> They are like the English complaining about how guerrilla warfare wasn’t fair during that time.
Haha I’m not sure if I agree with everything you said, but I do agree with that last point!
You shouldn’t have to “adapt” to something that ruins map control like people jetpacking around.
> You shouldn’t have to “adapt” to something that ruins map control like people jetpacking around.
Jetpacks ruining map control?
Is that still a thing?
I thought they dealt with that when they nerfed the hell out of the jetpack, lowered the ceilings on all maps and shrunk them, and turned the auto aim+magnetism up to “Easy Modo”
Of course, there’s still the whole killstreak airdrop random guns to deal with, but that’s not what I’m talking about here.
I do not care for what most people that call themselves competitive players on this forum want.
If 343i listened to us all, there would be no game.
The OP proves that because, despite his rationality, most others want to banish AA completely…
Very good post, just take a bit of umbrage to point #4. Jetpacks have no effect on the chances a skilled opponent or coordinated team will be able to hold the high ground. Jetpacking makes a very discernible NOISE - if you can’t react to it, you’re not paying attention. By jetpacking (trust me, I know) you expose yourself to all kinds of weapon fire - especially if you’re attempting to gain the high ground. In my experience, a well coordinated team of skilled players can control a map from the high ground with DMRs and magnums.
That’s the thing about Team Throwdown that’s a real downer. Just because it’s the so-called competitive playlist that everyone is calling, doesn’t mean its perfect. It needs changes additions and fixes. I hate the whole idea that the options are so narrowed down. It could be better with Light Rifle and Carbine Loadouts. Get rid of two start grenades and push for more gun fire. Bring more fair game play WITH options.
> You shouldn’t have to “adapt” to something that ruins map control like people jetpacking around.
Um, yes you should.
I also tend to think that if Halo 4 had come before Halo 2 competitive players would be arguing for the same things they now want stripped. I understand competitive, I don’t respect ‘stuck in the past’. I’ve never been skilled at an elite level in this game but I can see what’s in front of me - extremely skilled players in Halo will continue to dominate regardless of settings because skilled players rely on knowledge, strategy, and - unfortunately - reaction time. Anyone who says AAs or ordnance drops are affecting their ability to win games most likely aren’t as good as they’d have you believe.
> I also tend to think that if Halo 4 had come before Halo 2 competitive players would be arguing for the same things they now want stripped. I understand competitive, I don’t respect ‘stuck in the past’. I’ve never been skilled at an elite level in this game but I can see what’s in front of me - extremely skilled players in Halo will continue to dominate regardless of settings because skilled players rely on knowledge, strategy, and - unfortunately - reaction time. Anyone who says AAs or ordnance drops are affecting their ability to win games most likely aren’t as good as they’d have you believe.
One of my friends who is a big Halo 4 naysayer, has a saying, “If you were good in Halo 2 & 3, you’ll be good in 4. If you were bad in Halo 2 &3, chances are you’re still bad in halo 4.”
Something I thoroughly agree with, as he can wipe the floor with me no matter which version we play.
> > I also tend to think that if Halo 4 had come before Halo 2 competitive players would be arguing for the same things they now want stripped. I understand competitive, I don’t respect ‘stuck in the past’. I’ve never been skilled at an elite level in this game but I can see what’s in front of me - extremely skilled players in Halo will continue to dominate regardless of settings because skilled players rely on knowledge, strategy, and - unfortunately - reaction time. Anyone who says AAs or ordnance drops are affecting their ability to win games most likely aren’t as good as they’d have you believe.
>
> One of my friends who is a big Halo 4 naysayer, has a saying, “If you were good in Halo 2 & 3, you’ll be good in 4. <mark>If you were bad in Halo 2 & 3, chances are you’re still bad in halo 4.</mark>”
>
> Something I thoroughly agree with, as he can wipe the floor with me no matter which version we play.
I’m afraid I’ll have to disagree with your friend at that part.
I’ve been terrible at Halo (and most non-twitch shooters) all my life, what with my poor headshot accuracy, my slow and wonky reaction times, my tendency to panic when under heavy fire, and my tendency to change targets a bit too early.
Yet the last time I played Halo 4, I got frustrated and bored because it was just too easy (and the customs, but that’s an old story for another thread). Not because people were falling for the hologram (which surprised the hell out of me considering its poor effectiveness in Reach), and not because of some newfound talent with the game’s infantry-based gameplay.
It was because I was being spoon-fed. I never had to fear vehicles because I could simply respawn with a PP and plasma grenades the moment I was killed. I never had to worry about trying to aim for the head because the game did it for me. The only thing I EVER had to worry about was running out of ammo because the ammo I was given lasted about fifteen seconds and there was nothing for me to pick up on the map, forcing me to either get killed or go for a melee kill.
I don’t like losing, but I like being spoiled even less so.
I as a competitive player, I would prefer Carbine starts, they take more skill, IMO.
While I congratulate the OP for having a level head, demystifying competitive requests and generally attempting to display a uniform set of competitive rules/wants it’s not exactly on the money.
The real misconception is in thinking there is a universal standard for all competitive players. There is no one setting to satisfy all competitive types.
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There are many types of competitive players; BTB objective teams, MLG 4v4, ranked Halo 3 slayer, ranked Halo 3 objective, doubles, stats padding competition, AGL, Grifball league and the list just goes on and on.
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There are many settings due to point 1; MLG no radar, default Halo with radar, split MLG community about BR vs. DMR loadouts, split community about AA’s vs no AA’s, 1-sided objectives vs. MLG 2 flag and again this list goes on and on.
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Playlists, settings and weekly updates/tweaks are the answer; create sub-communities for each playlist with a base setting difference and iterate from there combined with forum/player stats feedback.
In the end the OP content does not remove any misconceptions as the OP started with a major misconception in the first place. If the OP reworked the post to duplicate the dot points per playlist and then alter based on major playlist community settings we would have something to work with.
However we already have this in a better more open discussion form with the new War Games Feedback threads. They already remove misconceptions with diverse playlist settings and create an open discussion feedback loop direct to the developers which they can combine with their in game statistics tracking.
Each player or team has a range of game types, maps and settings they play. Most players have 2 or 3 frequent playlists. Trying to generalise the broad term “competitive” like the OP did is futile at best. Players who are hardcore ranked Halo 3 objective are not going to like the settings from hardcore MLG for example. Both are very competitive and at the top of their games. The just have differing competitive settings, no misconceptions just differences of competitive opinions and wants from their preferred game types.
> I also tend to think that if Halo 4 had come before Halo 2 competitive players would be arguing for the same things they now want stripped. I understand competitive, I don’t respect ‘stuck in the past’. I’ve never been skilled at an elite level in this game but I can see what’s in front of me - extremely skilled players in Halo will continue to dominate regardless of settings because skilled players rely on knowledge, strategy, and - unfortunately - reaction time. Anyone who says AAs or ordnance drops are affecting their ability to win games most likely aren’t as good as they’d have you believe.
You have to consider too that those players are still going to win almost all of their games, but don’t enjoy the game as much with the new features. My issues with vanilla Reach (along with the overwhelming majority of players that even touched a ranked playlist) weren’t that “I don’t win anymore!/I can’t adapt!”, it was “The DMR is seriously RANDOM?!/There’s a freaking INVINCIBILITY button?!?” There were actually people defending that game’s changes too, as if bloom and armor lock were good for the game.
One could argue that this series’ skillgap has been deliberately shrunk in each iteration to appease a broader fanbase (or court an entirely different one with Reach and H4.) The default movement speed and killtimes have kept getting slower except for slight improvements from Reach to H4, the power weapons got much easier to use, tactical jumps became largely irrelevant due to the jetpack, power weapon control became largely irrelevant on the default maps due to personal ordinance, power weapons and personal ordinance became RANDOM, and to top it off, we were promised a “classic” playlist at launch that never happened. I don’t know if that was supposed to be the original Slayer Pro (which was a joke), but 343 seem to think that only “Halo 2 purists” liked classic gameplay.
Now we have people that think that the closest thing to “pure” gameplay settings in a playlist are “outdated.” I think it shows how alienated a lot of the diehard fans are now. We’ve been left with a game that barely resembles the originals on more than a superficial level, and arguing in favor of classic options always seems to garner responses of “hurr get with the times grandpa lol adapt.”
> I do not care for what most people that call themselves competitive players on this forum want.
>
> If 343i listened to us all, <mark>there would be no game.</mark>
>
> The OP proves that because, despite his rationality, <mark>most others want to banish AA completely.</mark>
Because AAs=the game? You know there were Halo games before Reach, right?
> > You shouldn’t have to “adapt” to something that ruins map control like people jetpacking around.
>
> Um, yes you should.
In competitive play? You’re delusional if you think giving people a jetpack off spawn doesn’t affect map control negatively. The strawman argument a lot of people like to make about “if you dislike (x)'s effect on the game, you just can’t adapt to it!” always seems to disregard the point they actually made about why that game element effects it negatively. Remember the “lol adapt” days after Reach’s release? Is there anyone here that actually thinks bloom and armor lock were good for the game?
> Very good post, just take a bit of umbrage to point #4. Jetpacks have no effect on the chances a skilled opponent or coordinated team will be able to hold the high ground. Jetpacking makes a very discernible NOISE - if you can’t react to it, you’re not paying attention. By jetpacking (trust me, I know) you expose yourself to all kinds of weapon fire - especially if you’re attempting to gain the high ground. In my experience, a well coordinated team of skilled players can control a map from the high ground with DMRs and magnums.
It won’t effect the ability of the team as a whole to hold the high ground when they coordinate their efforts and attention, but it enables players to get cheap kills from a position they shouldn’t have been able to reach in the first place. If I had a nickel for every time I saw someone jetpack up to ring 3 on Abandon and spam two grenades before getting picked off and get a kill…
It undermines the importance of setting up on the high ground and creates some ridiculous advantages for certain power weapons. Jetpack+an explosive power weapon anyone? I’m not saying “GRRR ME HATE ARMOR ABILITY MAEK GAEM LIEK HALO 2,” I just don’t want them available off spawn in competitive play, and certain ones don’t have a place in competitive settings in any form. I think camo should be scrapped altogether as an AA and returned to a powerup, but that’s another argument.
Well done good post. I do think people misunderstand what competitive players want a lot of the time
Great post man. I take it you spend lots of time at THC like I do.
Oh, and I think we have the same last name. 
oops
The thing is 99% of the people posting here say the same things you said are false make the game competitive. You say that competitives aren’t for those things (which I believe), but the people running around here screaming ‘competitive’ everywhere are representing the exact opposite of the things you want.
You should thank all the half-thought complaint threads claiming BR starts, CSR, no loadouts, and Halo 2/3 style gameplay is what would bring it back and make it competitive. We have 2 different communities using the same name and it really makes competitives look bad.
> > Good post though im pretty sure the br spreads upward in a straight line. I think thats why they kept it in team throwdown
>
> No, it does not. Spread is 100% random. It recoils upward, but the bullets spread in a cone, and is randomized every trigger pull.
There’s recoil and spread?
> All precision weapons have the same aim assist gravitation.
> All precision weapons have the same magnetism, except the carbine which has slightly more.
>
> The difference is the range of the aim assist, where the DMR has the most aim assist range, the LR is second, and the BR/carbine are both third.
This has been confirmed through tests, I presume?
Good to know. I’ll have to keep it in mind in future discussions on this topic.
> I think this is the biggest concern I have with “Competitive” players. <mark>Many call for the death of AA’s, Packages and load outs without thinking more than.</mark>
> <mark>We’re not starting the same so it’s not balanced.</mark>
I’ve seen quite a few competitives who support the concept of loadout weapons. They don’t automatically assume that there is imbalance just because people don’t have the exact same guns. Instead, they take issue with the fact that some weapons are objectively better than others – the DMR being objectively better than the BR, or the Boltshot being objectively better than the other sidearms. Bring those two in line with their companions, and these competitive players would have no issues with the system (that I’m aware of, anyway).
> > Good post though im pretty sure the br spreads upward in a straight line. I think thats why they kept it in team throwdown
>
> No, it does not. Spread is 100% random. It recoils upward, but the bullets spread in a cone, and is randomized every trigger pull.
The same could be said about the DMR when it is bloomed out, but that is irrelevant due to its large amount of magnetism and aim assist.