While it is nice to finally have the modes from the older Halos back in finally (FireFight, Forge, Infection, Grifball) remember that these should be expectations, not commendations.
These are things that should have been in the vanilla game at launch.
Do not take this as another random hater post, I have hope that 343 will do a gangbuster job for Halo 6 and the direction of Halo Wars 2 looks amazing. I just don’t want to go through another Halo release with lackluster amounts of content.
Definitely.
The lack of Forge at launch was understandable since the new Forge is so much deeper and incredible. But holding out on game modes like Infection is extremely lame. How hard was it to make Infection? It’s seriously just Slayer with team switching and one team having different Spartan properties. And they still haven’t given us the ability to make 1-Flag CTF and 1-Bomb Assault. It wasn’t even in Halo 4 either. How could they scrap asymmetrical objective modes altogether when they used to be such a staple gametype that entire base-game maps like Zanzibar and High Ground were created around them?
Nothing should be taken as mandatory content. The developer has a deadline and a budget. All y’all keep thinking that you can have the content of a six year old game for the price of a twelve year old game, and that you can have it all complete and playable on launch day. Something in that equation has to give, and the thing that should have changed long ago was the price. Games should easily cost $100 by now given the nature of inflation, but the industry has held the line on price and the way they’ve done it is to cut content, or charge more on the back end, or both. I’m looking at you, Destiny.
So if you don’t want Halo to become Destiny then stop assuming that Halo has to have every single stupid and trivial game type that it had a million years ago that was played on an average night by fifteen people. Stop assuming that it has to have every stupid and pointless vehicle that it had a million years ago just because a couple of thirteen year old kids got engorged over a warthog with wings. Stop assuming that you deserve everything. Buying a game is not an entitlement - it’s a business transaction. They tell you up front what you’re gonna get and what it’s gonna cost you and then you vote with your wallet.
> 2533274873843883;3:
> Nothing should be taken as mandatory content. The developer has a deadline and a budget. All y’all keep thinking that you can have the content of a six year old game for the price of a twelve year old game, and that you can have it all complete and playable on launch day. Something in that equation has to give, and the thing that should have changed long ago was the price. Games should easily cost $100 by now given the nature of inflation, but the industry has held the line on price and the way they’ve done it is to cut content, or charge more on the back end, or both. I’m looking at you, Destiny.
>
> So if you don’t want Halo to become Destiny then stop assuming that Halo has to have every single stupid and trivial game type that it had a million years ago that was played on an average night by fifteen people. Stop assuming that it has to have every stupid and pointless vehicle that it had a million years ago just because a couple of thirteen year old kids got engorged over a warthog with wings. Stop assuming that you deserve everything. Buying a game is not an entitlement - it’s a business transaction. They tell you up front what you’re gonna get and what it’s gonna cost you and then you vote with your wallet.
If Halo 6 ships with slayer only, I’m totally quoting you on this.
> 2533274873843883;3:
> Nothing should be taken as mandatory content. The developer has a deadline and a budget. All y’all keep thinking that you can have the content of a six year old game for the price of a twelve year old game, and that you can have it all complete and playable on launch day. Something in that equation has to give, and the thing that should have changed long ago was the price. Games should easily cost $100 by now given the nature of inflation, but the industry has held the line on price and the way they’ve done it is to cut content, or charge more on the back end, or both. I’m looking at you, Destiny.
>
> So if you don’t want Halo to become Destiny then stop assuming that Halo has to have every single stupid and trivial game type that it had a million years ago that was played on an average night by fifteen people. Stop assuming that it has to have every stupid and pointless vehicle that it had a million years ago just because a couple of thirteen year old kids got engorged over a warthog with wings. Stop assuming that you deserve everything. Buying a game is not an entitlement - it’s a business transaction. They tell you up front what you’re gonna get and what it’s gonna cost you and then you vote with your wallet.
There’s a difference when each previous Halo had all of these modes from the get-go and Halo 5 (actually 4, to some degree) breaks the tradition. It’s expected because it’s something each game before it had no problem accomplishing while still pulling off the same grand feats.
It seems kind of backwards to miss out on so many gametypes, but have a more-than-impressive Forge. The implications of all the old gametypes with the power of Forge as well is mind blowing. The custom games. The action sack games. And much more. King of the Hog, for example. Even Husky Raid was something impossible until the community voiced their concern.
If they wanted this to be the penultimate Halo game, they should have included everything, make gametypes and custom game options just as expansive as Forge. I’m not crazy about the story, I’m not crazy about Spartan Abilities, the art style, the REQ system, customization, etc. But if this game was more “complete” gametype-wise, it would be the ultimate Halo multiplayer experience. Not saying it would be the best Halo game ever, no, I don’t think any amount of time will fix that. But it has the makings for being pretty good. We just need more gametypes.
> 2533274873843883;3:
> Nothing should be taken as mandatory content. The developer has a deadline and a budget. All y’all keep thinking that you can have the content of a six year old game for the price of a twelve year old game, and that you can have it all complete and playable on launch day. Something in that equation has to give, and the thing that should have changed long ago was the price. Games should easily cost $100 by now given the nature of inflation, but the industry has held the line on price and the way they’ve done it is to cut content, or charge more on the back end, or both. I’m looking at you, Destiny.
>
> So if you don’t want Halo to become Destiny then stop assuming that Halo has to have every single stupid and trivial game type that it had a million years ago that was played on an average night by fifteen people. Stop assuming that it has to have every stupid and pointless vehicle that it had a million years ago just because a couple of thirteen year old kids got engorged over a warthog with wings. Stop assuming that you deserve everything. Buying a game is not an entitlement - it’s a business transaction. They tell you up front what you’re gonna get and what it’s gonna cost you and then you vote with your wallet.
So… You think what Halo 5 had is exeptable? It is just now worthy of a Halo launch. I’m going to be keeping a close eye on Halo 6 because if they do this crap of holding back content purposely to make their updates seem better again, than I will just wait till the game is truly finished.
In general I can understand why they didn’t release with a lot of the content, but the gametypes are where I’m really thrown.
Creating 1 Flag and king of the hill and so a lesser extent, oddball, assault, infection… all these things can’t be that hard to do. Its a simple logic system of do x to get points with King of the hill just being “Is Spartan in zone”
Infection and assault in fairness did have some extra assets added In the form of the swords and bomb, and also with gameplay mechanics but still, can’t be that hard. I feel like the arena team is so set on “ARENA PERFECTION” that it fits in their E-sports mantra, that they’re afraid to add anything unless its been tested to oblivion.
I miss extraction and Richochet, they where the best bits of halo 4 and they’re not here.
> 2533274824175624;8:
> In general I can understand why they didn’t release with a lot of the content, but the gametypes are where I’m really thrown.
>
> Creating 1 Flag and king of the hill and so a lesser extent, oddball, assault, infection… all these things can’t be that hard to do. Its a simple logic system of do x to get points with King of the hill just being “Is Spartan in zone”
>
> Infection and assault in fairness did have some extra assets added In the form of the swords and bomb, and also with gameplay mechanics but still, can’t be that hard. I feel like the arena team is so set on “ARENA PERFECTION” that it fits in their E-sports mantra, that they’re afraid to add anything unless its been tested to oblivion.
>
> I miss extraction and Richochet, they where the best bits of halo 4 and they’re not here.
Ricochet is entirely possible. I just wish they brought it into matchmaking…
Their “Pro team” playtesters aren’t helping the game, they’re making it worse.
Omg!
Just stop with these damn posts already.
> 2533274873843883;3:
> Nothing should be taken as mandatory content. The developer has a deadline and a budget. All y’all keep thinking that you can have the content of a six year old game for the price of a twelve year old game, and that you can have it all complete and playable on launch day. Something in that equation has to give, and the thing that should have changed long ago was the price. Games should easily cost $100 by now given the nature of inflation, but the industry has held the line on price and the way they’ve done it is to cut content, or charge more on the back end, or both. I’m looking at you, Destiny.
>
> So if you don’t want Halo to become Destiny then stop assuming that Halo has to have every single stupid and trivial game type that it had a million years ago that was played on an average night by fifteen people. Stop assuming that it has to have every stupid and pointless vehicle that it had a million years ago just because a couple of thirteen year old kids got engorged over a warthog with wings. Stop assuming that you deserve everything. Buying a game is not an entitlement - it’s a business transaction. They tell you up front what you’re gonna get and what it’s gonna cost you and then you vote with your wallet.
ok you support mediocrity than. i expect every game mode from h1 to be in h2----->h3… you get my drift. and they advertised a campaign about chief vs loche… battle to the death… we got none of it ZERO… we all got duped with h5. it had less content than halo 1 maps wise and less game modes than halo 1 or halo 2.
> 2533274856723140;6:
> It seems kind of backwards to miss out on so many gametypes, but have a more-than-impressive Forge. The implications of all the old gametypes with the power of Forge as well is mind blowing. The custom games. The action sack games. And much more. King of the Hog, for example. Even Husky Raid was something impossible until the community voiced their concern.
>
> If they wanted this to be the penultimate Halo game, they should have included everything, make gametypes and custom game options just as expansive as Forge. I’m not crazy about the story, I’m not crazy about Spartan Abilities, the art style, the REQ system, customization, etc. But if this game was more “complete” gametype-wise, it would be the ultimate Halo multiplayer experience. Not saying it would be the best Halo game ever, no, I don’t think any amount of time will fix that. But it has the makings for being pretty good. We just need more gametypes.
Exactly. It’s so lame that we finally have the be-all-end-all Forge mode but there was nothing to Forge because all we had was Slayer, CTF, and Strongholds. Only recently did we receive Infection, and I feel it was far too late.
> 2533274873843883;3:
> Nothing should be taken as mandatory content. The developer has a deadline and a budget. All y’all keep thinking that you can have the content of a six year old game for the price of a twelve year old game, and that you can have it all complete and playable on launch day. Something in that equation has to give, and the thing that should have changed long ago was the price. Games should easily cost $100 by now given the nature of inflation, but the industry has held the line on price and the way they’ve done it is to cut content, or charge more on the back end, or both. I’m looking at you, Destiny.
> So if you don’t want Halo to become Destiny then stop assuming that Halo has to have every single stupid and trivial game type that it had a million years ago that was played on an average night by fifteen people. Stop assuming that it has to have every stupid and pointless vehicle that it had a million years ago just because a couple of thirteen year old kids got engorged over a warthog with wings. Stop assuming that you deserve everything. Buying a game is not an entitlement - it’s a business transaction. They tell you up front what you’re gonna get and what it’s gonna cost you and then you vote with your wallet.
Alright, where to begin with this.
Games have become bigger, more technologically advanced. However, so have the tools used to develop them, to the point even a solo layman like me can make the same kind of games that would’ve taken an entire studio to create back in the 80’s and early 90’s (cough x2). So exactly how much harder they are to develop compared to a few years ago is questionable given advancements in development technology since then.
Yes, there’s only so much content that can be made in so much time. Yes, not all game modes are created equal or should have equal treatment. Yes, bringing back modes that no one played is a waste of resources. It’s fallacious though to just assume that every missing mode is trivial. VIP? Yeah, sure, I can agree that probably only fifteen people ever actually played it and that it doesn’t NEED to return… Infection? One of Halo’s most popular modes in any title, pretty much a franchise staple at this point. It’s up to the developers to wisely pick and choose what they’re going to develop for launch and what they’re going to delay or cancel outright, and I think we can agree that prioritizing Breakout over Infection isn’t the smartest decision for them to make.
Furthermore, the game launched with essentially just THREE arena modes. Slayer, CTF, and KoTH-Lite. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect there to be a more diverse range of competitive modes than just those. especially considering how even Halo Ce had a wider selection of five core modes.
Even further-more (lol), Call of Duty manages similar content feats every other year. Granted it doesn’t have giant modes like Warzone, but it still manages to have completely original Campaign and Multiplayer Assets from iteration to iteration, i.e. they don’t recycle anything but the fundamental gameplay itself, everything has to be re-developed in just a year’s time.
> 2533274873843883;3:
> Nothing should be taken as mandatory content. The developer has a deadline and a budget. All y’all keep thinking that you can have the content of a six year old game for the price of a twelve year old game, and that you can have it all complete and playable on launch day. Something in that equation has to give, and the thing that should have changed long ago was the price. Games should easily cost $100 by now given the nature of inflation, but the industry has held the line on price and the way they’ve done it is to cut content, or charge more on the back end, or both. I’m looking at you, Destiny.
>
> So if you don’t want Halo to become Destiny then stop assuming that Halo has to have every single stupid and trivial game type that it had a million years ago that was played on an average night by fifteen people. Stop assuming that it has to have every stupid and pointless vehicle that it had a million years ago just because a couple of thirteen year old kids got engorged over a warthog with wings. Stop assuming that you deserve everything. Buying a game is not an entitlement - it’s a business transaction. They tell you up front what you’re gonna get and what it’s gonna cost you and then you vote with your wallet.
All I want is permanent play lists with the game modes they (finally)have now. Doesn’t take a lot of resources to not remove play lists that are already in the game. Or to add game modes that are already tested and available.
But REQs? Here’s another 200 pieces of armor and 40 Emblems, including the number 13.
In before “but the art team doesn’t…” because it’s not even about that. It’s about the blatant disregard for adding more play lists and game modes and/or removing the ones they already have. I doubt they would ever put Strongholds on rotation. Why? Because it’s their creation, so it must be great. But KotH? Nah, we don’t have time for that.
I think people are forgetting just how much Dev resources Warzone and the REQ system would have taken up.
Games are an iterative process, even the most simple of game modes take many many hours of manpower to develop, fine tune, test, fine tune, test and certify, with SPRINT cycles of various departments intersecting and various other priorities constantly reordering the production pipelines. It’s gotten to the point where there’s too much to develop in a 3 year timeframe - they either need to develop a post release content plan, have a longer development cycle or charge more and hire more developers and cram everything in, which comes with it’s own problems.
With Halo 6 they don’t have to start from scratch again though. They can take H5 and build upon it, taking the stuff they know works. Hopefully this means they can provide more playlists and modes and features we have come to expect at launch.
I think our expectations are a little high. I think about how popular Overwatch is - which essentially released as a full priced game with one social game-mode, no single player, no vs ai, only two types of objectives… Halo would get GRILLED if it just came out with Warzone, or just had slayer. Point is we hold Halo to a higher standard because of the previous titles, there’s so much raw content and a wealth of features we expect - there is a temporal constraint on what can make it into the final cut.
> I think people are forgetting just how much Dev resources Warzone and the REQ system would have taken up.
More like intentionally evading the elephant in the room.
Warzone didn’t need to happen, I doubt “12v12 MOBA Mode with REQs” was in most people’s minds when we asked for a simply larger BTB. The REQ system definitely didn’t need to happen, and a large portion of the fanbase is actually pissed off at its inclusion for reasons besides just how it eats into development.
For all the effort and time put into Warzone…it’s not very good at all. At least not to me. I can’t tolerate the ridiculously long and tedious matches or never having any of the new toys it adds to actually play with. Assault is the only tolerable version, and even then I might as well be playing a one-sided mode in BTB instead.
If they couldn’t include Warzone without including staple gametypes, or without succumbing to the temptations of Microtransactions, or even just without making it a decent mode…then I truly believe they shouldn’t have even bothered with it.
I think 343i has a bad habit of trying to go above and beyond our expectations and failing at it, instead of just simply giving us what we came here for. We asked for H2A, we got the entire MCC, and look how that turned out.
> 2533274873843883;3:
> Nothing should be taken as mandatory content. The developer has a deadline and a budget. All y’all keep thinking that you can have the content of a six year old game for the price of a twelve year old game, and that you can have it all complete and playable on launch day. Something in that equation has to give, and the thing that should have changed long ago was the price. Games should easily cost $100 by now given the nature of inflation, but the industry has held the line on price and the way they’ve done it is to cut content, or charge more on the back end, or both. I’m looking at you, Destiny.
>
> So if you don’t want Halo to become Destiny then stop assuming that Halo has to have every single stupid and trivial game type that it had a million years ago that was played on an average night by fifteen people. Stop assuming that it has to have every stupid and pointless vehicle that it had a million years ago just because a couple of thirteen year old kids got engorged over a warthog with wings. Stop assuming that you deserve everything. Buying a game is not an entitlement - it’s a business transaction. They tell you up front what you’re gonna get and what it’s gonna cost you and then you vote with your wallet.
This is the most idiotic, anti-consumer garbage I have ever read on this site. This is not a trivial issue. Halo 5 launched with fewer game modes than the FIRST GAME. Consumers are entitled to a quality product. In a series that has ALWAYS added to the previous entry, it is perfectly reasonable to expect as a baseline the same amount of content as the previous title, not FAR, FAR LESS. Yes, when I spend 250 dollars on a SEQUEL to a long-running series, it is in no way unreasonable to feel entitled to a vaguely comparable amount of content and features to previous titles. Get out of here with this kind of idiocy.
And you want to talk about cost? How about we talk about the ridiculous amounts of “Collector’s Edition” merchandise they peddled off at the launch of this game? Consoles, controllers, CE soundtrack, etc. How about the most unreasonably expensive “Legendary Edition” in the history of the franchise? How about the REQ system and special REQ bundles? How about HCS packs and other limited packs? You’re seriously going to suggest that the CONSUMER needs to keep in consideration the cost of development when this is, without a doubt, the most monetized Halo game to date, while launching with less content than any other entry in the series, with the possible exception of the FIRST GAME? And guess what? CE still had more Arena games modes at lunch, none of which were utter trash like Breakout. “Stupid and trivial game type?” Like ODDBALL? ASSAULT? ASYMMETRICAL OBJECTIVE? Poor, poor multi-billion dollar corporation, Microsoft. They just can’t afford to ship a complete game at launch, while pimping the IP out for merchandise at every turn, because of INFLATION. Give me a break.
That’s another great point that I actually hadn’t considered before, I can’t go down a toy isle anymore without seeing hundreds of Halo Lego sets.
Telling me they can’t provide us with free DLC without microtransactions when all this merchandise is everywhere.
To say that the game types aren’t in the game because of dev time is just idiotic. It’s their obsession with “perfection” which holds them back and their lack of commitment.
Look at Odball or Richochet, both of these now can be made in custom games from assault but there’s no official game type. It’s like they don’t want to make an official game type for fear of repercussions.
> 2533274824175624;8:
> In general I can understand why they didn’t release with a lot of the content, but the gametypes are where I’m really thrown.
>
> Creating 1 Flag and king of the hill and so a lesser extent, oddball, assault, infection… all these things can’t be that hard to do. Its a simple logic system of do x to get points with King of the hill just being “Is Spartan in zone”
>
> Infection and assault in fairness did have some extra assets added In the form of the swords and bomb, and also with gameplay mechanics but still, can’t be that hard. I feel like the arena team is so set on “ARENA PERFECTION” that it fits in their E-sports mantra, that they’re afraid to add anything unless its been tested to oblivion.
>
> I miss extraction and Richochet, they where the best bits of halo 4 and they’re not here.
I’ll admit that when they have the custom games options to create Oddball or Ricochet its strange that they won’t make use of them.
However, actually building new gametypes (or rebuilding old ones) from scratch takes a lot more work than just one guy writing a few lines of code.
With King of the Hill, for example, let’s say you have one guy writing the base script. Stand in zone to score points as it were. You also have to script in everything that game type might need:player traits, triggers, asset moving, despawning, everything else needed to run the gametype that can’t be inherited from a base game type, if there is one. You also need someone else to design any new asset objects if the game mode needs them (I.e, ball). Then you need a third guy presumably to make the model, possibly another to do the physics. Then another guy to do any special effects for the game type, another to do new audio, Jeff would need to come in and record new announcer dialogue. Then you’ve got a guy to design new medals, and guys to do the UI and make everything appear in game. Whoever’s in charge of stattracking needs to add new stuff, And then you’ve got all the people who test the -Yoink- out of it and then the managers and directors who sign off on it, then the live team has to update the game.
And it needs to be Forgeable, so all the Forge guys need involved as well.