Multiplayer issues (desync/cheating/Guardians) Console vs PC players - video link

Oof. That’s a pretty serious error on 343s part.
It’s definitely to the advantage of KB&M to stay out of close-range fights, and even if they fix melee lunge, is still going to be a problem when playing against controller players’ Aim Assist at close range. One option I see to alleviate the issue (without nerfing much-needed aim assist) is to tone down the strafe acceleration to making tracking opponents a bit easier.

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That or increase the bullet magnetism on MnK.

I actually thought of that too, but I don’t know if the majority of M&K players would like that…
Either option removes some of the skill gap, which some players might not like either, but there has to be some sort of compromise because what we currently have…ain’t it.

Alright. Since I value a good discussion and since the difference between clients is something I care about, I’m going to break down each of these clips and precisely what I’m seeing, based on the in-game ping (displayed in the top right) and the actual events set forward. I’m reacting to these as I see them, with my own experiences and knowledge of networking (and what we’ve been told about Halo Infinite’s networking) behind my back.

I’ll provide an analysis of all 43 clips and my thoughts on them below.

Video 1: “Halo Infinite PC Player” (runtime: 15 seconds) (avg. ping: ~25ms)

Based on what I’ve just observed you attempted to melee this opponent in close range approximately six times, while operating on normal ping values between 24-30ms. I watched closely and noticed that out of the six melee attempts, only one was successful. The other five, which I observed closely, were mistimed punches. Every other punch was activated after the red reticle (the game mechanic that determines whether a melee locks on or not) had already passed, causing the punches to miss.

Moreover, as I watched, I didn’t notice any particularly strange behavior from the enemy player. Their movements were slow, and they didn’t move much at all, except to target you with their sentinel beam. The following description was provided for the clip:

“This guy was moving so fast nobody in the game could touch him. I had to try and guess where he would move just to melee him. He was also using phasing to avoid damage.”

I saw no evidence of anything that this description suggests. You having to guess where he was going in order to melee him is a natural part of the melee combat (as movement in Halo Infinite can be quite erratic), and from that, I can conclude that you were simply whiffing your punches. As for phasing, this is an intentional gameplay mechanic employed by 343 Industries as a band-aid fix for issues they were having with collision. The issue in question was one where standing on top of someone’s head would cause the physics engine to send them flying.

Video 2: “Halo Infinite Rocket Nerfed” (runtime: 6 seconds) (avg. ping: ~60ms)

This one can actually be explained, though I would like to ask when this clip was taken. As a matter of fact, in any response you might provide, I’m requesting that you detail when these clips were taken.

During most of Halo Infinite’s lifetime (up until very recently), the rocket would perform inconsistently like this all the time, regardless of the opponent. However, this was recently something that was fixed by increasing the volume of the explosion (and fixing some registration issues, presumably.)

That second rocket slipped right past the edge of the floor though. I have no idea how you pulled that shot off, but that second rocket went flying to the back wall.

No need to address the description, as I’ve already debunked it and it doesn’t share anything past the content of the clip itself.

It’s also worthy to note that your ping was nearly double that of the last clip, sitting near a consistent 60ms. This would definitely cause some level of desync between the client and server, but I can’t tell what effect it had.

Video 3: “Halo Infinite PC Hacker Strikes Again” (runtime: 8 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

Normal ping. Content of the video shows a player getting hit by a fusion coil that should otherwise have killed that player.

I won’t try to suggest that there are no cheaters in Halo Infinite, because there definitely are, but that seemed like desync to me. Noticing that the enemy’s shields were completely cracked and that they were flung backwards, I can’t attribute the nature of that clip to any sort of cheat I’ve ever seen. I’m chalking it up to desync unless proven otherwise.

Description was more accurate this time. No need to debunk it.

Video 4: “Halo Infinite PC Glitching” (runtime: 7 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

This is an interesting one. Let’s start with the description and work our way towards what I think might’ve happened, but this one is unusual.

“PC player phasing/teleporting whenever you get near them.”

Having reviewed the clip at half-speed, I can confidently say that this was some sort of client-server interaction fault. It wasn’t the player that teleported-- it was you. I doubt that this was anything that you caused, and I’m certain this was a game error more than anything. Though, again, it’s hard to determine how accurate any accused cause may be since you’ve failed to provide dates for when these clips were recorded.

In any case though, this doesn’t seem like cheating. As a matter of fact, it doesn’t look like the PC player (who may or may not actually be a PC player, as you’ve also failed to provide evidence for your claim of who’s who) was doing anything suspicious.

Though, it is interesting that this clip occurred with optimal latency. Halo Infinite is known to have issues with client-server interactions even at good latency, but still, interesting. I want to know more about this clip. How many times did this “teleportation” occur in that match, in the parts that weren’t recorded?

Video 5: “Halo Infinite PC Glitcher” (runtime: 6 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

I had to watch this one slowly, but at the very moment where your punch landed on the enemy, that enemy was already halfway through a turn.

This is nothing but exceptional timing on the enemy player’s part. Reminder that activation doesn’t necessarily mean a secured kill; the back still has to be fully turned towards you in order to pull off the back smack.

Not to mention, the audio cue for the grappleshot is pretty loud. Given how far the player had travelled down the hall and given that it took several seconds for you to close the distance, I imagine that he would’ve been able to at least react by turning.

TL:DR; the guy turned around too fast for the punch to land and register as a back smack, causing it to instead register as a normal punch. This was not an instance of a glitch or a cheat.

Video 6: “Halo Infinite PC Player Phasing” (runtime: 11 seconds)

We’ve already debunked this one. Phasing is a game mechanic, not a cheat. Moving on.

Video 7: “Halo Infinite PC player unstoppable” (runtime: 14 seconds) (avg. ping: Not Available)

The glaring omission of your ping leads me to wonder precisely what happened in your last swing attempt, the one where you died. Before that though, it was you scuffing your hammer placement and the guy slipping down before the second strike. On that last hit though, you only dealt minor damage while you yourself were killed.

What’s interesting to me is the lack of damage that the other player who attempted to kill him dealt. This could be evidence of someone using a cheat to increase the strength of their shields; this could also be a case of desync, as the Gravity Hammer is known for being wildly inconsistent, even at close range. More context is needed to draw a definitive answer on this one.

TL:DR; It’s possible he was cheating, but I have no way of being sure.

Video 8: “Halo Infinite PC player absorbs point-blank rocket” (runtime: 8 seconds) (avg. ping: ~60ms)

Noting the ping but also noting how some of Halo Infinite’s combat systems work, it’s possible that killing you during the launching phase of your rocket was enough to stop it from spawning. Taking a careful look at the visual effects played and your reticle, I noticed that while there was a small explosion at the end of the barrel, it immediately faded and there was no explosion after you died. Moreover, during the activation sequence, there was never a hitmarker on your reticle-- let alone a red reticle. It was only after you died that it appeared, leading me to believe that the game simply prevented the rocket from spawning after the server decided that the enemy sword wielder killed you before it had a chance.

This was an interesting one. I won’t call you out for believing this is cheating, because this is definitely one of the weirder quirks of Halo Infinite’s combat systems.

Video 9: “Halo Infinite PC Player Hacking” (runtime: 7 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30)

I’m actually speechless on this one. At first, I was led to believe that he simply dodged the shot by crouching, but after inspecting the clip closer (and after your comment helpfully pointed out the skewer round lodged in the enemy’s arm), I have no idea what to believe.

I can’t tell you if the arms of a Spartan are identified on the rig as a hitbox. If they are, there’s no way this guy wasn’t cheating. If they aren’t, that’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen. I’m leaving this one on the table.

Video 10: “Halo Infinite Hammer vs PC player” (runtime: 8 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

Based on what I saw, he somehow got far enough to your left side to avoid the hammer swing altogether, killing you with his energy sword during it. I’m chalking this one up to how indescribably bad the Gravity Hammer can be.

Also note that if you had actually hit the enemy player, you would’ve clashed with his swing.

Video 11: “Halo Infinite PC Player Frustration” (runtime: 9 seconds) (avg. ping: ~25ms)

This is you having no CQC competence. As for the backsmack, that was in fact weird, but otherwise this is you having no idea how the melee works. Red reticle = target lock, no red reticle = your melee is going to whiff.

Which it did. A lot.

Next.

Video 12: " Halo Infinite Unstoppable PC Player" (runtime: 9 seconds) (avg. ping: ~26ms)

The first rocket cracked his shields (as it was not a direct hit or close enough to his feet) and the second rocket completely missed. This is you being bad at the game, king. Next.

Video 13: “Halo Infinite PC player with impossible ninja” (runtime: 4 seconds) (avg. ping: ~31ms)

This one was a goofy clip. I can’t really tell how close the enemy player was to your back when they executed this kill thanks to the bright flashing shield crack, but this might be one of those “they saw something different on their screen and the server agrees” moments. Either that, or they got lucky. I’d put 50% confidence on either.

Video 14: “Halo Infinite PC Player with Upgraded Shields and Movement” (runtime: 5 seconds) (avg. ping: ~31ms)

You missed your hammer swing. That is, you missed your hammer swing using this version of the hammer. In Halo 5, that would’ve definitely been a kill.

Why? He wasn’t even on the ground before you initiated the swing. By the time your hammer came down, he came further to the left than you were anticipating, and thus avoided the attack-- enabling him to return with one of his own. No “upgraded shields and movement”, just him going in a direction that you weren’t expecting.

I’m confused at how frustrated you’re getting at how fast he’s moving. Having watched these clips at reduced speed, he was moving as fast as you were in every single case. Food for thought.

Video 15: “Halo Infinite PC Player with Super Armor” (runtime: 6 seconds) (avg. ping: ~40ms)

Yeah, that guy was probably cheating. Desync is bad, but two full sword swings with no impact? That’s too out of the blue to chalk up to network failures. 40ms isn’t even that bad, in terms of consistent ping.

Video 16: “Halo Infinite Nerfed Hammer vs. PC Players” (runtime: 3 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

He clashed your hammer swing; couldn’t you tell by the animation? After your hit collided, the sword user reeled back and so did you. I’m not sure why it still dealt damage to him, but that’s a game mechanic.

Video 17: “Halo Infinite Sword vs. PC Player” (runtime: 8 seconds) (avg. ping: ~41ms)

He got lucky with a repulsor blast. It causes an immediate shift in momentum, enough to prevent a sword swing from connecting. He didn’t “survive” a direct sword attack; he prevented it altogether.

Video 18: “Halo Infinite PC Player Strikes Again” (runtime: 9 seconds) (avg. ping: ~40ms)

No, I’m calling out the description of events you provided. The guy with the hammer missed his swing, the guy with the sword didn’t connect the first time and punched the wall the second time, and you missed every hydra round. It’s a direct-impact weapon, it doesn’t have big AOE like a rocket launcher does.

As for being “unable to touch” this enemy, your teammate seemed to get some good licks in with his battle rifle. How strange of you to conveniently overlook that detail.

Video 19: “Halo Infinite PC Player with Super Armor” (runtime: 7 seconds) (avg. ping: ~28ms)

I’m not sure why that rocket would kill you but not him. It’s possible he was cheating, but I have no idea how suicide rockets impact the effects of the explosion. It’s possible, that’s what I’ll say.

Video 20: “Halo Infinite Nerfed Hammer” (runtime: 5 seconds) (avg. ping: ~35ms)

Another example of how bad the physics are on the gravity hammer. This one wasn’t even your fault, it’s the fact that the new gravity hammer is awful.

Video 21: " Halo Infinite PC Player with Super Duper Armor" (runtime: 8 seconds) (avg. ping: ~25ms)

Yeah, that guy was probably cheating. You don’t have to convince me on that one. By all accounts, being hit with a plasma grenade with normal shields is always a guaranteed death for the victim.

Video 22: “Halo Infinite PC Hackers Strike Again” (runtime: 11 seconds) (avg. ping: ~31ms)

Nah, you whiffed the fusion coil. it collided with the wall instead of the target, and you missed too many needle shots to supercombine.

Video 23: “Halo Infinite PC Player with Up Armor” (runtime: 7 seconds) (avg. ping: ~29ms)

That was weird. I’m not sure if that was desync or an actual cheat, but given that he folded in half on the second swing? I want to say it was desync. Then again, I could be wrong about that.

Video 24: “Halo Infinite PC Player with Extra Armor Buff” (runtime: 7 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

The exact same thing as Video 23. Maybe it really is some sort of cheat, but maybe it’s desync. Again, I can’t tell. This player cheating is definitely on the table. It is a different person in both videos though, so do with that as you will. Could be a sign of either one.

Video 25: “Halo Infinite PC Player Survives Two Hammer Strikes” (runtime: 12 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

The first hammer swing was clean, but he got you with the skewer before the second one could apply damage, it seems. If anything, these videos are substantiating my theory that damage application always favors the winner of a fight, with the exception of grenades. This guy wasn’t cheating or anything.

Video 26: “Halo Infinite Cheat Killed by Guardians” (runtime: 16 seconds) (avg. ping: ~25ms)

This clip was actually kind of funny. I’m pretty sure that the grenade came from one of the two allies who appeared on the left-hand side of the screen, and the game awarded you the kill since you applied the most damage to the target.

Video 27: “Halo Infinite PC Player Phasing” (runtime: 7 seconds) (avg. ping: ~34ms)

Game mechanic. Not a cheat. Learn the game.

Video 28: “Halo Infinite Sword vs. PC Player with Hammer” (runtime: 5 seconds) (avg. ping: ~26ms)

The first strike was a clash, and the second one was you timing your swing too slowly. If he got the upper hand in terms of when he unleashed his attack, killing you would’ve been enough to prevent the sword strike from dealing damage to him.

Video 29: “Halo Infinite Sword vs. PC Player” (runtime: 6 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

Again, the thing we saw in Videos 23 and 24! Given the repeat nature of this incident, it could very well be a cheat. I won’t denounce that possiblity, and if I keep seeing it, I might consider it. Then again, it could also be too convenient to simply call it a cheat instead of a bug or desync, so I’ll keep watching out for these repeat instances.

Video 30: “Halo Infinite PC Player using Hammer Mod” (runtime: 28 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

I could smell the desync all over that clip. Yessir, you and that guy were in very different places on each other’s screens, there’s no doubt about it. I don’t know who the server must’ve been favoring, but it must have been him for those shots to land.

Video 31: “Halo Infinite PC Players Phasing and Extra Armor” (runtime: 15 seconds) (avg. ping: ~60ms)

You completely missed the first swing, you scuffed the second swing, and he got behind you and killed you proper with a Hydra. Sorry lad, you got finessed. He earned that t-bag. I don’t smell any mods or cheats here.

Video 32: “Halo Infinite PC Player with Super Hammer” (runtime: 4 seconds) (avg. ping: ~60ms (?))

It was a bit hard to read that ping, but otherwise, this is a normal clip where three bunched up people get their heads caved in by the gravity hammer-- an AOE weapon that is able to-- you guessed it-- kill three grouped up people at once in close range. Also, he wasn’t really that high up. The rooves of the towers on that map slope with the ramps.

Video 33: “Halo Infinite PC Player with Up Armor” (runtime: 8 seconds) (avg. ping: ~26ms)

You scuffed that entire encounter, and instead of blaming yourself for a poorly timed hammer swing, you go into the description and write how the enemy “survives a near perfect hammer swing” and kills you with a “rocket at point blank.”

You missed the hammer swing. The guy punished you for it by firing a rocket at your feet. Gameplay loop continues.

Video 34: “Halo Infinite Difference between Console and PC Opponents”

First two kills? Clean. Last guy? You hit two grenade launcher (I forgot its name) shots out of 6 and scuff a hammer swing. There is nothing else in that clip, especially none of the nonsense you put in the description where you state the following:

“First two kills were against Xbox players. Last opponent was a PC player. Look at the massive armor/shield difference along with weapon power.”

I’ll take this opportunity to highlight how you never prove whether or not a player is actually a PC player or not. Where’s your screenshots? Why isn’t there a segment of the video dedicated to showing this? What is your substantial evidence? A video of a random player isn’t enough, it’s you pointing your finger at who you suspect is a “PC Player” and calling them out for cheating, regardless of whether or not that’s true. It’s childish and unsubstantiated.

You have plenty of time to correct me on that assertion of your character thus far. If you can provide evidence that these people were in fact PC players, I’ll take it back.

Video 35: “Halo Infinite PC Player Elbow Kill” (runtime: 5 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

He backsmacked you after getting the drop. His positioning was indeed weird on your screen, but keep in mind that Halo Infinite’s netcode is awful. It’s more than likely he was behind you on his own screen.

Video 36: “Halo Infinite PC Player Running Around with a Skewer in Leg” (runtime: 10 seconds) (avg. ping: ~31ms)

I… I actually don’t know what to say. The timing of that skewer shot was awful, but that reaction with the repulsor was a little too quick. Maybe he was cheating. Maybe he got super lucky. He might actually have been cheating there, I don’t doubt that possiblity.

Video 37: “Halo Infinite Hammer Does Not Work Against PC Players” (runtime: 9 seconds) (avg. ping: ~27ms)

Bad hammer swing. He was too far away, and this weapon is too poorly scripted to be 100% reliable.

Video 38: “PC Player Phasing” (runtime: 11 seconds) (avg. ping: ~25ms)

Phasing through teammates and enemies is a game mechanic.

Video 39: “Halo Infinite Overshield Does Not Work Against PC Player” (runtime: 11 seconds) (avg. ping: ~31ms)

I’m starting to doubt your experience with Halo Infinite’s nuances. Overshields are not able to stop backsmacks from instantly killing you, that’s always been a thing in Halo Infinite.

Video 40: “Halo Infinite PC Player with Super Hammer” (runtime: 11 seconds) (avg. ping: ~28ms)

That was a weird clip. I have no idea how that guy killed you instantly from that far, especially with such a good connection to the server. Could very well be cheating, could be desync. Either one goes when evidence is nowhere to be found.

Video 41: “Halo Infinite PC Player Back Attack” (runtime: 11 seconds) (avg. ping: ~30ms)

Definitely desync on that one. Halo Infinite has chronic pains with CQC fighting, and given that collisions are off, it’s entirely possible that he was behind you on his screen when he punched. This is a typical Halo Infinite server L

Video 42: “Halo Infinite Kong vs. PC Player” (runtime: 5 seconds) (avg. ping: Not Available)

You killed yourself with a fusion coil before he could get a swing in on you. Weird that he didn’t take any damage, but that’s more or less what happened there.

Video 43: “Halo Infinite PC Advantage” (runtime: 1 minute, 37 seconds) (avg. ping: 0)

To explain those two tags above in the epic conclusion to this epic waste of time, this was a Theater clip showing a kill that an alleged PC Player got again Rook with a Shock Rifle. Because it’s a Theater clip, it’s a representation of what the Server considered the ultimate flow of events, causing the ping to reflect as “0”. With that out of the way, let’s break this down:

For 1 minute and 37 seconds, Rook wordlessly demonstrated the absurdity of a particular Shock Rifle kill against him. He showed where the PC Player (again, who may not actually be a PC Player) had started before performing the kill and paused the clip multiple times at the precise moment where it happened, seemingly to show off how the shot placement was inaccurate-- but still resulted in a kill.

The only way to explain this is to explain that the Shock Rifle isn’t like the S7 Sniper Rifle. Instead of needing dead-on accuracy, the Shock Rifle only needs to place a shot within a certain distance of the head in order to register an OHK to the head. That’s why it’s often a lot easier to get kills with; It shoots a bigger bullet with a larger accuracy cone, and since it’s a hitscan weapon, it depends entirely on where the reticle was at the time of the trigger pull.

Due to this nature of the weapon, and due to the relatively imprecise nature of Theater replays, I can confidently say that this clip represents nothing other than the ordinary functions of the weapon.

IN CONCLUSION

Out of 43 different videos, only 8 presented the possibility of the enemy player cheating, with 4 of those videos representing the exact same issue. By and large, this playlist does not offer any definitive evidence towards the claim that PC Players have a perpetual and consistent advantage over all console players.

From the two days I took to watch, inspect and react to these videos, I can conclude that these assertions are primarily based on bias against players who Rook believes to be “PC Players”, a term that seems to be synonymous with “suspected cheaters”. There is no substantiating evidence that confirms if the enemy players were ever PC players in the first place, and thus, I cannot consciously accept these videos as proof of anything.

Well, buffing the AA on mouse seems like a no brainer.

Majority of the complaints lodged at controller from mice users are about the aim assist. All they really want is to be able to compete with controller players; they’ll be more than happy to accept an aim assist buff.

Thanks for watching. I will look into the dsync issue examples and compare (for my own sanity).

Fair point. But I was try to swing at different times than I would normally because our team could not touch this guy. Sometimes if you guess ahead and swing before someone actually is in the room you get a hit. I’ve started trying to just use the radar rather than what’s on the screen as a way to melee PC players. I will concede that it could be dumb luck that it works or maybe related to “desync”.

Thanks for watching and commenting!

Maybe it’s bad luck but I do not have these issues with console players. I also do not have issues with all PC players. It’s just that everytime there is this nonsense going on, it’s a PC player.
I will take a longer look at the issue.

Adding aim assist would be, in my opinion, a step backwards for M&K though. It’s not the norm for any other ‘competitive’ shooter on the market.
I think slowing down the strafe would be the better option, but in all fairness, I would be ok with either option (for reference, I play mainly controller for Halo).

That is a very thorough analysis and I only made it partway down your list till I read your conclusion. If OP would have targeted his misplaced anger at desync (with admittedly a few skill issues), this post would be a bit more on the right track.

I think there’s an exception that can be made for Halo. Compared to a game like Counter-Strike, time to kill is much longer and requires more time tracking the opponent.

This typically isn’t an issue for a controller player. For a mouse player, tracking for longer periods is quite the task. Unless it’s a gamemode like SWAT, playing Infinite with MnK is difficult.

Damn, you really put the work in. I’m impressed.

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I completely agree with you, but I’m afraid adding AA for M&K will cast Halo in a negative light when compared to other shooters.

And to think of it, what is the average TTK in Fortnite? I’m nowhere near the expert there, but is there a huge disparity between M&K and controller accuracy?

That shouldn’t be the case. For the past 10 months, Infinite has been getting criticism for their lackluster MnK support. I’m sure this will be a welcome change.

I don’t play Fortnite.

Just so we’re all aware, I’m not trying to discredit rook

I just didn’t see anything :person_shrugging:

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That’s not entirely true, what you saw was most likely exactly what rook saw, but you attributed the cause of those things to different issues. And in either instance, whether it’s evidence of cheaters or evidence of other issues that 343 can address, some of these are really good clips.

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I personally have had no issues running it at 144hz.

I’ve never felt that I have lost aim assist.

A failed melee lunge happens on consoles as well. This isn’t something unique to PC.

My experience on the Series X is identical to when I play on the PC. I feel no difference in performance.

Of course they’re good clips, there were a lot of bugs/desync issues/potential instances of cheating in there. I’m saying “I didn’t see anything” as a horrendously worded reinforcement of the results of my findings, where I didn’t find evidence of the claim itself

I really ought to have said “There just wasn’t any evidence” tbh

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I envy you. I’ll go full games with no problems, then the very next game, feel like I’m playing with 1/3 of the AA I should be getting. Or certain engagements will have no AA at all. On console.

Yes, it CAN happen, but I’m willing to believe Valhalla that it happens way more often on PC

Maybe Apex is a better example. I’m seeing TTKs that are very close to Halo’s. I tried digging up some accuracy stats, but couldn’t find any yet. I’d be interested to compare the strafe acceleration vs accuracy of controller vs M&K there…