More like the End, than the "Endless"

Once I heard the rumors last year that Halo could be switching to the Unreal Engine*, I knew that the future of Halo Infinite was tenuous at best.

It’s become more like a dead end for this game. Or as Reforge Gaming would say in his “Reboot With Unreal Engine” YouTube video, “… isn’t it time to put a fork in it and say it’s done, just k#$$ it, take Halo Infinite behind the woodshed and have a look at the pretty flowers…” (16:40)

*“Halo developer “all but starting from scratch” with new Unreal Engine game in development” - GameRadar via MSN

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The more I play this (Halo Infinite specifically), the more “new to Halo” Halo players I meet, the more I realize it’s too late. Halo as I knew it, CE through Halo 5, is for all intents and purposes dead. The games and player base moving forward aren’t going to be worth my time.

It was the rebranding of “Team SWAT” to “Tactical Slayer” and the impact that 2 simple words had on an entire playlist and its player base that was the final nail in the coffin for me.

We can all clearly see that it’s Team SWAT right? Pretty blatantly, it IS Team SWAT :rofl:

Yet people are playing it as though it’s a CS:GO simulator. They all pick a room, grab a corner, and pitch a tent. Right from 0-0… You NEVER seen that kind of gameplay in Team SWAT unless it was 49-49 and even then, in the social variant of SWAT, who really treated it that seriously?

Also, if you treat it like Team SWAT and play it fast paced, you get your Xbox inbox filled up with cheating accusations and threats :joy:

This present day “Halo” player base is a sad, sick joke.

You literally can’t have more skill than the next guy. The game won’t let you and neither will these softies who play it :skull:

Like nothing is right about this Halo release. They !@#$ed the whole thing. It’s already dead, you don’t even need to take it behind the shed. Toss some dirt on top of it and swipe left. It’s already in the hole just waiting to be covered up.

I can’t take any part of the game seriously at this point. I can’t play social without being accused of cheating. I can’t play ranked without being accused of cheating.

I’m either cheating in “tactical slayer” because I’m not peeking doors and I’m just flying at them, or I’m cheating in ranked because I got a triple kill with the shock rifle that aims itself, or I spotted camo, which is just blatantly obvious on-screen compared to any other camo in Halo so far :joy: you’re serisouly calling me a cheater because of me spotting the walking mirage looking blob in the air? Better question: Are you telling me you DON’T SHOOT at it when you see it? Or do you just not see it? Like… WHAT?

Do people not realize that when they have camo they look like the heat waves in the air above a BBQ :joy::skull: you’re not hidden unless you’re STILL. Stop moving and I’ll stop seeing you and shooting you.

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There need to be future Halo MP experiences on engines derived from Blam, full stop.

I get it’s hard, but we can’t lose Halo’s soul. Especially when the true enemy is the process and system around the engine, and not the engine itself.

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The issue is that the studio directors don’t seem to realize that they have a dedicated target audience.
Both 343 Industries and Paramount Studios had made drastic creative decisions to alienate their consumer base in order to needlessly shoot for a different demographic.

343’s issue was that the first half of the studio’s existence was dedicated to “breaking tradition” in order to make their games stand out from the rest of the franchise.
And so Halo 4 played as if were a separate IP that was inspired by both CoD and Halo but instead was forced to be a Halo game.
Halo 5 Guardians was an attempt at making Halo a mobility shooter with a story that felt like it was written for a Teen rating rather than a Mature rating.
Halo Infinite was 343’s first legitimate attempt at making an actual Halo game. But when your studio is made up of people who were purposely hired for their dislike of the series, it is no wonder why the game had hardly any actual effort put into the project.
(all for the sake of breaking tradition 343’s hiring policy was to not hire people who played Halo or even enjoyed it in order to get ‘new ideas to innovate the gameplay loop and break the Halo tradition’)
The end result is what we have now.
A reported budget of $500,000,000 USD with the end result being what amounts to an alpha build of the game that has the visual polish to make it look like a final-release build of a game with a $60,000,000 at most…

Meanwhile in Paramount’s case, they had even stated that their rendition of the Halo TV show was going to use the IP characters and setting in order to tell a story that, and I quote, “A father and son could sit down and watch together after watching football.
Basically Paramount got paid to produce and publish someone’s fan-fiction they dug up online (metaphorically speaking)

The unfortunate truth is that Microsoft had entrusted the IP to two studios, one of which they had created for the sole purpose of creating more Halo content.
And both 343 and Paramount pulled off the Gravity Fall’s Dipper meme of “Oh… This is worthless” and decided to needlessly overcomplicate development rather than actually have a modicum of respect for the franchise that they were entrusted to carry on into the future.

Here is hoping that Microsoft has suddenly been shaken awake by this past decade of embarrassment after embarrassment and go over 343 Industries with an ultra-fine comb in order to root out the knots that hinder development and have a more watchful eye of the ongoings within the studios the company hosts.

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I think a part of the cheating issue is because of the lack of technical integrity of the game: dsync, hit registration, etc.

When there’s no confidence in the game play mechanics and the code it was built on, then everyone looks like a cheater.

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What is the “soul” of Halo?

For me the soul of Halo is the characters and stories told through the game play campaign. The deep sense of loneliness as you, the Rookie play through the streets of New Mombasa in ODST. The shock and sadness as Kat is k#$$ed in Reach.

As far as multiplayer; when Halo CE came out, MP was split screen co-op or a LAN party. In 2001 most people were still using dail-up modems and POP email for their internet access. Nothing like the gigabit connection available today.

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I agree with some of the stuff you posted. But it’s this first sentence that got me thinking. And what I came up with may just be a little uncomfortable for some.

But with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people playing more contemporary games (FortNite, Apex, etc.), that the decision has been made to let the current Halo “consumer base” of “dedicated target audience” to simply age out and restart the Halo franchise to a younger and larger audience with different gaming expectations…

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…you do realize that the majority of people who play videogames are actually in their thirties right? Aging out is a non issue when most of your playerbase are already enjoying the gameplay and wanting more.

Converting a successful formula into something else in the hopes of getting a new audience when your current audience already numbers in the millions is just honestly a bad decision.

Take a look at Halo Reach.
Charts show that its player-count peaks for daily unique users number at roughly 900k in the early quarter if the first year of the game being live and roughly 500k in the end of the first year being live.

Compared to Halo 4 which released two years later and they peaked at 410k players online and then on day 8 of being live it dropped to 200k. For the latter 8.5 months of the game being live there were less than 100k players online as most went back to playing Halo Reach and Halo 3.

Halo 4 tried to be a hybrid of Halo and Call of Duty when it came to multiplayer gameplay. The visuals and sound design were entirely foreign and different to the previous decade of work.
Ironically the original build of Halo 4 was basically Halo 3 enhanced. Though play-testers loved the experience, it was scrapped by the new franchise director because “It’s too traditional, we want something new.
And look at the consequences of that decision.
Playercounts were too low that there weren’t enough people online to play Halo 4 in order to make production of the planned Season 2 and Season 3 of Spartan-Ops and two more years of DLC packs to be profitable.
The costs well outweighed the profits so 2/3 of the post-launch content was ditched.

The original franchise director of 343 Industries, Mr. Frank O’Connor, wanted to shoot for a separate audience.
And look at the end result.

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Mint Blitz tweeted out the following question:

“If Halo changes to the Unreal Engine. Will it still feel like Halo?”

I tweeted back to him with:

Do you mean will it feel like a 20-year-old game being played on a 733 MHz Intel Pentium 3 connected to a CRT television… I certainly hope it doesn’t.

Yes, most of the original Halo players are now in their 30s and 40s. And most of them have kids to support and mortgages to pay. It is the new and younger gamers the have the time and disposable income to pay and grind out all these seasonal passes.

Two things can be true at the same time. 343i made bad decisions about Halo, AND younger gamers don’t want to play a game that feels old.

No I mean as in gaming in general.
Kids may have most of the free time, but the money is held by those who have jobs. As for the part where you say that ‘younger gamers have the time and disposable income’, that is a bit laughable. Sure, younger gamers are more irresponsible with money and these predatory microtransactions can yield a profit.
But the profit numbers are miniscule when the majority of your playerbase don’t play the newest game that has all the new paid-for content.

Is it any wonder why Halo MCC keeps on consistently pulling players in while Halo Infinite has such dwindling numbers?
Halo players still want to play Halo. Infinite’s misfortune is that while the intentional game design of Infinite is well made, the networking and drip of content is laughable and makes players want to avoid the newer game.

At launch MCC was very much the same.
Why try to play MCC online when the legacy versions had much more stable servers?
Eventually MCC finally got the networking updates needed to become consistent and allow for actual matchmaking and when the Legacy Game servers were shut down; we saw that the players went to MCC.

The main misfortune now is that 343 promised “a couple months” to patch in a Custom Games Browser system… and it took them nearly 40 months to provide CGB for 4 of the 6 multiplayer formats that MCC offers for PvP matchmaking.

If new Halo players truly wanted a new experience, then explain the dwindling player counts of Halo 4? Many of the players that I have spoken with that had Halo 4 be their introduction to the series have stated that they prefer the classic games over Halo 4, with it being no surprise that Halo Reach is their favorite of the bunch since Halo 4 was essentially Halo Reach with 10k mods installed.

Or perhaps it is the fact that younger gamers also want a game that is enjoyable?
Halo 4’s gameplay loop was Halo meets Call of Duty.
Certainly something new.
So why did its player-count only peak to less than half of the player-count of the previous game?

Meanwhile when it came to Halo 5 which was a more traditional Halo sandbox with just some mobility shooter aspects (thank god Wallrunning wasn’t added in with the Spartan Abilities), it resonated well with both the older and newer players… … … … at least when it comes to multiplayer gameplay. Discussion of all other things Halo 5 tends to lead into flamewars.

My point is when you have a working formula that shows clear signs of success, why bother heavily altering it? With sequels you are supposed to make minor innovations and updates.
Take a look at the original Modern Warfare trilogy.
MW1-thru-3 can be played back to back and it feels like you are essentially just playing a single huge game from start to finish.

Could you imagine if Infinity Ward looked at the success of Dice’s Battlefield franchise and forced you to pick loadouts based on what role you could play; limiting your weapons and perks selection based on what class your soldier was in MW3? Wanna run with SMGs? You gotta be a Medic and you cannot have a sniper rifle secondary.
Imagine the backlash from the dedicated fans if a sequel to an already established and consistent lineup of games suddenly didn’t play like the ones that came before?
What if Halo Wars 2 played more like Command & Conquer Generals instead of Halo Wars 1?
What if Halo 3 looked at the success of Gears of War and suddenly the game became a cover-to-cover shooter?

This is essentially what 343 did to Halo 4. Frank O’Connor and the multiplayer director at the time saw the success of Call of Duty, tried to copy it, and failed to succeed.
And to make matters worse, there is an interview during development where the devs even stated that they would NOT be copying the likes of CoD and Battlefield.
To quote Frank O’Connor himself -

  • It’s true you know. I think we’ve only only just crept up above Modern Warfare 2. We compete with them of course but we’re not trying to copy them or trying to chase their tail. What we’re trying to do is make the best possible game we can and that’s what you have to go after. I think if you try and copy what other people are doing and you do it badly, than it’s worse than if you’d never tried at all.

So the irony is that 343’s Franchise Director stated that they wouldn’t try to copy the success of others… and yet Halo 4 featured CoD-style Loadouts.

I would like to point out that Halo 3 peaked at over 1,000,000 players and Halo Reach peaked at around 900,000 players, with both of their playercounts keeping up with the likes of CoD MW2 and MW3.

Meanwhile Halo 4 featured a playercount peak of 410,000 players online and swiftly dwindled to nothing. While with the launch of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 we saw Halo 3’s player count drop to roughly 400,000 players online at launch and then recover; with Halo 4 the launch of Black-Ops 2 cut H4’s count to around 200,000 players even and then continued to drop from there.

Here is why I think Halo 4 had such a small peak of players compared to the previous two major entries - marketing presentation.
People saw the visuals of the franchise drastically changed in screenshots and trailers.
People heard the soundtrack’s unusual sound.
People read articles in gaming magazines and heard how the gameplay was altered. I can specifically recall how GameInformer spoke about loadouts being the game.
So with all of this knowledge, the skeptical players stepped aside and waited for the other players that played the game initially to give their feedback.

I can recall that for the next couple of years I could see over a dozen Halo 4 copies littering the discount-section of Walmart whenever I went shopping there, sitting alongside the likes of equally dozens of copies for CoD Ghosts.

Here is the sad truth of the matter.
Had Halo 4 not been a Halo game, it would’ve been successful. Let’s pretend it is a brand new IP, not a sequel to a already established brand of success. Lets change the script to exclude the names of Chief and Cortana, the UNSC, the Covenant, and the Forerunners and exchange them out for new names.
Master Chief is now Master Sergeant Clarke.
Cortana is now named as Cassandra.
The United Nations Space Command is now the UCADF - United Colonies Aerospace Defense Force
The Covenant are now The Conclave
Forerunners are now Remnants

And lets still tell the same story with this barely altered script of pronouns.
Master Sergeant Clarke and Cassandra are adrift in space and awaken from Cryosleep to find themselves orbiting an artificial world built by the Remnants. Unfortunately they encounter their alien enemy, The Conclave, and are forced into Guerrilla warfare on this artificial world. An ancient evil is released by this conflict and the Master Sergeant reunites with UCADF forces to even the odds. It is discovered that a Remnant Superweapon is going to be used and Master Sergeant has to put a stop to it. Unfortunately his A.I. companion is falling apart due to old age. Master Sergeant Clarke saves Humanity… but at a great cost.

Had Halo 4 been called something like “Requiem” or “Warmachine”, it would’ve been a much more successful and well-received title; especially if it was a new IP that advertised itself as “a game inspired by both the likes of Call of Duty and Halo”.

Instead however, it was advertised as the next Halo.
Only it didn’t look, sound, or feel like Halo.
It felt like this hypothetical new IP was taken and made to wear Halo’s skin, with the devs left somehow baffled at how such a gruesome sight left people irate and alienated so many players.

It’s good to make games feel new.
That is why sequels tend to innovate slightly on what came before.
But if a new game is coming out and it has not been a decade or more since the last major release of said game, you should NOT reimagine it to be something else.

Take a look at Doom.
2004 marked the last major release of that franchise until Bethesda made their next title.
Doom 2016 came out well over a decade after Doom 3. With it being a decade later, of course you don’t expect to see low-graphics and have it try to play like it was a sequel to Doom 3.
We don’t see Doom Eternal and Doom 2016 being all that different outside of a slight art-style choice change.
But what would’ve happened if Doom Eternal tried to go for a Cyberpunk Dystopian style of art? A soundtrack that was less metal and more industrial dubstep? What if the Knights in Doom Eternal were made to look more like Dark Souls knights instead of the high-tech knighthood we saw? Or the Angels and Demons suddenly going for biblical accuracy?

That is what Halo 4 did.
Drastic change that was uncalled for.
It matters not if you were a younger generation. The previous game was 2 years prior and boasted a playercount that was double what Halo 4 eventually did, with the peak playercounts of a year after launch showing Halo Reach having 25x the palyercount than Halo 4 did a year later.

If it isn’t broken, don’t break it on purpose just so you can try to fix it and show off your craftmanship while trying to act like you did us a favor.
All you did was break the family heirloom, put it back together with duct tape and glue, and then asked for $60 since you got the expensive glue and and duct-tape.

Two things: First, may I suggest a greater economy of words. Second, you seemed to have missed the significance of,

However, you are correct when you say,

It’s that games that feel like they were made over a decade ago are no longer enjoyable for most of the new and younger gamers.