Remember that one Halo 2 mission where a Scarab goes around the city and you must hijack it and blow it up? Imagine this: There are 64 players in this game, the map is in New Mombasa. It’s Spartans vs. Elites. Spartans: Your primary objective is to to stop the Elite task force from entering the facility. Punch a hole into their attack, board the enemy Scarab and disable it, then arm a bomb onto the Scarab and detonate it. Elites: Defend the Scarab until it gets to the facility, then infiltrate the facility and retrieve the relic. Bring the relic to platform where phantoms will be waiting to pick you and the relic up. The scarab is driven by an AI elite around the city. This would kind of be like invasion because it is elite vs spartan and kind of like assault, just really huge epic and awesome. The elites can use some of the secondary turrets on the scarab but the can be destroyed by heavy human weapons. The main turret would be scripted to fire at some destructible environment blocking the Scarab’s way. The map would allow you to go on the ledges and in the buildings including the ones around and under the Scarab’s walkway along with the ground and roofs of buildings, and yes there will be water. This is something that I would personally play for hours on end in matchmaking, include a forge possibility for it too.
So… Invasion?
A super advanced invasion with one primary objective.
there’s missing a “no” option in your poll. i wouldn’t like this as a simple playlist. if 343i made something like this a high-priority, i’d rather have them build a spinoff around such large player counts.
Your poll consists of yes and another way of saying yes.
I’m not to sure about this. Mainly cause big doesn’t necessarily translate into better. Large player counts cause a whole bunch of chaos when it comes to balance. Also with such massive player counts for an objective gametype how is anybody supposed to work together. Also weapons in this game are suited to kill so many people at once so what happens in an engagement where 40 people are just blasting each other.
Halo has never been about a chaotic experience so I am going to say no to this, sorry.
I could only see something like this at a 8v8 or 10v10 max player plalylist.
the map would be a little over 20 times larger then forge world
Love your creativity, but I don’t see this working.
> the map would be a little over 20 times larger then forge world
The size of the map does not make it less chaotic and make it suitable for Halo style multiplayer. Here comes the problem with the Halo Sandbox.
- Very few weapons in the game are designed for long range combat. Essentially anyone with a sniper has a massive advantage over another. The game was designed to go up to max 8v8. Weapons like the AR are already deemed worthless since the maps are so huge in H4 and there are many long corridors and open fields.
How do you balance the close range combat in the buildings vs the extremely long range combat?
- The problem with map design comes into play here, because you can’t just take a map and stretch it out and hope it works. It has to play well. You can’t just have a huge open street which is wide and long that is overlooked by many buildings. You also can’t have every single point on the map have a 360 degree killing field since it a city overlooked by many tall buildings and bridges which could be the case.
If the map is that massive there has to be many ways to get from one side to another rather than being funneled into limited routes. If vehicles are the mode of transportation, that moves 32 players from A to B how are you going to balance the amount of weapons on the map that are needed to kill it.
- This just opens up so many variable that need to be balanced for it to work. Even with all their ducks in a row, I can’t see how this could work without being a chaotic experience.
You have a good idea in theory, but I can’t see this working in practice. It is going to turn halo into something else. I could see this being a game called the Battlefield: New Mombasa.
> Spartans: Your primary objective is to to stop the Elite task force from entering the facility.
Task force? You just said 64 players so I assume 32 players make up this task force and they are constantly re spawning as well…
Also 64 players… Halo Sandbox… maybe I should make a youtube video explaining, or copy and paste everything from previous threads, safes me time explaining this, again, for the I believe 6th year.
> Punch a hole into their attack, board the enemy Scarab and disable it, then arm a bomb onto the Scarab and detonate it.
And we can’t keep this 6v6, why?
If anything this objective will nearly never be reached or takes to long to reach to where the match time gets ridiculously long (and the reason you reach it is because enough people quitted). We could easily keep it old school invasion.
> Elites: Defend the Scarab until it gets to the facility, then infiltrate the facility and retrieve the relic. Bring the relic to platform where phantoms will be waiting to pick you and the relic up.
You never really specified the location of this platform, nor do we have any clue how long it takes for the scarab to get to the facility in the first place.
Also it is really easy to defend a scarab if 32 players keep chucking grenades at this single easy defendable objective, same for that one relic (and given you only need 2 grenades for every kill you can have your 30 buds respawning for endless grenade fun).
Also what do the spartans do after the scarab gets there?
And what does the Scarab do after it gets there? Just stand there being “welp any more work will get me in trouble with Union”.
> The scarab is driven by an AI elite around the city.
Again, why? Does that mean if the spartans kill the Elite driver, they win?
If anything it makes more sense to use the Halo 3 Scarabs where they would have to stand near the shield to disable it (lets pretend that brute force does not work and they “hack” the shield).
> This would kind of be like invasion because it is elite vs spartan and kind of like assault, just really huge epic and awesome.
You forgot utter chaos, lengthy and near impossible.
> The elites can use some of the secondary turrets on the scarab but the can be destroyed by heavy human weapons. The main turret would be scripted to fire at some destructible environment blocking the Scarab’s way.
That is still very resource exhausting.
> The map would allow you to go on the ledges and in the buildings including the ones around and under the Scarab’s walkway along with the ground and roofs of buildings, and yes there will be water. This is something that I would personally play for hours on end in matchmaking, include a forge possibility for it too.
Yes you would play this for hours on end in MM because accomplishing the objective for either side is near impossible, just think how ridiculous that Halo 2 level would be with 32 player co-op and 32 elites constantly respawning, it would be fun to watch for the first few hours because of the utter chaos that ensues but it would quickly get boring because it is just near impossible.
And as many requested before: where is the no option?
> Love your creativity, but I don’t see this working.
And we can’t keep this 6v6, why?
If anything this objective will nearly never be reached or takes to long to reach to where the match time gets ridiculously long (and the reason you reach it is because enough people quitted). We could easily keep it old school invasion.
Well there are two ways I’ve came up to stop this from becoming madness
-
elites and Spartans would all have eight squads of four players, each squad would have a name, example: delta squad, elite task force omega. Each could have their own mini objectives, example: shut down the generator, activate the AA guns to shoot down the phantom filled with reinforcements. There would still be two massive teams, just split into eight squads. You heads up display would indicate the emblem of you fellow squad mate’s emblem, similar to Halo 2. As for game chat, when you talk, your squad mates will always hear you, if you want to talk to the entire team of 32 people, press left or right on the d-pad similar to Halo 3, proximity voice will always be in effect to ad close quarter strategy inside the buildings.
-
Make 1/2-1/3 of the players AIs
Quote: Elites: Defend the Scarab until it gets to the facility, then infiltrate the facility and retrieve the relic. Bring the relic to platform where phantoms will be waiting to pick you and the relic up. quote
You never really specified the location of this platform, nor do we have any clue how long it takes for the scarab to get to the facility in the first place.
Also it is really easy to defend a scarab if 32 players keep chucking grenades at this single easy defendable objective, same for that one relic (and given you only need 2 grenades for every kill you can have your 30 buds respawning for endless grenade fun).
Also what do the spartans do after the scarab gets there?
And what does the Scarab do after it gets there? Just stand there being “welp any more work will get me in trouble with Union”.
One: the elites can choose to spawn in the scarab, or be dropped off by a phantoms, or numerous covenant slipstream teleporters located around the map that Spartans can disable temporarily for 30s at a time and then has a 2:00 min. reset timer
Two: the platform in just on the other side of the facility, basically it’s a big landing pad
Three: I would probably make it 5-7 min for the scarab to get there
Four: spartans main objective is to stop the elites from retrieving the relic at all costs, so they must either plant a bomb and blow it up, or take the relic to a pelican where the pelican will pick it up and take it away
As for defending the scarab, the Spartans would not only have the task of eliminating the scarab, but also the elite squads around the map. Snipers would have the ongoing stress of being assassinated, close quarter shotgun men would have to worry about stealth elites, ect.
Quote: The scarab is driven by an AI elite around the city.
Again, why? Does that mean if the spartans kill the Elite driver, they win?
If anything it makes more sense to use the Halo 3 Scarabs where they would have to stand near the shield to disable it (lets pretend that brute force does not work and they “hack” the shield).
If they kill the elite driver they don’t win, they just stop the scarab from moving and using it’s main gun.
Although I just had another idea off of you “hack” idea, although I would prefer it to be the halo 2 model, let’s say an AI is driving the scarab, and the spartan must “hack” the AI, I’m not gonna expand this idea to much ATM just because I’d like to to see what you’d like to do with it
The size of the map does not make it less chaotic and make it suitable for Halo style multiplayer. Here comes the problem with the Halo Sandbox.
- Very few weapons in the game are designed for long range combat. Essentially anyone with a sniper has a massive advantage over another. The game was designed to go up to max 8v8. Weapons like the AR are already deemed worthless since the maps are so huge in H4 and there are many long corridors and open fields.
How do you balance the close range combat in the buildings vs the extremely long range combat?
Most of the map would be away from the scarab’s walk path anyways, filled with buildings and other things to obstruct snipers, even in the scarab’s main walkway, there is plenty of cover. Ever played the end of halo 2’s mission metropolis? Also a lot of fighting would be inside the buildings, aka close range combat. On the ledges there was a ton of cover and weapons. Also the map, from a view from the sky would look like a very fat curvy line making plenty of 90 degree angles.
- The problem with map design comes into play here, because you can’t just take a map and stretch it out and hope it works. It has to play well. You can’t just have a huge open street which is wide and long that is overlooked by many buildings. You also can’t have every single point on the map have a 360 degree killing field since it a city overlooked by many tall buildings and bridges which could be the case.
If the map is that massive there has to be many ways to get from one side to another rather than being funneled into limited routes. If vehicles are the mode of transportation, that moves 32 players from A to B how are you going to balance the amount of weapons on the map that are needed to kill it.
Transportation could take on a similar way that halo wars took on the pelican, let’s say you are really far behind the scarab, just call in for a phantom and one will pick you up and bring you to a drop zone which you will select from a aerial view angle via the call in screen.
- This just opens up so many variable that need to be balanced for it to work. Even with all their ducks in a row, I can’t see how this could work without being a chaotic experience.
Read my responses to the other guy
You have a good idea in theory, but I can’t see this working in practice. It is going to turn halo into something else. I could see this being a game called the Battlefield: New Mombasa.
Halo has never only been about 4v4, I like the classic competitive 4v4 and 2v2 but btb needs an upgrade that has been well waited for by many of us.
click quote instead of copying and pasting my post it’s a lot easier.
> Most of the map would be away from the scarab’s walk path anyways, filled with buildings and other things to obstruct snipers, even in the scarab’s main walkway, there is plenty of cover. Ever played the end of halo 2’s mission metropolis? Also a lot of fighting would be inside the buildings, aka close range combat. On the ledges there was a ton of cover and weapons. Also the map, from a view from the sky would look like a very fat curvy line making plenty of 90 degree angles.
Okay, still does not answer my question of balance between long range and close range combat. If it is a building that overlooks many streets and you are on the street how are you going to shoot the guys shooting you from the building and vice versa. If one side can shoot you from a building with many windows, how do you make it fair from the side that is on the ground. That is what I meant between long range combat vs close range. You can’t have that much verticality because again the defensive side has a massive advantage. Cover suddenly doesn’t matter because there are so many vantage points overlooking streets and not many safe zones. Also if I remember Metropolis had a bunch of open streets with not much cover on the streetwhich is why you got a scorpion.
> Transportation could take on a similar way that halo wars took on the pelican, let’s say you are really far behind the scarab, just call in for a phantom and one will pick you up and bring you to a drop zone which you will select from a aerial view angle via the call in screen.
Again you have to take into account, enemy players camping drop points or being zoned in on with sniper rifles which was a problem in games like battlefield. Again this opens up so many balance burdens. You need enough paths out of a drop point so you wouldn’t get sniped immediately.
> Read my responses to the other guy
>
> Halo has never only been about 4v4, I like the classic competitive 4v4 and 2v2 but btb needs an upgrade that has been well waited for by many of us.
I never said it has been only about 4v4. Halo has never been a chaotic experience, BTB can upgrade to 10v10 maybe 12v12 which won’t affect the sandbox as much as 32v32.
> elites and Spartans would all have eight squads of four players, each squad would have a name, example: delta squad, elite task force omega. Each could have their own mini objectives, example: shut down the generator, activate the AA guns to shoot down the phantom filled with reinforcements.
We might as well search up different gametypes and play different game modes then.
> 2. Make 1/2-1/3 of the players AIs
How does this make things less chaotic, if not more.
This is a creative idea, but you are simply asking to much for game developers. They essentially have to balance a whole different game. Sorry I can’t see this happening, unless at a drastically smaller scale maybe 8v8 or 10v10.
> Remember that one Halo 2 mission where a Scarab goes around the city and you must hijack it and blow it up? Imagine this: There are 64 players in this game, the map is in New Mombasa. It’s Spartans vs. Elites. Spartans: Your primary objective is to to stop the Elite task force from entering the facility. Punch a hole into their attack, board the enemy Scarab and disable it, then arm a bomb onto the Scarab and detonate it. Elites: Defend the Scarab until it gets to the facility, then infiltrate the facility and retrieve the relic. Bring the relic to platform where phantoms will be waiting to pick you and the relic up. The scarab is driven by an AI elite around the city. This would kind of be like invasion because it is elite vs spartan and kind of like assault, just really huge epic and awesome. The elites can use some of the secondary turrets on the scarab but the can be destroyed by heavy human weapons. The main turret would be scripted to fire at some destructible environment blocking the Scarab’s way. The map would allow you to go on the ledges and in the buildings including the ones around and under the Scarab’s walkway along with the ground and roofs of buildings, and yes there will be water. This is something that I would personally play for hours on end in matchmaking, include a forge possibility for it too.
I think it should have more than 64 players. One of my ideas for Halo 5’s multiplayer was a game mode called Colossal Team Slayer (click here to see what it is.). I honestly think Halo needs a MP game mode that has space battles, huge numbers of players in the 100s, and ships that are both controlable (like banshees) but also so big that they act as maps of their own (players can walk around inside them).
I’d like Big Team Objective, where you can do things like KOTH, Territories, Invasion, Dominion, or Extraction. Just leave CTF to its own playlist, please!
> I think it should have more than 64 players. One of my ideas for Halo 5’s multiplayer was a game mode called Colossal Team Slayer (click here to see what it is.). I honestly think Halo needs a MP game mode that has space battles, huge numbers of players in the 100s, and ships that are both controlable (like banshees) but also so big that they act as maps of their own (players can walk around inside them).
Clearly the game was designed for this and not game modes of smaller scale. You can’t have mechanics for a game that essentially designed for 2v2-8v8 max and expect it to be used for a game that suddenly requires 100 players. 343 now has to design and balance a completely different game.
If you want massive space battles go play EVE online, for your chaotic infantry experience go play battlefield.
Bold idea, great creativity can’t see it working. Just because Halo releases new games does not mean Halo should turn into something else.
> Well there are two ways I’ve came up to stop this from becoming madness
>
> 1. elites and Spartans would all have eight squads of four players, each squad would have a name, example: delta squad, elite task force omega. Each could have their own mini objectives, example: shut down the generator, activate the AA guns to shoot down the phantom filled with reinforcements. There would still be two massive teams, just split into eight squads. You heads up display would indicate the emblem of you fellow squad mate’s emblem, similar to Halo 2. As for game chat, when you talk, your squad mates will always hear you, if you want to talk to the entire team of 32 people, press left or right on the d-pad similar to Halo 3, proximity voice will always be in effect to ad close quarter strategy inside the buildings.
To which I reply, why not make these “side” objectives seperate games?
It sounds incredibly dumb, all you’re doing is creating more network stress for what is essentially 8 games rather then just creating a seperate game where the useless information about delta team only goes to delta team instead of also needing to be sent to alpha team.
With 64 players you have to sent the information of 63 players to each player unlike Invasion where it was only 11 player information being sent to every player, do you see the problem with this?
Smaller can be better (11 to 1 instead of 63 to 1 where there are only 4v4 engagements).
> 2. Make 1/2-1/3 of the players AIs
So make it 6V6 with useless AI running around? I think there is another game you might like.
> One: the elites can choose to spawn in the scarab, or be dropped off by a phantoms, or numerous covenant slipstream teleporters located around the map that Spartans can disable temporarily for 30s at a time and then has a 2:00 min. reset timer
32 players spawning on a single scarab?
Also what happens if all the Slipstream teleporters are disabled?
Can’t the spartans just camp at the easy predictable slip stream teleporters?
Since when did what is now a terrorist faction of the Covenant that lacks scientific minds (they needed to kidnap Halsey, remember) get the ability to reverse engineer small slip space portals?
This all just sounds like more problems.
> Two: the platform in just on the other side of the facility, basically it’s a big landing pad
A nice big grenadeable landing pad…sounds fun…
> Four: spartans main objective is to stop the elites from retrieving the relic at all costs, so they must either plant a bomb and blow it up, or take the relic to a pelican where the pelican will pick it up and take it away
Where did this come from?
And plant a bomb in the place they need to defend? Do you even put thought into these ideas?
Also where will the Pelican be?
> As for defending the scarab, the Spartans would not only have the task of eliminating the scarab, but also the elite squads around the map. Snipers would have the ongoing stress of being assassinated, close quarter shotgun men would have to worry about stealth elites, ect.
I’m sorry but I feel like I missed a part of the conversation here, stealth elites, snipers? Where did this suddenly come from, you never specified loadouts and not only that but it seems pretty idiotic to give infinite shotgun or sniper ammo to 32 players to defend a single objective (not only that but the sword and hammer are no match for the Shotgun).
> If they kill the elite driver <mark>they don’t win</mark>, they just <mark>stop the scarab from moving</mark> and using it’s main gun.
uhhh… How will this progress then? I thought the scarab was needed to get in the facility?
> Although I just had another idea off of you “hack” idea, although I would prefer it to be the halo 2 model, let’s say an AI is driving the scarab, and the spartan must “hack” the AI, I’m not gonna expand this idea to much ATM just because I’d like to to see what you’d like to do with it.
The Covenant do not use advanced AI, it is why the Scarab in Halo 3 is controlled by Lekgolo worms, the lore specifically dictates that the Covenant hates the idea of AIs because Mendiciant Bias was an AI and betrayed the Forerunner for the Flood, it would just not fit with the lore.