I know the title is a hot take, but hear me out. This thread is not a “the motion tracker sucks and the combat sensor is awesome” thread. This topic solely serves to argue against a common stance: that the motion tracker is good for newcomers and casual players.
I’ve been playing Halo for 20 years now, and I can say with confidence that the motion tracker is not good for newcomers and casual players. The information the motion tracker awards to a newcomer is far different from what’s awarded to a veteran player.
Veterans have years of experience—more situational awareness, more map knowledge, more technical skill, etc. For a veteran, the motion tracker allows them to instantaneously detect and snap to the exact dimensional position of an enemy. The result is the ability to steamroll less skilled and experienced players. I’d know this because I do it and have been doing it for years.
Compare this to a casual player or newcomer. A player who isn’t nearly as familiar with the geometry of the map, or whose aim isn’t as proficient, or who hasn’t built up situational awareness. For newcomers, the motion tracker only awards a general direction of the enemy.
Simply put, the motion tracker as a piece of information creates a fairly wide skill gap between new/casual and veteran players. The recently introduced combat sensor mitigates this skill gap by reducing the amount of information available to highly experienced and skilled players. It allows new and casual players to more freely move about the map, with more of a chance to flank or use stealth tactics against an otherwise highly oppressive and formidable team.
I hope some can see and understand my perspective here. Whether or not the motion tracker or combat sensor is better for gameplay overall? I don’t know for sure. But I believe the motion tracker isn’t helping newcomers and casual players as much as it might seem to be.
> 2533274870929230;1:
> I know the title is a hot take, but hear me out. This thread is not a “the motion tracker sucks and the combat sensor is awesome” thread. This topic solely serves to argue against a common stance: *that the motion tracker is good for newcomers and casual players.*I’ve been playing Halo for 20 years now, and I can say with confidence that the motion tracker is not good for newcomers and casual players. The information the motion tracker awards to a newcomer is far different from what’s awarded to a veteran player.
>
> Veterans have years of experience—more situational awareness, more map knowledge, more technical skill, etc. For a veteran, the motion tracker allows them to instantaneously detect and snap to the exact dimensional position of an enemy. The result is the ability to steamroll less skilled and experienced players. I’d know this because I do it and have been doing it for years.
> Compare this to a casual player or newcomer. A player who isn’t nearly as familiar with the geometry of the map, or whose aim isn’t as proficient, or who hasn’t built up situational awareness. **For newcomers, the motion tracker only awards a general direction of the enemy.**Simply put, the motion tracker as a piece of information creates a fairly wide skill gap between new/casual and veteran players. The recently introduced combat sensor mitigates this skill gap by reducing the amount of information available to highly experienced and skilled players. It allows new and casual players to more freely move about the map, with more of a chance to flank or use stealth tactics against an otherwise highly oppressive and formidable team.
>
> I hope some can see and understand my perspective here. Whether or not the motion tracker or combat sensor is better for gameplay overall? I don’t know for sure. But I believe the motion tracker isn’t helping newcomers and casual players as much as it might seem to be.
I won’t speak for new players but for casual existing players, I play with some of them still. Motion tracker either needs to be full of information or completely gone. Nothing in the middle. My casual friends get confused with halo 5 and infinite’s original tracker.
I would say you are also missing a key point even though you did touch on it in a different way - veteran players are more likely to know the map geometery - meaning they likely know where you are in relation to where they just were and where their teammates are - all without motion tracker. My casual friends have absolutely no feel for this, even after playing 5000 halo 3 games. With or without trackers, veterans would always have the advantage compared to new or casual players.
> 2533274833311664;2:
> > 2533274870929230;1:
> > I know the title is a hot take, but hear me out. This thread is not a “the motion tracker sucks and the combat sensor is awesome” thread. This topic solely serves to argue against a common stance: *that the motion tracker is good for newcomers and casual players.*I’ve been playing Halo for 20 years now, and I can say with confidence that the motion tracker is not good for newcomers and casual players. The information the motion tracker awards to a newcomer is far different from what’s awarded to a veteran player.
> > Veterans have years of experience—more situational awareness, more map knowledge, more technical skill, etc. For a veteran, the motion tracker allows them to instantaneously detect and snap to the exact dimensional position of an enemy. The result is the ability to steamroll less skilled and experienced players. I’d know this because I do it and have been doing it for years.
> > Compare this to a casual player or newcomer. A player who isn’t nearly as familiar with the geometry of the map, or whose aim isn’t as proficient, or who hasn’t built up situational awareness. **For newcomers, the motion tracker only awards a general direction of the enemy.**Simply put, the motion tracker as a piece of information creates a fairly wide skill gap between new/casual and veteran players. The recently introduced combat sensor mitigates this skill gap by reducing the amount of information available to highly experienced and skilled players. It allows new and casual players to more freely move about the map, with more of a chance to flank or use stealth tactics against an otherwise highly oppressive and formidable team.
> > I hope some can see and understand my perspective here. Whether or not the motion tracker or combat sensor is better for gameplay overall? I don’t know for sure. But I believe the motion tracker isn’t helping newcomers and casual players as much as it might seem to be.
>
> I won’t speak for new players but for casual existing players, I play with some of them still. Motion tracker either needs to be full of information or completely gone. Nothing in the middle. My casual friends get confused with halo 5 and infinite’s original tracker.
>
> I would say you are also missing a key point even though you did touch on it in a different way - veteran players are more likely to know the map geometery - meaning they likely know where you are in relation to where they just were and where their teammates are - all without motion tracker. My casual friends have absolutely no feel for this, even after playing 5000 halo 3 games. With or without trackers, veterans would always have the advantage compared to new or casual players.
Agree with you. I agree especially with this: "Motion tracker either needs to be full of information or completely gone. Nothing in the middle. My casual friends get confused with halo 5 and infinite’s original tracker." "My casual friends have absolutely no feel for this, even after playing 5000 halo 3 games. With or without trackers, veterans would always have the advantage compared to new or casual players." I will ask my Friend what he think about the Radar (he is really Casual in terms of gaming). I expect a simular answer.
> 2533274833311664;2:
> > 2533274870929230;1:
> > I know the title is a hot take, but hear me out. This thread is not a “the motion tracker sucks and the combat sensor is awesome” thread. This topic solely serves to argue against a common stance: *that the motion tracker is good for newcomers and casual players.*I’ve been playing Halo for 20 years now, and I can say with confidence that the motion tracker is not good for newcomers and casual players. The information the motion tracker awards to a newcomer is far different from what’s awarded to a veteran player.
> >
> > Veterans have years of experience—more situational awareness, more map knowledge, more technical skill, etc. For a veteran, the motion tracker allows them to instantaneously detect and snap to the exact dimensional position of an enemy. The result is the ability to steamroll less skilled and experienced players. I’d know this because I do it and have been doing it for years.
> > Compare this to a casual player or newcomer. A player who isn’t nearly as familiar with the geometry of the map, or whose aim isn’t as proficient, or who hasn’t built up situational awareness. **For newcomers, the motion tracker only awards a general direction of the enemy.**Simply put, the motion tracker as a piece of information creates a fairly wide skill gap between new/casual and veteran players. The recently introduced combat sensor mitigates this skill gap by reducing the amount of information available to highly experienced and skilled players. It allows new and casual players to more freely move about the map, with more of a chance to flank or use stealth tactics against an otherwise highly oppressive and formidable team.
> >
> > I hope some can see and understand my perspective here. Whether or not the motion tracker or combat sensor is better for gameplay overall? I don’t know for sure. But I believe the motion tracker isn’t helping newcomers and casual players as much as it might seem to be.
>
> I won’t speak for new players but for casual existing players, I play with some of them still. Motion tracker either needs to be full of information or completely gone. Nothing in the middle. My casual friends get confused with halo 5 and infinite’s original tracker.
>
> I would say you are also missing a key point even though you did touch on it in a different way - veteran players are more likely to know the map geometery - meaning they likely know where you are in relation to where they just were and where their teammates are - all without motion tracker. My casual friends have absolutely no feel for this, even after playing 5000 halo 3 games. With or without trackers, veterans would always have the advantage compared to new or casual players.
This is a good point I hadn’t considered. I’m also understanding with regard to the all or nothing perspective for the motion tracker. Perhaps it’s fair to say the motion tracker is neither strictly beneficial nor harmful to casuals and newcomers, but somewhere in the middle? That gray area, I suppose, is why I wanted to give the combat sensor more testing time.
> 2535443305883996;5:
> I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
>
> If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
>
> Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
>
> Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
Agree, skill gap is important for a game holding a players hand is boring and helps no one but making them feel like they’re Onyx players only to get slapped down.
> 2535443305883996;5:
> I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
>
> If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
>
> Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
>
> Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
I’m sorry, did I sound obsessed with making the game easier? This topic was meant only as an argument against the stance that the motion tracker is good for casuals. Your post is either inferring something I’ve not intended or just irrelevant.
> 2533275030042825;6:
> > 2535443305883996;5:
> > I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
> >
> > If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
> >
> > Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
> >
> > Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
>
> Agree, skill gap is important for a game holding a players hand is boring and helps no one but making them feel like they’re Onyx players only to get slapped down.
People also argue it slows the game down…ok not really?
You want a frantic super fast constantly moving game go play something else. Not every title needs to be like that. Some of the best games I’ve played of halo have been slower paced because people die infrequently because they hold ground so well and it’s great
> 2533274870929230;7:
> > 2535443305883996;5:
> > I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
> >
> > If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
> >
> > Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
> >
> > Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
>
> I’m sorry, did I sound obsessed with making the game easier? This topic was meant only as an argument against the stance that the motion tracker is good for casuals. Your post is either inferring something I’ve not intended or just irrelevant.
Sorry I didn’t mean directly to you, it’s just I’ve seen this or similar posts like 20 times from people, I meant an obsession from part of the fanbase. Not you individually.
> 2535443305883996;9:
> > 2533274870929230;7:
> > > 2535443305883996;5:
> > > I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
> > >
> > > If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
> > >
> > > Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
> > >
> > > Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
> >
> > I’m sorry, did I sound obsessed with making the game easier? This topic was meant only as an argument against the stance that the motion tracker is good for casuals. Your post is either inferring something I’ve not intended or just irrelevant.
>
> Sorry I didn’t mean directly to you, it’s just I’ve seen this or similar posts like 20 times from people, I meant an obsession from part of the fanbase. Not you individually.
Understood, no worries. Just wanted to be clear that I’m not taking any stance with regard to making the game easier or more difficult for casuals. I’ve seen the argument that motion tracker is good for casuals thrown around so frequently that I wanted to refute it since, in my experience, it isn’t necessarily true.
> 2535443305883996;8:
> > 2533275030042825;6:
> > > 2535443305883996;5:
> > > I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
> > >
> > > If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
> > >
> > > Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
> > >
> > > Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
> >
> > Agree, skill gap is important for a game holding a players hand is boring and helps no one but making them feel like they’re Onyx players only to get slapped down.
>
> People also argue it slows the game down…ok?
>
> You want a frantic super fats constantly moving game play something else. Not every title needs to be like that. Some of the best games I’ve played of halo have been slower paced because people die infrequently because they hold ground so we’ll and it’s great
What’s the highest rank you have achieved? Your account doesn’t reflect any game play at all. Reason I ask, I’ve played in all ranks across my 20 years playing Halo, started in the lowest of ranks in Halo 3 from 0 to 45, plat to Onyx in Halo 5, never have I seen a game slowed down or sped up due to radar, the only things slowing a game down is realising the people across the map will hit you without missing and perfecting you in close quarters, so you take the game slowly, rushing in will throw the game.
Radar doesn’t didact anything other than situational awareness, which is important very, very important however also broken if to cater to new players.
In relation to your super fats constantly moving game play, you seen COD pro games? they aren’t super fast, those games can be taken quite slowly.
> 2533275030042825;11:
> > 2535443305883996;8:
> > > 2533275030042825;6:
> > > > 2535443305883996;5:
> > > > I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
> > > >
> > > > If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
> > > >
> > > > Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
> > > >
> > > > Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
> > >
> > > Agree, skill gap is important for a game holding a players hand is boring and helps no one but making them feel like they’re Onyx players only to get slapped down.
> >
> > People also argue it slows the game down…ok?
> >
> > You want a frantic super fats constantly moving game play something else. Not every title needs to be like that. Some of the best games I’ve played of halo have been slower paced because people die infrequently because they hold ground so we’ll and it’s great
>
> What’s the highest rank you have achieved? Your account doesn’t reflect any game play at all. Reason I ask, I’ve played in all ranks across my 20 years playing Halo, started in the lowest of ranks in Halo 3 from 0 to 45, plat to Onyx in Halo 5, never have I seen a game slowed down or sped up due to radar, the only things slowing a game down is realising the people across the map will hit you without missing and perfecting you in close quarters, so you take the game slowly, rushing in will throw the game.
> Radar doesn’t didact anything other than situational awareness, which is important very, very important however also broken if to cater to new players.
> In relation to your super fats constantly moving game play, you seen COD pro games? they aren’t super fast, those games can be taken quite slowly.
Yeah unfortunately my SR seems shafted since I linked accounts. Without going into detail I…
Got high up in 3 but i predominantly played squads, btb and FFA.
Reach was much the same but obviously no squads.
4-5 didn’t play much because they were trash imo.
Also apologies for typos in previous comments I’m at work and rushing. I meant “fast” not fats"
Also I’m not saying it slows down gameplay, I’m saying lots of people are. And also saying even if it did slow it down, who cares. It doesn’t have to be frantic all the time.
> 2535443305883996;12:
> > 2533275030042825;11:
> > > 2535443305883996;8:
> > > > 2533275030042825;6:
> > > > > 2535443305883996;5:
> > > > > I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
> > > > >
> > > > > If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
> > > > >
> > > > > Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
> > > >
> > > > Agree, skill gap is important for a game holding a players hand is boring and helps no one but making them feel like they’re Onyx players only to get slapped down.
> > >
> > > People also argue it slows the game down…ok?
> > >
> > > You want a frantic super fats constantly moving game play something else. Not every title needs to be like that. Some of the best games I’ve played of halo have been slower paced because people die infrequently because they hold ground so we’ll and it’s great
> >
> > What’s the highest rank you have achieved? Your account doesn’t reflect any game play at all. Reason I ask, I’ve played in all ranks across my 20 years playing Halo, started in the lowest of ranks in Halo 3 from 0 to 45, plat to Onyx in Halo 5, never have I seen a game slowed down or sped up due to radar, the only things slowing a game down is realising the people across the map will hit you without missing and perfecting you in close quarters, so you take the game slowly, rushing in will throw the game.
> > Radar doesn’t didact anything other than situational awareness, which is important very, very important however also broken if to cater to new players.
> > In relation to your super fats constantly moving game play, you seen COD pro games? they aren’t super fast, those games can be taken quite slowly.
>
> Yeah unfortunately my SR seems shafted since I linked accounts. Without going into detail I…
>
> Got high up in 3 but i predominantly played squads, btb and FFA.
>
> Reach was much the same but obviously no squads.
>
> 4-5 didn’t play much because they were trash imo.
>
> Also apologies for typos in previous comments I’m at work and rushing. I meant “fast” not fats"
I like those game modes, I thought you meant fast, but it’s best not to assume until corrected, I have heard fats being used before.
> 2533275030042825;11:
> > 2535443305883996;8:
> > > 2533275030042825;6:
> > > > 2535443305883996;5:
> > > > I don’t understand this obsession with making it easier for new players.
> > > >
> > > > If they’re rubbish, persevere and learn maybe?
> > > >
> > > > Closing the skill gap so any old newbie has just as much chance at killing you is stupid. Radar is fine, has been for decades.
> > > >
> > > > Just learn to use it properly, it’s really not difficult.
> > >
> > > Agree, skill gap is important for a game holding a players hand is boring and helps no one but making them feel like they’re Onyx players only to get slapped down.
> >
> > People also argue it slows the game down…ok?
> >
> > You want a frantic super fats constantly moving game play something else. Not every title needs to be like that. Some of the best games I’ve played of halo have been slower paced because people die infrequently because they hold ground so we’ll and it’s great
>
> What’s the highest rank you have achieved? Your account doesn’t reflect any game play at all. Reason I ask, I’ve played in all ranks across my 20 years playing Halo, started in the lowest of ranks in Halo 3 from 0 to 45, plat to Onyx in Halo 5, never have I seen a game slowed down or sped up due to radar, the only things slowing a game down is realising the people across the map will hit you without missing and perfecting you in close quarters, so you take the game slowly, rushing in will throw the game.
> Radar doesn’t didact anything other than situational awareness, which is important very, very important however also broken if to cater to new players.
> In relation to your super fats constantly moving game play, you seen COD pro games? they aren’t super fast, those games can be taken quite slowly.
Motion tracker doesn’t change match pace, true, but it does change map movement and flow. A competent team against a lesser team will dominate the map due to motion tracker providing enemy positions. Two competent teams with motion tracker results in movement stagnation and often a “red dot” tug-of-war for certain positions on the map. I personally don’t find either situation fun and have far preferred matches without motion tracker as movement feels freer because your position isn’t as blatantly broadcast. But that’s all beside the point.
Motion tracker does benefit new players the most though, especially when playing other new players which is what they should be doing most of the time because of sbmm. They can get a bunch of information when the enemy is approaching and gives them time to react to it. It’s a staple mechanic learned from campaign that can help them get their bearings in multiplayer.
Most veteran players have a good feel for where everyone is on the map at any given time so the need for the radar is just confirmation of something they already know or are expecting. It makes it practically impossible for less experienced players to get one over on a veteran player though as a head on approach will almost always fail and they can’t even sneak up on them.
I liked the changes to the motion tracker for Infinite as from a competitive players perspective it balances sprint nicely. If they revert to the old way which sounds like they are from the community update, then there is little reason to not sprint everywhere. I’d say to balance it now maybe have sprint increase footsteps noise by 20% or something. Can hear them from further away and louder than a walking enemy.
Old style radar is good for casual players so it makes sense to keep using it for their sake. It’s not like it will be used in most competitive playlists anyway.
> 2535444395359788;15:
> Motion trackers benefit new players the most tho?
>
> If they had a game mode with no motion tracker new players would get absolutely rolled because of Veteran’s intimate map knowledge.
In my experience, disabling motion tracker has resulted in newer or less skilled players having more freedom of movement and longer average time between deaths. Your argument is reasonable but I think the interplay between map knowledge and utility of motion tracker is complicated.
> 2533274801036271;16:
> Motion tracker does benefit new players the most though, especially when playing other new players which is what they should be doing most of the time because of sbmm. They can get a bunch of information when the enemy is approaching and gives them time to react to it. It’s a staple mechanic learned from campaign that can help them get their bearings in multiplayer.
>
> Most veteran players have a good feel for where everyone is on the map at any given time so the need for the radar is just confirmation of something they already know or are expecting. It makes it practically impossible for less experienced players to get one over on a veteran player though as a head on approach will almost always fail and they can’t even sneak up on them.
>
> I liked the changes to the motion tracker for Infinite as from a competitive players perspective it balances sprint nicely. If they revert to the old way which sounds like they are from the community update, then there is little reason to not sprint everywhere. I’d say to balance it now maybe have sprint increase footsteps noise by 20% or something. Can hear them from further away and louder than a walking enemy.
>
> Old style radar is good for casual players so it makes sense to keep using it for their sake. It’s not like it will be used in most competitive playlists anyway.
I feel like the motion tracker is actually the reason this is true?