Matchmaking system Feedback for 343i

343i,

Things appear to be improving on the Matchmaking side in the MasterChief Collection and that’s definitely positive news; however, I would like to point out that I still think there is a fundamental flaw with regards to how the matchmaking system works within the MasterChief Collection and I fear in future titles. When sessions are being created and the lobby becomes locked-in with even numbers of players (which should be all the time, but it isn’t) all to often someone ends up quitting or gets dropped out prior to the match’s start or even in the early goings of the game and that particular problem has always been the biggest culprit to a declining online gaming experience with many of the past Halo titles (2, 3 & Reach) for me specifically. It’s why I rejoiced when Halo 4 was announced (back during the lead-up to its release) to include a Join-in-Progress (JIP) system as I had hoped that it would mean there’d be fewer games where I felt like I was simply wasting my time. Unfortunately, that particular JIP system (in Halo 4) required lots of refinement and/or tweaking over time and more specifically per playlist to make it even somewhat acceptable – another big part of its problem was linked directly to Halo 4’s poor networking system and a console that probably wasn’t powerful enough to handle what the game was trying to do. Honestly, that JIP system never had a chance at being considered ideal because it was paired with a matchmaking system that would progress from “searching for players” to “creating match sessions” when there were uneven teams. By allowing Halo 4’s matchmaking system to basically bank on the JIP system itself to provide even teams on the fly (which I get as helping to keep the matchmaking search times down) a core element of the arena-based gameplay (balanced starts) and in turn the online gaming experience were also hurt. I’m hoping that you guys at 343i do realize that the matchmaking search system in the MasterChief Collection and more importantly future Halo titles (Halo 5 and beyond) first and foremost need to prevent sessions moving from the player-search aspect to the loading-match aspect when teams are uneven. Also, in Halo 5’s case I hope that a limited JIP system will indeed be incorporated, but one that’s not solely relied or depended on for ensuring balanced teams are created on the fly like in Halo 4. IMO, a JIP system needs to exist in all Halo games but only in a very limited fashion. The matchmaking system should halt the match’s start if someone were to drop out during the loading match process until a replacement player or players are found. A limited JIP system simply needs to be counted on for replacing a player or players who get dropped for whatever reason during first few minutes of action in a team based game (solo and eSport games need not have an active JIP once the match actually begins). Anyways, after that short period of time the JIP service is no longer needed and only serves as a deterrent in regards to the online experience because nobody prefers joining a game already in progress. I implore you 343i to heed this advice and feedback; though, I’m not sure how realistic it would be to implement something like this in the MCC I nevertheless do remain hopeful for Halo 5 and future titles to include a limited and very specific JIP system.

Thanks,
Luke

IMO what they should focus on is getting the ranks nailed down right and adding more diverse playlists, as those are the two main things leading to the quitting epidemic. Without Ranks there is no reason for someone to play a game type or map they don’t want to, because the game doesn’t matter (and there is zero penalty for quitting a match). And to that end, the lack of playlists leads to a high probability that one of the 8 players won’t like what is chosen. For example, I will never be convinced that there should be any starting weapon besides the Battle Rifle, so when I’m forced to play these games with an SMG start, which is an utterly useless weapon (or god forbid the plasma rifle on midship) then it is very hard to want to stay in that game, and if I get SMG’s too often, I might just quit the next one without even trying because there’s no point.

I really dislike the idea of JIP, at least for ranked playlists simply because the beginning of a match is too crucial to miss any amount of time. So, If I’m searching solo, and get put into a Shrine/Sanc game already in progress, and the enemy has a 5 kill lead, 2 snipers, and rockets, then I’m just going to lose rank because I wasn’t there at the start, and it wouldn’t help out the players that started the game unbalanced either so there’s no point.

tl;dr - If they can fix ranks and broaden the playlists so people can play what there like, at their own skill level, I have no doubt quitting will decrease by about 90%, and I don’t think that number is exaggerated either.

> 2533274800119759;2:
> IMO what they should focus on is getting the ranks nailed down right and adding more diverse playlists, as those are the two main things leading to the quitting epidemic. Without Ranks there is no reason for someone to play a game type or map they don’t want to, because the game doesn’t matter (and there is zero penalty for quitting a match). And to that end, the lack of playlists leads to a high probability that one of the 8 players won’t like what is chosen. For example, I will never be convinced that there should be any starting weapon besides the Battle Rifle, so when I’m forced to play these games with an SMG start, which is an utterly useless weapon (or god forbid the plasma rifle on midship) then it is very hard to want to stay in that game, and if I get SMG’s too often, I might just quit the next one without even trying because there’s no point.
>
> I really dislike the idea of JIP, at least for ranked playlists simply because the beginning of a match is too crucial to miss any amount of time. So, If I’m searching solo, and get put into a Shrine/Sanc game already in progress, and the enemy has a 5 kill lead, 2 snipers, and rockets, then I’m just going to lose rank because I wasn’t there at the start, and it wouldn’t help out the players that started the game unbalanced either so there’s no point.
>
> tl;dr - If they can fix ranks and broaden the playlists so people can play what there like, at their own skill level, I have no doubt quitting will decrease by about 90%, and I don’t think that number is exaggerated either.

I appreciate the feedback (I really do) but the argument you make while presenting some honest issues also somewhat dismisses some of the important and very specific comments I made within my feedback plus your statement assumes certain things (which I will explain further) to be somewhat gospel-like and I have to disagree with aspects of that too; not-to-mention, even though I didn’t mention it there are additional details that should have been noted with the inclusion of a limited JIP system.

First off, let me address some of the important and very specific comments I made within my initial post that I feel got overlooked or outright dismissed by you (no offense taken btw). You make this statement, “I really dislike the idea of JIP, at least for ranked playlists simply because the beginning of a match is too crucial to miss any amount of time” and right there I get that your immediate dislike for the idea of JIP caused you to gloss over some of the finer points I was making within my message; for example, after my criticizing of how Halo 4 incorporated JIP into it’s matchmaking system I went on to explain that I hoped 343i realized that the matchmaking search system itself first and foremost needed to prevent sessions moving from the player-search aspect to the loading-match aspect when there would be uneven teams (Halo 4 was guilty of that because the overall system was depending on the JIP aspect to balance out the teams after the fact and that’s were that particular JIP system gets most of it’s backlash from). To summarize what I was trying to get at in my message is to say that I agree with your comment about the beginning of a match being crucial (especially, with regards to a FPS that’s heavily characterized by its arena-based gameplay), but the best way to address that particular problem is to ensure that the search process itself doesn’t end until even teams are ensured and in case something were to happen during the match’s loading process where someone or even multiple people were to get dropped for whatever reason then that loading process should get halted until replacements could be found. Of course, that introduces other annoyances such as likely longer search times and a potential for multiple match loading delays (due to halts for player replacement) among who knows what else, but I think most can agree that having balanced (at least in the form of a equal number of players on each team) is important.

Secondly, your statement makes some interesting assumptions based on your own personal perception, but how honest is that perception with regards to the majority of players playing the game? Your opinion states that the two biggest culprits of causing players to quit matches is due to the game not having visible playlist ranks as well as lacking diverse playlists; however, the first point is making the assumption that all or most players care passionately enough about their playlist rankings to impact their decision-making with regards to quitting matches. To be honest, I don’t think that the majority of players care as passionately about their playlist ranks as you or myself might. I don’t think the impact of quitting (on their ranks) factors into their thought process much when deciding if it’s worth their time to stick around verses moving onto something else. I do wish that the passion someone such as yourself or myself might have for their playlist rank was going to be the same for everyone else because lessening the impact of quitting would indeed be much easier to deal with, but alas it’s not very probable nor is the impact of quitting so easily lessened. Also, I’d like to note that playlist rankings are not the sole representation of a player true skill nor is it the backbone of how the matchmaking system pairs players – Microsoft’s Bayesian ranking algorithm (it’s TrueSkill system) is in fact the backbone of Xbox’s and Halo’s matchmaking system (Halo’s ranks are more or less a visual representation of playlist experience and success per different levels of Microsoft’s TrueSkill system - I think many people are often confused by this)

You mention improving the playlist diversity as another tool for lessening the impact of quitters and to this I also agree 100%, but I do believe there are critical issues to consider with regards to this solution as improving the diversity by increasing the number of playlists also acts as a double edged sword in a way. Ideally, any game would have it’s largest and most diverse playlist offering at launch so that the game could take advantage of it’s likely largest population to fill all the playlists and provide quality skill pairings regardless to which playlist was chosen by a player; however, in the MasterChief Collection’s case that opportunity has past us by and it also came with extreme online problems so even if it had a wider and more diverse option of playlists players still nevertheless wouldn’t have been able to take advantage of the offering. Now as the game’s population count begins to finally balance out and eventually settle-in with a steady but minor decline over time the developers need to calculate how best to approximate a diverse offering without causing a major dilution to the remaining population as to negatively harm the capability of the matchmaking system’s skill-based pairing ability. Anyways, as of right now the MCC is still trying to iron out a ton of problems so until those things are improved vastly I think increasing the playlist diversity will play second fiddle.

Lastly, some additional details as to how a JIP system can be ideally incorporated to best serve the online experience. When a player finds themselves being JIP’d into a match there should be specific rules in place which indicate how that player’s record and rank can be impacted. I’d love to go onto detail on what those rules should be, but I’m maxing out the text limit of this post.

I see what you’re saying for the most part, and without getting into too many details of your proposal, I could be on board with JIP if it had a different impact on your rank (without putting too much thought or backing into it I’d say just lessen the penalty of losing drastically).

You’re also right I made several assumptions but I’d like to make my point clearer on at least some of them.

With regards to ranks, I know not everyone cares as much as I might. I am making the assumption that the people who still don’t care about rank, and quit often, won’t make it up into the ranks of those that do care. So while there will be a period of the level “grind” that’s sub-optimal due to quitters, I still believe if you’re good enough you’ll break those ranks and get into where people care enough to at least play their games. Is it an accurate assumption? In my personal experience, yes, I’ve never had a huge problem with quitters back in my H2 and H3 days, whereas now it’s literally every other game, at least.

I agree they missed their window to have a ton of playlists, but current lists simply isn’t enough for the diversity of the population. Assuming they get matchmaking to a proper state, search times still aren’t that bad even in low population lists (again speaking only from personal experience). Even in the final months before MCC I could jump on my 360 and find a ranked game in a playlist of 500-100 people within about 5 minutes max, which is a long wait time, but considering the low population and factoring in level differences within that population it seems pretty reasonable.

Also, I know they try to use some true skill system (which clearly is also not working), but if they put level limitations on the searches like they’ve had in the past I don’t think that part will matter. Assuming they go back to games only being within + or - 10 of your current level, which I think is ideal and I don’t know why they wouldn’t, then it’ll all work out the same.

Yes I agree 100% if anyone drops at any moment before the map begins loading it should definitely cancel the game.

My final assumption is that everything is working correctly. I firmly believe that if they fix the ranking system and team balance etc, that adding ranks and a few more playlists will drastically decrease the quitting, or at least contain it to the lower level people who don’t care.

> 2533274800119759;4:
> With regards to ranks, I know not everyone cares as much as I might. I am making the assumption that the people who still don’t care about rank, and quit often, won’t make it up into the ranks of those that do care. So while there will be a period of the level “grind” that’s sub-optimal due to quitters, I still believe if you’re good enough you’ll break those ranks and get into where people care enough to at least play their games. Is it an accurate assumption?
>
> In my personal experience, yes, I’ve never had a huge problem with quitters back in my H2 and H3 days, whereas now it’s literally every other game, at least.

I would indeed agree with that assumption with regards to the upper percentile of skill-based players. Also, with regards to the MasterChief Collection in particular quitting is occurring for additional reasons that are likely linked directly to the game’s online issues; therefore, once these issues get further and further ironed out I’m hopeful that some of the necessary quitting will regress too.

My personal experiences with Halo 2 and Halo 3 did include major annoyances with quitters, but more so with Halo 3 towards the back-end of its’ limelight years. During Halo 2 there wasn’t anything really better to play online so many people simply stuck it out more often than not. I dare even say that because of that (nothing better to play) there was a greater sense of pride to one’s stats and record due to Halo being the definitive game to play online (especially for a FPS on a console) so like I said… what else was someone going to go play instead if they quit to often? Anyways, that’s also where the effectiveness of the ban-hammer and penalty system really came into play. It was a rare and special time in our gaming culture that likely we will never see repeated as conditions had to be just right. The biggest issue I had with Halo 2 came from the hacking and cheating that was rampant for a while (lag switches and hacked consoles plagued the game to the point where it was damn near impossible to play for a period of time – I can recall games where I simply spawned in the sky and died instantly over and over and over again, but I refused to quit so I’d instead walk away and come back later to ensure I reported the opponents for cheating and talked trash to them during the post game carnage report).

Halo 3 started out in a similar way with regards to the quitting, but I’d argue that since the atmosphere of competition for a gamer’s time online altered drastically (there were a lot more quality games to be played and spend time with) that many players didn’t get or have the same sense of pride that they once use to have and so that amount of quitting began to increase. Over time I started having a real problem with finding enjoyment with the way Halo’s matchmaking system operated. Every time someone dropped out last minute before the game started or even in the early goings of a game it often left me feeling like I was just wasting of my time (which had become more precious to me too as I had new responsibilities and whatnot to occupy my time). Due to balance being so crucial in an arena-based game and since there was no possible way of getting any semblance of balance back after someone or multiple people dropped out of the match I myself was often left debating whether or not I should quit too. I got banned a few times strictly due to leaving matches (usually about halfway through after getting thoroughly -Yoink!- on for some time) that were unbalanced either before they began or in the early goings and that frustration led me to find time with other quality first person shooters as well as other games in general to offset my time with Halo.