Misconceptions of previous Halo's.

Games Other Halo
1

Hey Waypoint community, my name is Dagger. I often lurk these forums without posting, as I did the Bungie forums. As you all know, Bloom is a hot topic of discussion. While I have my own opinion on bloom, that’s not important right now. I just kind of want to end one form of argument for bloom I see a lot, which is usually misunderstood.

Often times, I see people state two things about the history of “bloom” in prior Halo’s (prior as in before Halo:Reach)

  1. The Halo 3 Battle Rifle has “bloom” that makes it random.
    2.The Halo CE pistol has “bloom”

These are both partially wrong, and here is why:

  1. The Halo 3 BR had spread, a completely separate concept from bloom. The concept of bloom punishes a fast rate of fire. The faster you shoot,the more random your gun becomes. H3 Battle Rifle spread is a different concept entirely. The main idea though, and why it is different from bloom, is it is COMPLETELY random. There is no way to control the spread of your BR, where with bloom you can control just how accurate you are by shooting slower.

2.The Halo 1 pistol had no “bloom” unless the trigger was held down, which most Halo 1 vets did not do. If you just tap the trigger, it’s entirely accurate no matter how fast you shoot.

If something here is false, or I need to elaborate on something more, please tell me and I will correct the OP. Thanks for your time if you read this, and please refrain from using these arguments in the future. Thank you.

Edit: Wetwork Expert pointed out something I feel is pretty important to point out as well.
A huge misconception of Halo 1 is that it is a one weapon game. As he pointed out most people think “CE had the “god tier” pistol and was a one weapon rules them all game.”

This is false. He then went on to point out CE had the most viable sandbox of all the Halo’s. This was because everything filled a needed role and was powerful in its own way. Not just Sniper and Rockets, but also guns like the Assault Rifle and Shotgun among others. They all have a deemed role that that particular gun succeeds in, where as other Halo’s have guns that are complete wastes.

Also, going to change the name of the topic from “Just want to clear something about bloom.” To, “Misconceptions of previous Halo’s.”

2

correct… lurk on man… lurk on

3

This is pretty much all there is to it. Sadly enough, most people will ignore this fact and just continue to say that prior games had bloom to defend the poorly thought out mechanic in Reach. Bloom in Reach basically allows you to fire at the max rate of fire without really getting punished and what it subtly does for the game is make your area of effect for hitting shots much larger than what it should be. Allowing for a huge margin of error to be acceptable since you have a good chance of anything within that circle being hit.

TLDR: H:R bloom allows you to be successfully inaccurate.
Spread in prior games was only effective beyond mid-range and at least everyone had the same rate of fire, so you could never lose to someone firing faster than you and getting lucky.

EDIT: I’d also like to add one more misconception to your thread, CE had the “god tier” pistol and was a one weapon rules them all game.

Nope, CE had the most complete, and viable sandbox out of the entire series. H3 had the least viable sandbox, and Halo 2 wasn’t too far behind.

4

Halo 4 should have bloom for DMR only

5

> Halo 4 should have bloom for DMR only

It shouldn’t have bloom at all, it’s a crutch for bad players. Aim assist and bullet magnetism are more than enough to make up for the fact that we have to use the inaccurate xbox controllers, we don’t need bloom to make it easier.

6

> > Halo 4 should have bloom for DMR only
>
> It shouldn’t have bloom at all, it’s a crutch for bad players. Aim assist and bullet magnetism are more than enough to make up for the fact that we have to use the inaccurate xbox controllers, we don’t need bloom to make it easier.

7

> > > Halo 4 should have bloom for DMR only
> >
> > It shouldn’t have bloom at all, it’s a crutch for bad players. Aim assist and bullet magnetism are more than enough to make up for the fact that we have to use the inaccurate xbox controllers, we don’t need bloom to make it easier.

8

> This is pretty much all there is to it. Sadly enough, most people will ignore this fact and just continue to say that prior games had bloom to defend the poorly thought out mechanic in Reach. Bloom in Reach basically allows you to fire at the max rate of fire without really getting punished and what it subtly does for the game is make your area of effect for hitting shots much larger than what it should be. Allowing for a huge margin of error to be acceptable since you have a good chance of anything within that circle being hit.
>
> TLDR: H:R bloom allows you to be successfully inaccurate.
> Spread in prior games was only effective beyond mid-range and at least everyone had the same rate of fire, so you could never lose to someone firing faster than you and getting lucky.
>
> EDIT: I’d also like to add one more misconception to your thread, CE had the “god tier” pistol and was a one weapon rules them all game.
>
> Nope, CE had the most complete, and viable sandbox out of the entire series. H3 had the least viable sandbox, and Halo 2 wasn’t too far behind.

I put some of your post in the OP, and changed the topic.
Also guys, I hate to ask this, but any “thanks” to the OP from you guys are welcome, just to get more people to see this, as this was directed to those who argue those points in the first place.

9

The Halo CE pistol had spread even if you tapped the trigger. It just didn’t that much spread, but it had a little.

The CE sandbox was great for campaign due to ammo limitations, but it wasn’t that balanced in multiplayer. The assault rifle was worthless in CE multiplayer. The pistol could kill faster at all ranges, even if you don’t get a headshot. The same thing applies to the plasma rifle, plasma pistol, and the needler.

The only weapons that got used in CE are:

The pistol
The sniper rifle
The rocket launcher
The shotgun (sometimes)
The flamethrower (PC only)
The fuel rod gun (PC only)

Needlers, plasma rifles, plasma pistols, and assault rifles were almost never used in multiplayer. Although the plasma pistol was good at taking down vehicles as vehicles were invicible and were defeated by killing the pilot. Shooting a banshee with a charged PP would disable the pilots shields, making it easier to kill the pilot. But hardly anyone ever seemed to figure that out.

The CE sandbox was “okay,” but it certainly was not the most balanced sandbox in Halo multiplayer.

The H3 sandbox was better.

All of the weapons were useful in some way, except perhaps the spiker.

All of the so-called useless weapons were good as melee clubs. Except the spiker of course. All of the weapons that were designed for dual wielding could be useful in different dual wield combinations.

In CE, the assault rifle, plasma rifle, and needler were nothing compared to the pistol. No matter how you used them. And the plasma pistol was only rarely useful.

Also, CE on PC had X-treme lag which made people very :frowning:

10

> Also, CE on PC had X-treme lag which made people very :frowning:

Which is why I really don’t want to see a CE MP game on Xbox LIVE. Granted I’ve been in games, most of them was server based games, that had next to no lag, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t any lag.

11

> The Halo CE pistol had spread even if you tapped the trigger. It just didn’t that much spread, but it had a little.
>
> The CE sandbox was great for campaign due to ammo limitations, but it wasn’t that balanced in multiplayer. The assault rifle was worthless in CE multiplayer. The pistol could kill faster at all ranges, even if you don’t get a headshot. The same thing applies to the plasma rifle, plasma pistol, and the needler.
>
> The only weapons that got used in CE are:
>
> The pistol
> The sniper rifle
> The rocket launcher
> The shotgun (sometimes)
> The flamethrower (PC only)
> The fuel rod gun (PC only)
>
> Needlers, plasma rifles, plasma pistols, and assault rifles were almost never used in multiplayer. Although the plasma pistol was good at taking down vehicles as vehicles were invicible and were defeated by killing the pilot. Shooting a banshee with a charged PP would disable the pilots shields, making it easier to kill the pilot. But hardly anyone ever seemed to figure that out.
>
>
> The CE sandbox was “okay,” but it certainly was not the most balanced sandbox in Halo multiplayer.
>
> The H3 sandbox was better.
>
> All of the weapons were useful in some way, except perhaps the spiker.
>
> All of the so-called useless weapons were good as melee clubs. Except the spiker of course. All of the weapons that were designed for dual wielding could be useful in different dual wield combinations.
>
> In CE, the assault rifle, plasma rifle, and needler were nothing compared to the pistol. No matter how you used them. And the plasma pistol was only rarely useful.
>
> Also, CE on PC had X-treme lag which made people very :frowning:

How is the Halo 3 sandbox the most balanced? Dual Wielding was left in but was never implemented as much of a part of the maps or design process at all. SMG’s were okay, AR was terrible and took a whole magazine if not more to kill someone when you were a slight distance away from the optimal distance to be shooting. Magnums were entirely worthless unless Dual Wielded, and even then you would need far more accuracy than what’s needed for a BR to make them work. You also have to hunt for dual magnums as well when you weren’t on the few maps that placed them together like Guardian. BR trumped everything in that game. The only thing that wasn’t really a power weapon that worked well was the Mauler, and it was incorporated into MLG for that reason since it was a less powerful ambush version of the shotgun.

Furthermore at least Dual Wielding played a big part on most maps in Halo 2, there were FAR more opportunities to dual wield, especially since the level design of the maps provided more CQC combat than Halo 3 ever did. One of the best dual wield combo’s (SMG Magnum) worked better in Halo 2 as well. The more I look at it, the more I see Halo 3’s dual wielding as a sign of indecision. They didn’t improve on it, nor did they take it out. They just left it there because there was no reason to take it out and it’s seen as “content” even though it’s virtually useless in practice except in certain maps.

I do think you’re somewhat correct though, if they had buffed the DW damage for weapons all around by a bit, it would’ve been more viable. You can’t nerf the BR otherwise the kill time is too slow, but as it stands it still trumped DW weapons in close range if used properly.

Also the pistol was obviously good in CE, but the AR was entirely viable option for it’s intended niche. In it’s niche the pistol does not usually win for most players. The pistol was strong, but so is a sniper rifle if you never miss. But people do miss, and unless you’re 3 shotting 100% of the time it’s fine, even if you go for body shots it’s still about the same time as an AR, but the difference is you have to use skill to match the AR’s efficiency and there’s a greater likelihood of you choking on your shots than somebody with an AR missing.

Efficiency within a niche usually means it’s easier to use that weapon versus something else when used in that manner.

12

You guys both bring up solid points, and I agree with Wetwork. the AR had a role in CE,and you could definitely take people by surprise with it. Sure, it wasn’t amazing, but it filled it’s role, and honestly that’s all that needs to be done.

> > The Halo CE pistol had spread even if you tapped the trigger. It just didn’t that much spread, but it had a little.
> >
> > The CE sandbox was great for campaign due to ammo limitations, but it wasn’t that balanced in multiplayer. The assault rifle was worthless in CE multiplayer. The pistol could kill faster at all ranges, even if you don’t get a headshot. The same thing applies to the plasma rifle, plasma pistol, and the needler.
> >
> > The only weapons that got used in CE are:
> >
> > The pistol
> > The sniper rifle
> > The rocket launcher
> > The shotgun (sometimes)
> > The flamethrower (PC only)
> > The fuel rod gun (PC only)
> >
> > Needlers, plasma rifles, plasma pistols, and assault rifles were almost never used in multiplayer. Although the plasma pistol was good at taking down vehicles as vehicles were invicible and were defeated by killing the pilot. Shooting a banshee with a charged PP would disable the pilots shields, making it easier to kill the pilot. But hardly anyone ever seemed to figure that out.
> >
> >
> > The CE sandbox was “okay,” but it certainly was not the most balanced sandbox in Halo multiplayer.
> >
> > The H3 sandbox was better.
> >
> > All of the weapons were useful in some way, except perhaps the spiker.
> >
> > All of the so-called useless weapons were good as melee clubs. Except the spiker of course. All of the weapons that were designed for dual wielding could be useful in different dual wield combinations.
> >
> > In CE, the assault rifle, plasma rifle, and needler were nothing compared to the pistol. No matter how you used them. And the plasma pistol was only rarely useful.
> >
> > Also, CE on PC had X-treme lag which made people very :frowning:
>
> How is the Halo 3 sandbox the most balanced? Dual Wielding was left in but was never implemented as much of a part of the maps or design process at all. SMG’s were okay, AR was terrible and took a whole magazine if not more to kill someone when you were a slight distance away from the optimal distance to be shooting. Magnums were entirely worthless unless Dual Wielded, and even then you would need far more accuracy than what’s needed for a BR to make them work. You also have to hunt for dual magnums as well when you weren’t on the few maps that placed them together like Guardian. BR trumped everything in that game. The only thing that wasn’t really a power weapon that worked well was the Mauler, and it was incorporated into MLG for that reason since it was a less powerful ambush version of the shotgun.
>
> Furthermore at least Dual Wielding played a big part on most maps in Halo 2, there were FAR more opportunities to dual wield, especially since the level design of the maps provided more CQC combat than Halo 3 ever did. One of the best dual wield combo’s (SMG Magnum) worked better in Halo 2 as well. The more I look at it, the more I see Halo 3’s dual wielding as a sign of indecision. They didn’t improve on it, nor did they take it out. They just left it there because there was no reason to take it out and it’s seen as “content” even though it’s virtually useless in practice except in certain maps.
>
> I do think you’re somewhat correct though, if they had buffed the DW damage for weapons all around by a bit, it would’ve been more viable. You can’t nerf the BR otherwise the kill time is too slow, but as it stands it still trumped DW weapons in close range if used properly.
>
> Also the pistol was obviously good in CE, but the AR was entirely viable option for it’s intended niche. In it’s niche the pistol does not usually win for most players. The pistol was strong, but so is a sniper rifle if you never miss. But people do miss, and unless you’re 3 shotting 100% of the time it’s fine, even if you go for body shots it’s still about the same time as an AR, but the difference is you have to use skill to match the AR’s efficiency and there’s a greater likelihood of you choking on your shots than somebody with an AR missing.
>
> Efficiency within a niche usually means it’s easier to use that weapon versus something else when used in that manner.