Melee Combat in Reach

I’m of the opinion that melee combat in Reach is far too substantial. Far too many of the deaths that I consider frustrating are due to melee deaths. Every other time I die, I can attribute it to some sort of skill or tactical thinking by my opponent… but not with pummels. The TU improved the problem with bleedthrough, but resurrected alot of the AR-charge-melee mentality that plagued Halo 3.

For those of you who may prefer a large melee lunge, consider an alternative solution: adjust movement so that players can walk backwards as fast as they walk forwards.

As it stands, you have no chance of avoiding a mutual melee if you’re being charged at and are trying to back up and keep distance. This is because the backwards walking speed is slightly slower than the forward walking speed.

I think making this small change could solve alot of the debate that goes around regarding CQC in Reach, all without having to remove the (insane) melee lunge that people seem to like.

Do you think this should be considered for future titles?

While I agree with the issue, I still feel its much better than the non-bleed through variant. I still avoid melee as much as possible, ever since the Halo 3 patch. Now melee leads to too many undeserved deaths.

Great post. I know of few who are actually aware of this factor (That you walk slower backwards). Although I think this factor exists to help keep the power of CQC weapons like the shotgun and sword. If they can’t “catch up” with you, you can easily DMR/BR/Whatever them before they can kill you.

I personally think the best vs easiest (least trade offs) thing to do to solve this problem is simply move to 75% melee. It results in you only dying from a melee once you have about 10% shields left (instead of the 20-30% it is at right now). At least for Reach where we cannot make drastic modifications to the code (ie how much damage a melee does your health).

75% melee even fixed many problems the non-bleed through melee but it is even more fixed, IMO, with the bleed through. Test it out in some customs. I am currently advocating 110%DR/90% melee or 75% Melee to be in the next TU Beta playlist with this thread. Support it if you are interested in these settings.

Also, in general I avoid melee battles at all costs. Only 6% of my overall kills are from melees (as opposed to my 10% in H3). especially with the DMR bloom, it is best to keep your distance in Reach.

> I’m of the opinion that melee combat in Reach is far too substantial. Far too many of the deaths that I consider frustrating are due to melee deaths. Every other time I die, I can attribute it to some sort of skill or tactical thinking by my opponent… but not with pummels. The TU improved the problem with bleedthrough, but resurrected alot of the AR-charge-melee mentality that plagued Halo 3.
>
> For those of you who may prefer a large melee lunge, consider an alternative solution: adjust movement so that players can walk backwards as fast as they walk forwards.
>
> As it stands, you have no chance of avoiding a mutual melee if you’re being charged at and are trying to back up and keep distance. This is because the backwards walking speed is slightly slower than the forward walking speed.
>
> I think making this small change could solve alot of the debate that goes around regarding CQC in Reach, all without having to remove the (insane) melee lunge that people seem to like.
>
> Do you think this should be considered for future titles?

There’s nothing wrong with the old reach melee system, tell me: if there was someone up close to you and it takes 8 seconds to kill with an AR, but only 4 to kill with melee, which would you choose? be intelligent. The only weapons you would use up close in a fight would be a shotgun or energy sword, otherwise its a melee fight.

Melee combat in Reach is terrible, and it has been this way since Halo 3. Melee combat should be useful when you’re behind somebody, or when you’re so close to them that it’s a better alternative to using your weapon (ie. when you’re a foot away, not 10). I believe that a simple fix to melee would be to reduce, if not completely remove, the lunge from it, similar to what we had in Halo 1 and Halo 2, yet keep the strength of it or reduce it to a 3 hit kill.

That way, it won’t be useless, though it won’t be frustratingly powerful either.

> > I’m of the opinion that melee combat in Reach is far too substantial. Far too many of the deaths that I consider frustrating are due to melee deaths. Every other time I die, I can attribute it to some sort of skill or tactical thinking by my opponent… but not with pummels. The TU improved the problem with bleedthrough, but resurrected alot of the AR-charge-melee mentality that plagued Halo 3.
> >
> > For those of you who may prefer a large melee lunge, consider an alternative solution: adjust movement so that players can walk backwards as fast as they walk forwards.
> >
> > As it stands, you have no chance of avoiding a mutual melee if you’re being charged at and are trying to back up and keep distance. This is because the backwards walking speed is slightly slower than the forward walking speed.
> >
> > I think making this small change could solve alot of the debate that goes around regarding CQC in Reach, all without having to remove the (insane) melee lunge that people seem to like.
> >
> > Do you think this should be considered for future titles?
>
> There’s nothing wrong with the old reach melee system, tell me: if there was someone up close to you and it takes 8 seconds to kill with an AR, but only 4 to kill with melee, which would you choose? be intelligent. The only weapons you would use up close in a fight would be a shotgun or energy sword, otherwise its a melee fight.

Yep so getting the first shot doesn’t matter any more. You both get to die by trading kills unlike the other Halo games. You got 4 DMR shots into a guy? That’s nice. You still get to die.

IMO if I have ANY shields left a melee hit should never kill me.

> IMO if I have ANY shields left a melee hit should never kill me.

Even from the back?

> > > I’m of the opinion that melee combat in Reach is far too substantial. Far too many of the deaths that I consider frustrating are due to melee deaths. Every other time I die, I can attribute it to some sort of skill or tactical thinking by my opponent… but not with pummels. The TU improved the problem with bleedthrough, but resurrected alot of the AR-charge-melee mentality that plagued Halo 3.
> > >
> > > For those of you who may prefer a large melee lunge, consider an alternative solution: adjust movement so that players can walk backwards as fast as they walk forwards.
> > >
> > > As it stands, you have no chance of avoiding a mutual melee if you’re being charged at and are trying to back up and keep distance. This is because the backwards walking speed is slightly slower than the forward walking speed.
> > >
> > > I think making this small change could solve alot of the debate that goes around regarding CQC in Reach, all without having to remove the (insane) melee lunge that people seem to like.
> > >
> > > Do you think this should be considered for future titles?
> >
> > There’s nothing wrong with the old reach melee system, tell me: if there was someone up close to you and it takes 8 seconds to kill with an AR, but only 4 to kill with melee, which would you choose? be intelligent. The only weapons you would use up close in a fight would be a shotgun or energy sword, otherwise its a melee fight.
>
> Yep so getting the first shot doesn’t matter any more. You both get to die by trading kills unlike the other Halo games. You got 4 DMR shots into a guy? That’s nice. You still get to die.

I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at here, Are you reffering to how sometimes when you melee at the same time you both die? if so, I see no real solution to that. And honestly if you’re gonna use a precision weapon at that range (melee range) you do deserve to die.

> > > > I’m of the opinion that melee combat in Reach is far too substantial. Far too many of the deaths that I consider frustrating are due to melee deaths. Every other time I die, I can attribute it to some sort of skill or tactical thinking by my opponent… but not with pummels. The TU improved the problem with bleedthrough, but resurrected alot of the AR-charge-melee mentality that plagued Halo 3.
> > > >
> > > > For those of you who may prefer a large melee lunge, consider an alternative solution: adjust movement so that players can walk backwards as fast as they walk forwards.
> > > >
> > > > As it stands, you have no chance of avoiding a mutual melee if you’re being charged at and are trying to back up and keep distance. This is because the backwards walking speed is slightly slower than the forward walking speed.
> > > >
> > > > I think making this small change could solve alot of the debate that goes around regarding CQC in Reach, all without having to remove the (insane) melee lunge that people seem to like.
> > > >
> > > > Do you think this should be considered for future titles?
> > >
> > > There’s nothing wrong with the old reach melee system, tell me: if there was someone up close to you and it takes 8 seconds to kill with an AR, but only 4 to kill with melee, which would you choose? be intelligent. The only weapons you would use up close in a fight would be a shotgun or energy sword, otherwise its a melee fight.
> >
> > Yep so getting the first shot doesn’t matter any more. You both get to die by trading kills unlike the other Halo games. You got 4 DMR shots into a guy? That’s nice. You still get to die.
>
> I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at here, Are you reffering to how sometimes when you melee at the same time you both die? if so, I see no real solution to that. And honestly if you’re gonna use a precision weapon at that range (melee range) you do deserve to die.

I’ll ignore your ridiculous weapon range statement. Anyway.

Lets say you use any weapon to make someone almost oneshot. They hit you, you return the favor.

In every other Halo game, the person who was already hurt would die. Hence giving people who shoot first a sensible advantage.

However in Reach, both people go one shot, and both people melee again and die by trading kills. This happens because there is no bleed through. Making double melees better than using your gun, unlike other Halo games and even reducing the skill gap.

I don’t see how anyone who has played past Halo games and even just payed attention slightly while playing Reach doesn’t realize this.

> I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at here, Are you reffering to how sometimes when you melee at the same time you both die? if so, I see no real solution to that. And honestly if you’re gonna use a precision weapon at that range (melee range) you do deserve to die.

He’s getting at the fact that the melee lunge and auto-aim is much too strong. Yeah, melee combat has its place. But as it stands, a melee attack should not be equally as effective as a shotgun.

The problem is, melee attacks in Reach are strong enough to be used as effective substitutes to guns for anything that qualifies as “close-range”. Just go into a game of team slayer, and at the end of the game you will find that 3-5 people had a ToD of melee.

> > I’m not entirely sure what you’re getting at here, Are you reffering to how sometimes when you melee at the same time you both die? if so, I see no real solution to that. And honestly if you’re gonna use a precision weapon at that range (melee range) you do deserve to die.
>
> He’s getting at the fact that the melee lunge and auto-aim is much too strong. Yeah, melee combat has its place. But as it stands, a melee attack should not be equally as effective as a shotgun.
>
> The problem is, melee attacks in Reach are strong enough to be used as effective substitutes to guns for anything that qualifies as “close-range”. Just go into a game of team slayer, and at the end of the game you will find that 3-5 people had a ToD of melee.

Read the post just above that^

Melee is better than just about every CQC weapon except the Shotgun, especially with sword and Hammer block. It makes the AR and Plasma Repeater useless, etc.

> Read the post just above that^
>
> Melee is better than just about every CQC weapon except the Shotgun, especially with sword and Hammer block. It makes the AR and Plasma Repeater useless, etc.

Apologies, seems you posted that in the time it took me to compose my own reply.

Although I guess there isn’t much to say in response. You’re quite right - the AR is only used because people spawn with it, and the plasma repeater is a complete joke. But I guess what I’m saying is… I think it’s too bad that this is the case. A fully automatic assault rifle from the 26th century should be a more effective combat tool than somebody’s elbow.

But it sounds like we’re now discussing shield bleed-through, which I am a major supporter of. My point was, melee attacks shouldn’t be as easy to use as they are. The lunge has an effective range that exceeds the shotgun, and the auto-aim is the strongest you’ll find out of any weapon in the game.