My Dad explained to me why the graphics are.....

…not what we are wanting.

My Dad has been programming and writing code since the 1980s when it was essentially a new thing. When I was a kid he worked for WordPerfect and then Novell out of Utah. He has freelanced for the last several decades and literally knows everything there is about writing code and programming.

So, I brought this Halo Infinite thing up with him tonight when I took my family over to visit Grandma and Grandpa. I showed him the video and we got talking about it and told him the gripes some have with the game.

Essentially, what he said was it all goes into two factors. They are making an open-world game and not a hallway game. That code is extremely complex and in open-world games there is a tremendous amount of code that is running at all times taking away the power that would be focused on just what you are seeing and experiencing in a 1st person “hallway” shooter as he called them. In a 1st person shooter, the only code that is running is what is happening at that very moment. In an open world game, there is tons more code running at all times to keep the open-world intact (can’t remember all of the details about this part, but in general that was what he said).

So, if they are trying to hit a target of 4K 60fps there is only so much fidelity that they can put on the screen before the engine redlines and cannot hold those numbers. It will make the graphics engine chug. So, since we demanded 4K 60fps there is a limit of how much detail we are going to be able to see to keep that. I guess that makes sense now why FarCry 6 and AC Valhalla are 4K 30fps because the amount of detail you can display is much higher.

To me that makes sense. Thoughts.

Thoughts.

Yep, you’re dad is spot on.

The clean / simplified art style is;
a) a nostalgic nod to the Halos of old.
b) a level of detail that they can make work as large open world at 4K/60fps.
c) something that scales to the older Xbox systems.

And I’m feeling the love for where they are taking us.

My main concern was the bland textures - which were a lot better in the 4K video (as opposed to the low res stream) - and should look a lot better with proper lighting (as per Digital Foundry). Oh, and the pop in. The grass and the fog in the mountains particularly jarring.

I’ve no doubt they will fix a lot of these come November.

This is interesting op and a great post.
Personally I am excited to try an open world halo it has been a dream of mine since CE so I’m willing to sacrifice some visual fidelity…
That said the best update had me a little worried about how well fans asks are being heard or more likely understood fully.
I think releasing any halo without the guns that made it iconic is a grave misstep and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what fans wanted when we got hyped for a return to art style. There is no need for it it is change for changes sake rather than change for innovation.

I remain optimistic…
However I am ever more cautious in my optimism.

I felt like the update came across as lacking in confidence and almost panicked

I just want a game on par with reach or before.

Anyhow what are your feelings op?

It’s not the engine per se that will redline, but the machine it has to run on…the rest of OP’s post is extremely accurate, that’s exactly what is going on HOWEVER, there are open world games that look better than infinite. It should also be taken into consideration that this has to run properly on Xbone as well, strangling the possibilities even further.

Hell, as underwhelmed as I am, I’ll be extremely impressed if the Xbone version comes out looking anywhere near what was shown.

Depends on how they implemented the areas and triggers. Usually you don’t calculate the whole World. E.g. Monsterhunter this Games doesn’t Look really good on xbox but the whole map has been calculated in real time. Maybe Halo Infinite has been implemented like that with huge world events, fighting areas,…

And we should not forget 343 hasn’t much experience on this topic and they will improve the game as much as they can during the life cycle.

Actually we have seen some minutes of a game that’s probably more complex as we can imagine right now.

Imma be honest I can’t tell the difference between 60-30fps or 4K to something else unless it’s obvious. But if I have to sacrifice frames for more detail and for it to look more epic then by all means take all the frames you need.

Open-world games usually employ some visual tricks to make up for the graphical shortcomings that come with an open world game. Examples of this could be fog, different rendering solutions or clever loading areas. Halo Infinite’s open world seems to be fully exposed in unbaked lighting. In order to make that look good without visual tricks, you need extreme detail that Series X probably couldn’t even do.

> 2533274813946507;6:
> Imma be honest I can’t tell the difference between 60-30fps or 4K to something else unless it’s obvious. But if I have to sacrifice frames for more detail and for it to look more epic then by all means take all the frames you need.

Well you will love the leak that says multiplayer will be 120 fps.

> 2533274795284844;8:
> > 2533274813946507;6:
> > Imma be honest I can’t tell the difference between 60-30fps or 4K to something else unless it’s obvious. But if I have to sacrifice frames for more detail and for it to look more epic then by all means take all the frames you need.

And free to play model. So expect some kind of microtransactions with F2P.

> 2533274925473364;9:
> > 2533274795284844;8:
> > > 2533274813946507;6:
> > >

Nooooo this is the lamest -Yoink- ever. Why they gotta do this to halo haven’t we fans suffered enough?

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274813946507;10:
> > 2533274925473364;9:
> > > 2533274795284844;8:
> > > > 2533274813946507;6:
> > > > Imma be honest I can’t tell the difference between 60-30fps or 4K to something else unless it’s obvious. But if I have to sacrifice frames for more detail and for it to look more epic then by all means take all the frames you need.
> > >
> > > Well you will love the leak that says multiplayer will be 120 fps.
> >
> > And free to play model. So expect some kind of microtransactions with F2P.
>
> Nooooo this is the lamest -Yoink- ever. Why they gotta do this to halo haven’t we fans suffered enough?

As I stated in another thread. 343 are likely making this game as a Destiny model and accessible to babies. This so as to milk the extremely young audience of money by implementing sneaky microtransactions.

I don’t think this game has any future. Guaranteed that it will become another Fallout 76 or Anthem.

> 2533274925473364;11:
> > 2533274813946507;10:
> > > 2533274925473364;9:
> > > > 2533274795284844;8:
> > > > > 2533274813946507;6:
> > > > > Imma be honest I can’t tell the difference between 60-30fps or 4K to something else unless it’s obvious. But if I have to sacrifice frames for more detail and for it to look more epic then by all means take all the frames you need.
> > > >
> > > > Well you will love the leak that says multiplayer will be 120 fps.
> > >
> > > And free to play model. So expect some kind of microtransactions with F2P.
> >
> > Nooooo this is the lamest -Yoink- ever. Why they gotta do this to halo haven’t we fans suffered enough?
>
> As I stated in another thread. 343 are likely making this game as a Destiny model and accessible to babies. This so as to milk the extremely young audience of money by implementing sneaky microtransactions.
>
> I don’t think this game has any future. Guaranteed that it will become another Fallout 76 or Anthem.

Don’t forget the Battle Pass…

> 2724945845976881;1:
> …not what we are wanting.
>
> My Dad has been programming and writing code since the 1980s when it was essentially a new thing. When I was a kid he worked for WordPerfect and then Novell out of Utah. He has freelanced for the last several decades and literally knows everything there is about writing code and programming.
>
> So, I brought this Halo Infinite thing up with him tonight when I took my family over to visit Grandma and Grandpa. I showed him the video and we got talking about it and told him the gripes some have with the game.
>
> Essentially, what he said was it all goes into two factors. They are making an open-world game and not a hallway game. That code is extremely complex and in open-world games there is a tremendous amount of code that is running at all times taking away the power that would be focused on just what you are seeing and experiencing in a 1st person “hallway” shooter as he called them. In a 1st person shooter, the only code that is running is what is happening at that very moment. In an open world game, there is tons more code running at all times to keep the open-world intact (can’t remember all of the details about this part, but in general that was what he said).
>
> So, if they are trying to hit a target of 4K 60fps there is only so much fidelity that they can put on the screen before the engine redlines and cannot hold those numbers. It will make the graphics engine chug. So, since we demanded 4K 60fps there is a limit of how much detail we are going to be able to see to keep that. I guess that makes sense now why FarCry 6 and AC Valhalla are 4K 30fps because the amount of detail you can display is much higher.
>
> To me that makes sense. Thoughts.
>
> Thoughts.

He is right, and that has always been true. Grand Theft Auto games have historically had worse graphics than the current technology of that time. Ie Vice City and San
Andreas, yet both were amazing games.

> 2533274866906624;13:
> > 2724945845976881;1:
> > …not what we are wanting.
> >
> > My Dad has been programming and writing code since the 1980s when it was essentially a new thing. When I was a kid he worked for WordPerfect and then Novell out of Utah. He has freelanced for the last several decades and literally knows everything there is about writing code and programming.
> >
> > So, I brought this Halo Infinite thing up with him tonight when I took my family over to visit Grandma and Grandpa. I showed him the video and we got talking about it and told him the gripes some have with the game.
> >
> > Essentially, what he said was it all goes into two factors. They are making an open-world game and not a hallway game. That code is extremely complex and in open-world games there is a tremendous amount of code that is running at all times taking away the power that would be focused on just what you are seeing and experiencing in a 1st person “hallway” shooter as he called them. In a 1st person shooter, the only code that is running is what is happening at that very moment. In an open world game, there is tons more code running at all times to keep the open-world intact (can’t remember all of the details about this part, but in general that was what he said).
> >
> > So, if they are trying to hit a target of 4K 60fps there is only so much fidelity that they can put on the screen before the engine redlines and cannot hold those numbers. It will make the graphics engine chug. So, since we demanded 4K 60fps there is a limit of how much detail we are going to be able to see to keep that. I guess that makes sense now why FarCry 6 and AC Valhalla are 4K 30fps because the amount of detail you can display is much higher.
> >
> > To me that makes sense. Thoughts.
> >
> > Thoughts.
>
> He is right, and that has always been true. Grand Theft Auto games have historically had worse graphics than the current technology of that time. Ie Vice City and San
> Andreas, yet both were amazing games.

GTA 5 looks three times better then Halo: Infinite. And that game is many years old now.

> 2724945845976881;1:
> …not what we are wanting.
>
> My Dad has been programming and writing code since the 1980s when it was essentially a new thing. When I was a kid he worked for WordPerfect and then Novell out of Utah. He has freelanced for the last several decades and literally knows everything there is about writing code and programming.
>
> So, I brought this Halo Infinite thing up with him tonight when I took my family over to visit Grandma and Grandpa. I showed him the video and we got talking about it and told him the gripes some have with the game.
>
> Essentially, what he said was it all goes into two factors. They are making an open-world game and not a hallway game. That code is extremely complex and in open-world games there is a tremendous amount of code that is running at all times taking away the power that would be focused on just what you are seeing and experiencing in a 1st person “hallway” shooter as he called them. In a 1st person shooter, the only code that is running is what is happening at that very moment. In an open world game, there is tons more code running at all times to keep the open-world intact (can’t remember all of the details about this part, but in general that was what he said).
>
> So, if they are trying to hit a target of 4K 60fps there is only so much fidelity that they can put on the screen before the engine redlines and cannot hold those numbers. It will make the graphics engine chug. So, since we demanded 4K 60fps there is a limit of how much detail we are going to be able to see to keep that. I guess that makes sense now why FarCry 6 and AC Valhalla are 4K 30fps because the amount of detail you can display is much higher.
>
> To me that makes sense. Thoughts.
>
> Thoughts.

Came here mostly to say pass my thanks on to your Dad for working on WordPerfect. Used the hell out of that back in the day.

> 2533274925473364;14:
> > 2533274866906624;13:
> > > 2724945845976881;1:
> > > …not what we are wanting.
> > >
> > > My Dad has been programming and writing code since the 1980s when it was essentially a new thing. When I was a kid he worked for WordPerfect and then Novell out of Utah. He has freelanced for the last several decades and literally knows everything there is about writing code and programming.
> > >
> > > So, I brought this Halo Infinite thing up with him tonight when I took my family over to visit Grandma and Grandpa. I showed him the video and we got talking about it and told him the gripes some have with the game.
> > >
> > > Essentially, what he said was it all goes into two factors. They are making an open-world game and not a hallway game. That code is extremely complex and in open-world games there is a tremendous amount of code that is running at all times taking away the power that would be focused on just what you are seeing and experiencing in a 1st person “hallway” shooter as he called them. In a 1st person shooter, the only code that is running is what is happening at that very moment. In an open world game, there is tons more code running at all times to keep the open-world intact (can’t remember all of the details about this part, but in general that was what he said).
> > >
> > > So, if they are trying to hit a target of 4K 60fps there is only so much fidelity that they can put on the screen before the engine redlines and cannot hold those numbers. It will make the graphics engine chug. So, since we demanded 4K 60fps there is a limit of how much detail we are going to be able to see to keep that. I guess that makes sense now why FarCry 6 and AC Valhalla are 4K 30fps because the amount of detail you can display is much higher.
> > >
> > > To me that makes sense. Thoughts.
> > >
> > > Thoughts.
> >
> > He is right, and that has always been true. Grand Theft Auto games have historically had worse graphics than the current technology of that time. Ie Vice City and San
> > Andreas, yet both were amazing games.
>
> GTA 5 looks three times better then Halo: Infinite. And that game is many years old now.

It is also a finished product, while Infinite is not.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274866906624;16:
> > 2533274925473364;14:
> > > 2533274866906624;13:
> > > > 2724945845976881;1:
> > > > …not what we are wanting.
> > > >
> > > > My Dad has been programming and writing code since the 1980s when it was essentially a new thing. When I was a kid he worked for WordPerfect and then Novell out of Utah. He has freelanced for the last several decades and literally knows everything there is about writing code and programming.
> > > >
> > > > So, I brought this Halo Infinite thing up with him tonight when I took my family over to visit Grandma and Grandpa. I showed him the video and we got talking about it and told him the gripes some have with the game.
> > > >
> > > > Essentially, what he said was it all goes into two factors. They are making an open-world game and not a hallway game. That code is extremely complex and in open-world games there is a tremendous amount of code that is running at all times taking away the power that would be focused on just what you are seeing and experiencing in a 1st person “hallway” shooter as he called them. In a 1st person shooter, the only code that is running is what is happening at that very moment. In an open world game, there is tons more code running at all times to keep the open-world intact (can’t remember all of the details about this part, but in general that was what he said).
> > > >
> > > > So, if they are trying to hit a target of 4K 60fps there is only so much fidelity that they can put on the screen before the engine redlines and cannot hold those numbers. It will make the graphics engine chug. So, since we demanded 4K 60fps there is a limit of how much detail we are going to be able to see to keep that. I guess that makes sense now why FarCry 6 and AC Valhalla are 4K 30fps because the amount of detail you can display is much higher.
> > > >
> > > > To me that makes sense. Thoughts.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts.
> > >
> > > He is right, and that has always been true. Grand Theft Auto games have historically had worse graphics than the current technology of that time. Ie Vice City and San
> > > Andreas, yet both were amazing games.
> >
> > GTA 5 looks three times better then Halo: Infinite. And that game is many years old now.
>
> It is also a finished product, while Infinite is not.

And Halo: Infinite will likely launch in a poor state, incomplete with missing features. So…

To me they can make it a lot better by actually making it dirty and gritty. Here is what I mean. That first look is too clean. And it does not match the narrative. This ring has just been taken over. But it does not even look like a battle happened there at all. Where are the bodies? Where is the damage to architecture? The demo just looks way to clean to suggest anything like that even happened. Also, not enough enemies populate the space. The art style of the enemies seems like a rather easy fix, but it’s the too clean look that does not match the narrative that bugs me. This looks as clean as the Tower in Destiny 2. As one who cares about the narrative I need it to look and feel like something bad happened here and it does not look that way.

> 2554720502907190;18:
> To me they can make it a lot better by actually making it dirty and gritty. Here is what I mean. That first look is too clean. And it does not match the narrative. This ring has just been taken over. But it does not even look like a battle happened there at all. Where are the bodies? Where is the damage to architecture? The demo just looks way to clean to suggest anything like that even happened. Also, not enough enemies populate the space. The art style of the enemies seems like a rather easy fix, but it’s the too clean look that does not match the narrative that bugs me. This looks as clean as the Tower in Destiny 2. As one who cares about the narrative I need it to look and feel like something bad happened here and it does not look that way.

This is just a Destiny with a Halo skin.

I imagine it doesn’t help that they were creating a engine to make this all work + trying to optimise it on differing Xbox Consoles & PC?