will win with perfect aim but lose at longer ranges, where recoil and spread prevent it from dominating.

The DMR needs to be fast enough to compete with the zoomed LR but not completely dominate. I also think the Carbine and unzoomed LR could be buffed slightly too. I think the DMR should have the slowest minimum killtime because it’s range, accuracy, and overall ease of use (compared to Carbine or LR), but it should only be by about a tenth (or two) of a second.

As I see it right now, here are where the weapons stand:

  1. Carbine- this weapon takes 8 shots to kill with an 18 bullet clip and a fast fire rate. This makes it very inconvenient to use in 1v1s and is only viable for cleaning up kills. It also has the slowest reload time. This all makes it the worst precision weapon.

  2. BR- it’s better than the Carbine, that’s for sure. For some reason, 343i decided to balance it out by ease of use and made its killtime almost the slowest out of ALL the primaries. Its 3-shot burst also makes it a good clean-up weapon, like the Carbine. It is limited in its use because its recoil and spread hinder it at long range. This is how it’s supposed to be, however it still can’t compete in medium ranges because its killtime is too hindering compared to the DMR.

  3. LR- its unzoomed form is almost identical to the BR, but it takes one more bullet to kill and therefore kills a frame slower. This makes its unzoomed form the worse primary. However, the zoomed form is the best (with the fastest killtime), which balances it out. The slow fire rate and lack of bleedthrough makes the zoomed form bad for cleaning up kills, however. The zoomed form is best for ripping shields for others to clean up or for 1v1 situations. It is interesting to note that if one shot is zoomed and the 4th (and final) shot is unzoomed, then the LR is still a 4sk. The LR is good, but it is not the best for team play and overall effectiveness. IMO it’s too situational.

  4. DMR- it is the most overall effective, accurate, and powerful gun out of them all. It has almost no bloom, has incredible accuracy, and has the second fastest killtime out of the precision weapons. Contrary to what some people think, it is very easy to use (possibly even easier than the Reach DMR), which basically renders the BR and Carbine useless, since, as I said, it has the second fastest killtime. It does not have bleedthrough, but it’s not a very big disadvantage with its ROF being so high. Because it already has so many advantages, in order to balance it, it needs to have a slightly slower killtime than the other precisions.

So basically, don’t nerf the DMR, but slightly buff the BR, Carbine, and unzoomed LR to kill faster than it by a tenth of a second. The DMR is so good, I have not even bought the BR or Carbine for my loadouts. I would like for them to be viable options (LightRifle too). It would make playing a lot more interesting.

Please do NOT start a flame war over the weapons, I was merely giving you facts and my honest opinion. You are completely free to disagree with me, but please be constructive in your disagreements.

2

Thank you for actually giving information about each weapon and statistics, instead of just saying, “ERMAHGERD DMR IS OVERPERWERED”. I hope more people see this. Good job :slight_smile:

3

You’re welcome. I was getting tired of those people too.

4

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Keeping this thread alive for some more replies…

5

I agree.

  1. Reduce rate of fire for DMR

  2. Make Carbine 1 less shot to kill

  3. Increase rate of fire for light rifle’s unscoped (I’m not sure about this, but why not, it needs to compete with the DMR’s ability to dominate in mid-range. A LR is a long range weapon only. If you buff its RoF, it becomes equal to the DMR. This allows for player choice.)

  4. Make maps smaller …

OR…Best way to fix everything is to take out the DMR completely. Fixes everything.

6

Nice searching dude. Would have to agree, DMR seems to have a good advantage over the other precisions. Except maybe Lightrifle just because I found it has mixed-uses although unzoomed is pretty weak like you said. I think it would be easier to fix though by just increasing the time between shots with the DMR. The other 3 precisions seem balanced against each other so that would require a one fix to the DMR rather than three.

Either way, great post.

7

> I agree.
>
> 1. Reduce rate of fire for DMR
>
> 2. Make Carbine 1 less shot to kill
>
> 3. Increase rate of fire for light rifle’s unscoped (I’m not sure about this, but why not, it needs to compete with the DMR’s ability to dominate in mid-range. A LR is a long range weapon only. If you buff its RoF, it becomes equal to the DMR. This allows for player choice.)
>
> 4. Make maps smaller …
>
>
> OR…Best way to fix everything is to take out the DMR completely. Fixes everything.

I agree with what you say, ESPECIALLY the last thing about removing the DMR. Sadly, removing the DMR is far from possible. It’s already programmed into the game. What they need to add is a playlist with preset loadouts and no DMR in the loadouts.

8

> Nice searching dude. Would have to agree, DMR seems to have a good advantage over the other precisions. Except maybe Lightrifle just because I found it has mixed-uses although unzoomed is pretty weak like you said. I think it would be easier to fix though by just increasing the time between shots with the DMR. The other 3 precisions seem balanced against each other so that would require a one fix to the DMR rather than three.
>
> Either way, great post.

The post ignores one important aspect. BR and unzoomed LR have a “slow-down” effect on hit Spartans. Try to run away when being hit with either and you get almost no movement while the bullets are hitting you. If you’re turned 90 degrees to the side of the shooter, the chances of you getting off ANY shots is pretty slim.

Which I think places the CC squarely on the bottom rung of “Why the hell would I use that?!!”

Though the kill times are super-valuable so thanks for that great info!!!

9

Either A) DMR should be up’ed to a 6sk (giving it longer kill time than most close range weapons) or B) the stopping power should be removed (as in you would not halt/slow targets when you shoot them). It’s clearly the best weapon, and if it was nerfed you would not see a whole bunch of LR’s take it’s place because LR isn’t far above all the other weapons. In fact it’s well balanced because of the difference between scope and no scope.

10

> > Nice searching dude. Would have to agree, DMR seems to have a good advantage over the other precisions. Except maybe Lightrifle just because I found it has mixed-uses although unzoomed is pretty weak like you said. I think it would be easier to fix though by just increasing the time between shots with the DMR. The other 3 precisions seem balanced against each other so that would require a one fix to the DMR rather than three.
> >
> > Either way, great post.
>
> The post ignores one important aspect. BR and unzoomed LR have a “slow-down” effect on hit Spartans. Try to run away when being hit with either and you get almost no movement while the bullets are hitting you. If you’re turned 90 degrees to the side of the shooter, the chances of you getting off ANY shots is pretty slim.
>
> Which I think places the CC squarely on the bottom rung of “Why the hell would I use that?!!”
>
> Though the kill times are super-valuable so thanks for that great info!!!

Ok, yeah I forgot that. I guess it balances out the killtime in a few select situations, but it’s not enough to make it better. Good find.

11

Good post OP I also don’t understand why people say the Light Rifle ain’t hit-scan probably do to the odd aim sight being some kind of rectangle where a DMR,Carbine and Battle Rifle are a simplified circle.

All I have been using is DMR because it simply dominates to much and is incredibly easy to use. I hope this stays up so people can see.

EDIT: Also adding that Halo 4 DMR is VERY easy to use compared to the Reach DMR

12

So everyone should just use the DMR then and quit complaining. Using a weapon because of nostalgic value is stupid in a competitive game.

13

> So everyone should just use the DMR then and quit complaining. Using a weapon because of nostalgic value is stupid in a competitive game.

Then why put 4 precision weapons in a game to start with? It’s clearly not because “I pick the purple weapon because purple is my favorite color”.

I really honestly wanted to use the Carbine in Halo 4 but it’s by far to inferior against other weapons.

14

Getting rid of the DMR is not the answer, buffing the other weapons is more effective. Besides it’s impossible to remove the DMR, and frankly a lot of people just like it as a weapon.

15

How I see it.

Light rifle is fine. It’s pretty much purely long range weapon. It has better zoom than the DMR.
I find it harder to get headshots with it than with DMR. Might be lower bullet magnetism but I think it IS a hitscan weapon. Notice an interesting thing. The primary fire is a 5sk but it takes 5 shots to take down shields. The 4th shot will leave very small amount of shields on, but being a 3 round burst weapon, the primary fire can shoot through shields. Why mention it?

The same thing could be applied for the BR except the weapon would be 4sk.
If you increase the spread of the 3round burst, you’ve got very powerful weapon that WILL beat DMR at short range and will get beaten by DMR at long range.
Given that it still takes 4 shots to take down shields, it will not overpower automatic weapons in CQB.

Carbine’s disadvantages have been mentioned all but one. Carbine has the lowest aim assist of all loadout precision rifles and I believe it also has the lowest bullet magnetism.
So given it has also the least damage per magazine, longest reload time, zoom as low as BR, and requires you to keep up with the firerate, it certainly is an adept for the “most effort required” gun in the game. I think that decreasing the amount of shots required for kill by 1 (one shot) and either decreasing the reload speed or adding 5 more bullets to the magazine, would be reasonable. What’s for sure is that in it’s current state, Carbine will be seen very little in the multiplayer.

That leaves the DMR untouched. DMR should not get nerfed for various reasons.
If you decrease the damage, it’ll become useless. If you decrease the firerate, it will have to be removed from SWAT and you’d have to re-balance the light rifle. If you add bloom, the world will end. In other words, IMHO only BR and Carbine need to be re-balanced.

16

Are you serious? I already avoid the DMR most times, and use the BR since the rate of fire is already too slow to me, and no good if caught in CQB…

17

> Are you serious? I already avoid the DMR most times, and use the BR since the rate of fire is already too slow to me, and no good if caught in CQB…

Yes, I’m serious. The only precision weapon with a higher ROF than the DMR is the Carbine. BR may have the illusion of being faster because of the burst fire and that the burst lasts 3 frames (one for each bullet).

18

I really like the idea of buffing the carbine a little bit and adding a few more shots to the mag. I have been using it a lot lately and I’m REALLY starting to like it, but only on certain maps. If I do a lot of strafing and jumping I can kill with it (the jet pack really helps to)…it’s a lot of work though.

19

> Carbine’s disadvantages have been mentioned all but one. Carbine has the lowest aim assist of all loadout precision rifles and I believe it also has the lowest bullet magnetism.

Wow. Well that sucks. The DMR has crazy bullet magnetism and aim assist. At medium ranges it’s like easy mode.

20

Nerfing the dmr is not the answer, we don’t want slower kill times. Instead, buff the other weapons. Make the BR kill with 12 bullets, making it a 4sk if every bullet lands. I have played with 4sk br 5sk dmr in mlg customs and it works out really well imo. Dmr still wins long range but the br comes out on top in close to mid range engagements like it was intended to.