Max Hoberman explains why Halo 3s matchmaking was so good, 343 follow his example

Max Hoberman explains why Halo 2 and 3s matchmaking was so good ans 343 needs to follow his example. Sweating every game is not fun nore should be the norm especially in social matches.

https://twitter.com/MaxHoberman/status/1502633023497555974?t=ViUo5StUzwUR5JiM7Tqjcg&s=19

11 Likes

He is talking about ranked and if i understand him correct, he is right: SBMM/MMR should not be in ranked.
SBMM/MMR is something for socials, to make it so everybody gets matches with a fighting chance.

Ranked should just put you against other players with the same rank. If you win you grind up, if you loose you go down.

MMR is even bad for ranked, because if your rank/CSR reaches you MMR, you basicly have nothing to fight for, because the system will try to put you down to your MMR again. It will just cause people to stop playing ranked when they think they reached that point.

I only get if they use MMR for the placement matches (so that ‘noobs’ in the lower tiers dont have to fight very skilled players that are starting their ranked grind every time), but after that it should play no role anymore. Just matches with bronze vs bronze, silver vs silver, gold vs gold, etc.

1 Like

In his followup replies to himself and others. I think its pretty clear hes refering to both.

3 Likes

This type of ranked sorting is very slow… and creates a lot of uneven matches early.

If you have ELO type systems that can work out your rank faster - why wouldn’t you use it?

Ultimately you are still going to end up at the same rank?

A Diamond 5 in one system is ultimately the same as a Diamond 5 in the other. Just that one can get you there in less than 50 games.

You are fighting to maintain or improve your rank.

It’s not the MMR that’s keeping you at your rank - it’s your skill level. You have stopped beating teams ranked above you so you don’t go up anymore.

It’s the same as the win/loss grind. When you reach your actual rank you pretty much just win 50% of your games - so you stop going up. Just the same. The only thing stopping you going up any further is your skill ceiling.

I don’t get the difference?

So just use TrueSkill and get their faster. Without the 100’s of uneven games. And a lot less Smurfs.

I agree that there needs to be a lot tighter range of ranks. These groups trying to manipulate the system (Onyx players squadding up with Silvers) are not good.

When the game loses most of its players due to its current ranking system then any rank sorting will be slow. A good ranked system that might be slow is better then a imbalanced ranked system that alienates more players.

Also H3s ranked system would then try to rank you with closer ranked players if you set it that way. Meaning it would rank you with a few ranks higher and a few ranks lower if it was having trouble matching you initially.

4 Likes

Faster is not always better

7 Likes

Ranking is contentious. There are always going to be disgruntled players who think that the system is against them. We’ve seen it all the way back to Halo 2 (yes, shock horror, there was plenty of debate on the pros and cons back then to).

Infinite has far more pressing concerns that are affecting retention than ranking.

First up - it would be great to have the option of setting balanced vs connection times. I thought it worked well in Halo 5.

And developers have learnt a lot since Halo 3. They know they need to match make in a slightly unbalanced fashion to give players an opportunity to rank up (or down). And they have much better control over the MMR curves now thanks to seasons and placement (which are the opposite of Halo 3’s rank locking problem).

I haven’t liked Halo’s ranking systems in a very long time. Vastly preferred 1-50 back in the day. Max did it right.

2 Likes

I think it definitely needs some tweeks, but i would rather have a MMR/CSR more akin to H5 and HI than H3.

Don’t get me wrong, I also loved H3’s ranked grind. But its system also had a lot of flaws, and I don’t think we should ignore that.

One thing I like about MMR/CSR is that you don’t improve your rank through only grinding. You improve your rank by actually improving your skills (opening strats, timing attacks on power weapons, dialing in uppit rotations on strongholds and stockpile, etc.)

Perhaps

1 Like

like two months or so ago the guy said he was somewhat new to halo, now he’s referencing H2’s matchmaking like he’s played since then

PS i whish PM’s worked

4 Likes

Social doesn’t need mmr or any skill matching. It should just match based on party size. It’s meant to be fun. It’s not fun facing super sweats in a casual mode.

2 Likes

He’s probably also the one who created the Ranked Challenges for that one week last year. You all know the one.

1 Like

I agree, halo 3 matchamking was fantastic

Yup. In OG Halo 3 you could actually see it looking for players around your rank. Then both the minimum and maximum ranks it will search for will increase if it’s having trouble finding players.

Example. If your rank is 23, it might try searching for a minimum rank of 20 and a maximum of 25. If it can’t find anyone, it will start searching for a minimum rank of 15 and maximum of 30. And from my experience, this is by far a WAAAAY better ranking system than what I’ve been dealing with in H5 and HI (can’t say much about H4. I ended up returning it a week after buying it. Wasn’t a fan at all lol)

2 Likes

If only Max could have also stopped the disgraceful number of derankers and smurfs.

For me it comes down to personal preference. I’d rather play against players my own skill after 2 games. I don’t see the point of playing 50+ games against jobbers to start matchmaking with players of my own skill level.

1-50 was probably a better system for the casual player especially as it was tied to global rank progression in Halo 3. It was a huge deal for a Major to finally hit 35 in one playlist to grow in rank.

I don’t like the Halo 3 system when compared to the Halo 5/Infinite system but that’s because I don’t care about grinding rank, I just want very close and competitive games which I get significantly more frequently than I ever did in Halo 2 or Halo 3.

1 Like

Just play MCC. Alot better then infinite

i dont agree. balanced matches are great. The problem is, 343’s matchmaking system doesnt achieve it and screws someone over. Its not only just the systems fault either. How your gameplay is designed impacts how well matchmaking works.

Just read a comment from mint blitz. he has a high mmr, however sometimes he will not try, hop in a vehicle, get less kills and then his team gets destroyed because he’s not being the terminator the game expects him to be. My solution to that is to limit how much he can be a terminator in btb. Mark people like mint blitz as points of interests when they are completely abusing the game farming less skilled unaware players. those people getting farmed will then fight back against mint blitz. I’m sure even mint blitz would like that challenge and could even lead to insane clips for him. reward him for being marked with extra xp and give extra xp to the person that kills mint blitz

IMO, yes, the ELO system works out your MMR faster, but currently your CSR lags behind for far too long. Especially for Onyx MMRs, you end up playing in Average Onyx MMR lobbies through your ENTIRE Diamond grind and it is way too much a slog for casual players (using casual here as a time/session kind of casual, not skill based). One of the main reasons I’ve stopped playing this game. Its too much of a time commitment. That and countless other issues.

The real problem that mmr cover social and even bot boot camp, which means yo can deflate mmr so you rank faster and get easy fights.

I think ability to offset mmr in your favor should be fixed so each play list should have its own mmr.