matchmaking is ruined

Games Other Halo
82

> Against human opponent there are no easier or harder gametypes, just easier and harder opponents.

Whatttttt???

There are obviously harder gametypes than others. Infinity being an easier one because of the many crutches it provides. There becomes less user input involved with playing the game making it so there is a lowered amount of skill required to become successful.

> I know that for competitve player better gametypes are these with less factors, so pure skill gap is more visible, but calling these gametypes “harder” is weird, since <mark>they’re much easier to understand</mark> and embrace.

How are competitive settings much easier to understand than Infinity slayer. There are more variables that the player is required to know of and deal with in competitive setting than infinity.

For insistence there is more emphasis on understanding the map with competive setting than infinity since there isn’t radar so you must

Know frequent paths to predict players.
Obscure routes/jumps to juke, avoid the enemy.
Know Weapon Spawns
Know Weapon Spawn Times
Know Call outs

What is the basis of this opinion that competitive settings are easier to understand? How many times have you even played in the competitive playlist like Halo 2 Hardcore, Halo 3 and reaches MLG or even Halo 4’s Throwdown?

83

> Utter nonsense

So what you’re complaining about is that 343 took your crutches from you?

84

> Whatttttt???
>
> There are obviously harder gametypes than others. Infinity being an easier one because of the many crutches it provides. There becomes less user input involved with playing the game making it so there is a lowered amount of skill required to become successful.

I don’t understand how do you need lower amount of skill with using e.g. AA when your opponent can do the same thing as you.

> How are competitive settings much easier to understand than Infinity slayer. There are more variables that the player is required to know of and deal with in competitive setting than infinity.
>
> For insistence there is more emphasis on understanding the map with competive setting than infinity since there isn’t radar so you must
>
> Know frequent paths to predict players.
> Obscure routes/jumps to juke, avoid the enemy.
> Know Weapon Spawns
> Know Weapon Spawn Times
> Know Call outs
>
> What is the basis of this opinion that competitive settings are easier to understand? How many times have you even played in the competitive playlist like Halo 2 Hardcore, Halo 3 and reaches MLG or even Halo 4’s Throwdown?

Weapon spawns isn’t some kind of secret knowledge that separates elite from casuals. It’s something most people will know just after few matches on new map. Just like understanding of map’s basics. Better players are able to beat not as talented no matter if it’s Infinity or Pro or Throwdown. They will use their knowlegde about map’s tricks and they will use ther skill same way.

When you say that I should be feel more “pro” when someone’s taking away my custom loadouts (something I’ve been tweaking and learning for last few months), then sorry, but I don’t. I just feel like I’ve been robbed.

85

> When you say that I should be feel more “pro” when someone’s taking away my custom loadouts (something I’ve been tweaking and learning for last few months), then sorry, but I don’t. <mark>I just feel like I’ve been robbed</mark>.

Join the club. Infinity robbed us of a balanced, playable, completely enjoyable Halo experience.

86

> > When you say that I should be feel more “pro” when someone’s taking away my custom loadouts (something I’ve been tweaking and learning for last few months), then sorry, but I don’t. <mark>I just feel like I’ve been robbed</mark>.
>
> Join the club. Infinity robbed us of a balanced, playable, completely enjoyable Halo experience.

You still have your “competitive” playlist in Halo 4 and previous games playable and uncorrupted by this random filth you’re hating (or at least you could still have your Slayer Pro playlist if there wasn’t so few of you). I’m with Halo 4 just for Infinity setting, for I’ve enough of Halo 3 or Reach.

87

Edited by Moderator - Please do not post spam.

*Original post, click at your own discretion.

> > > When you say that I should be feel more “pro” when someone’s taking away my custom loadouts (something I’ve been tweaking and learning for last few months), then sorry, but I don’t. <mark>I just feel like I’ve been robbed</mark>.
> >
> > Join the club. Infinity robbed us of a balanced, playable, completely enjoyable Halo experience.
>
> You still have your “competitive” playlist in Halo 4 and previous games playable and uncorrupted by this random filth you’re hating (or at least you could still have your Slayer Pro playlist if there wasn’t so few of you). I’m with Halo 4 just for Infinity setting, for I’ve enough of Halo 3 or Reach.

How many thanks does your OT have compared to the second post?

Heres a little gem I just posted in a another thread:

"Howza 'bout you pick one of the two out of three Infinity Slayer options and let the majority of “classic” Halo/Pro/Balanced supporters enjoy the gift 343 has given us?

The pain we’ve endured for months is incomparable to the minuscule inconvenience of you having to play a Pro game once in a while or, as mentioned above, back out of a pro “Pro” lobby and try again. GASP!

We had no classic playlist to play forever and now you whiners can’t share a playlist with us? Some people are unbelievable and selfish."

88

> How many thanks does your OT have compared to the second post?

It’s not about thanks and about this forum. It’s about Infinity playlist.

89

> I don’t understand how do you need lower amount of skill with using e.g. AA when your opponent can do the same thing as you.

The issue is things like AA’s do not have a skill curve proportionate to how effective they are. For instance the sniper is the strongest weapon in the game. It can kill from any distance in one shot. However to balance this face it is the hardest gun to aim and has steep skill curve. As something becomes more useful or effective the difficulty it takes to use has to rise. Cammo for instance. On larger maps it is the most powerful AA, allowing people to sit back in a position that other wise may not be ideal because of cover, lines of sight or other factors and remain complete concealed. All you have to do then is wait to engage someone when you have the absolute advantage. Is this an effective tactic? YES. Does it’s have the the skill requirement to justifies it effectiveness? NO. With AA’s skill becomes less and less necessary to be successful. Is that a bad thing I my eyes yes, it may be different in others because that is an opinion. But saying the current AA’s we have are basically get out of jail free cards is a fact.

> Weapon spawns isn’t some kind of secret knowledge that separates elite from casuals. It’s something most people will know just after few matches on new map. Just like understanding of map’s basics.

No knowledge of weapons locations and times are not that difficult to obtain(Which is my argument for why they should be static weapon spawns without waypoints from the beginning) But being able to effectively implement that knowledge into the game in another matter entirely. I creates another layer of skill and adds to the mental part of the game. With infinity there is no longer that depth in gameplay, which is why people say infinity is dumb down Halo.

> Better players are able to beat not as talented no matter if it’s Infinity or Pro or Throwdown. They will use their knowlegde about map’s tricks and they will use ther skill same way.

Yes better players will always beat out lesser players. But the issue is how close the games are and what happens when two even teams play.

With infinity if two even teams play more times than no the game is won off of who go luckier. If a game is 49-49 and one team gets an incineration cannon drop at their feet how is that fair? How did that team deserve to win? How is that fun for the other team who lost because of randomness?

When lesser players play good players infinity tends to favor them(even though they will still most likely lose) because the randomness and many indications lessen the value of the knowledge the better player has. Shrinking the skill gap. No mater how much I know of the game I cannot predict a player having an OS in his back pocket from his personal OD, nor can I predict what is the likely weapon a person has and how I should engage them because the weapon that play has is completely random.

> When you say that I should be feel more “pro” when someone’s taking away my custom loadouts (something I’ve been tweaking and learning for last few months), then sorry, but I don’t. I just feel like I’ve been robbed.

That’s your opinion that you have been robbed, especially when infinity is still an option for you to play. But to say that in Halo 4 loadouts bring competitive balance or encourages skill is utterly false. Being able to spawn with a pocket shotgun that is almost guaranteed free kills when paired paired with radar requires very little talent or knowledge.

90

> The issue is things like AA’s do not have a skill curve proportionate to how effective they are. For instance the sniper is the strongest weapon in the game. It can kill from any distance in one shot. However to balance this face it is the hardest gun to aim and has steep skill curve. As something becomes more useful or effective the difficulty it takes to use has to rise. Cammo for instance. On larger maps it is the most powerful AA, allowing people to sit back in a position that other wise may not be ideal because of cover, lines of sight or other factors and remain complete concealed. All you have to do then is wait to engage someone when you have the absolute advantage. Is this an effective tactic? YES. Does it’s have the the skill requirement to justifies it effectiveness? NO. With AA’s skill becomes less and less necessary to be successful. Is that a bad thing I my eyes yes, it may be different in others because that is an opinion. But saying the current AA’s we have are basically get out of jail free cards is a fact.

That’s the reason why 343i should take it’s time and efford for balancing issues with weapons and AA instead of running away from problem by focusing on making up another Throwdown or Pro settings. It’s been 7 months and they did nothing to overpowered DMR, and their fix of camo was laughtable. WTF are they doing all this time?

> No knowledge of weapons locations and times are not that difficult to obtain(Which is my argument for why they should be static weapon spawns without waypoints from the beginning) But being able to effectively implement that knowledge into the game in another matter entirely. I creates another layer of skill and adds to the mental part of the game. With infinity there is no longer that depth in gameplay, which is why people say infinity is dumb down Halo.

Actually ordnance system has it’s depth as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_3w9atAqY
We can argue which one is better, but that’s not the issue right now. Right now Infinity fans are being forced to throw out their custom loadouts for absolutely no reason.

> Yes better players will always beat out lesser players. But the issue is how close the games are and what happens when two even teams play.
>
> With infinity if two even teams play more times than no the game is won off of who go luckier. If a game is 49-49 and one team gets an incineration cannon drop at their feet how is that fair? How did that team deserve to win? How is that fun for the other team who lost because of randomness?

Situations like these are marginal. They’re not an issue for Infinity fans, since they are playing series of matches, where outcome of just one or two have no meaning. I’m not playing the match to win money prize, I’m playing match after match for having good time.

> That’s your opinion that you have been robbed, especially when infinity is still an option for you to play. But to say that in Halo 4 loadouts bring competitive balance or encourages skill is utterly false. Being able to spawn with a pocket shotgun that is almost guaranteed free kills when paired paired with radar requires very little talent or knowledge.

That’s not just my opinion here. Even Pro’s fans admits that it rarely passes the votings, so why is it taking place in voting options (place that belongs to more maps)? And when there’s Slayer Pro match beginning many people quits as soon as they find out, that they can’t use their custom loadouts. Once again, 343i should take care about balancing issues, not about how to force people to play rejected gametypes. It’s like burning the house, because we don’t like how it’s decorated.

91

I would have preferred a classic 4 vs. 4 Team Slayer with AR/Magnum starts and motion tracker, no loadouts and no Ordnance, but that’s just me.

Slayer Pro is the next best thing, so I’ll take it. It’s a damn sight better than all that randomness and unbalanced gameplay in IS! I do have a complaint though, putting a Pro gametype as a voting option in a primarily casual/social playlist was a mistake.

92

> That’s the reason why 343i should take it’s time and efford for balancing issues with weapons and AA instead of running away from problem by focusing on making up another Throwdown or Pro settings. It’s been 7 months and they did nothing to overpowered DMR, and their fix of camo was laughtable. WTF are they doing all this time?

Most of the issues that Halo 4 have are too difficult to fix in time. Most can’t be balanced and need to be taken out, like boltshot, plasma nades, plasma pistol or Camo, that would take a lot of coding from what 343 has said. Same goes for Sprint, De-scoping, dropping the flag.

The simple and time effecient solution is to go back and disign gameplay does away with all the gimmicks(aka infinity).

> Actually ordnance system has it’s depth as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_3w9atAqY
> We can argue which one is better, but that’s not the issue right now. Right now Infinity fans are being forced to throw out their custom loadouts for absolutely no reason.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That is the pinnacle of depth that OD has. Drop OS right when you are about to engage an enemy and making sure no one is around before you call down your other OD. Not very deep at all.

That is no way a supplement for:

-Weapon/power up timing
-The ability to dirty weapons(you probably don’t even know what this is)
-=the map movement created through static spawns
-The skills that come with obtaining those weapons wither it be knowing a faster route or simply out slaying the other team for it.

> Situations like these are marginal. They’re not an issue for Infinity fans, since they are playing series of matches, where outcome of just one or two have no meaning. I’m not playing the match to win money prize, I’m playing match after match for having good time.

Like I said before, <mark>the want to win is not exclusive to competitive players</mark>. Many people get screwed over by Infninity at least once a game. I know I do. Now does it always cost me the game? Not always but it has. The average player still wants to win games and when the out come of the game is out of their control it become extremely frustrating for them. One bad game can destroy a players experience. I have seen people get off Halo for an extended period of time just because they get so frustrated with something that happened in game. One reason you see so many people come on here and complain about getting paired with bad teammates. Does that mean they are competive and not casueal? NO.

Everyone wants to win. It just by how much they exert themselves which separates the casual gamer and the competitive. Competitive players will learn everything there is to a game, such as how to spawn trap, what is the ideal route, the best grenade placement. While causal games will just hop on and play MM. Both have the same goal to have fun and win games, but both go about doing so differently.

So why design a system that put these players in situations where their enjoyment is at risk because of randomness?

If I had it my way Infinity would be in action sack along with the other chaotic gametypes. But I am not 343 and I understand that there are those that do enjoy the cluster -Yoink- that is infinity.

> That’s not just my opinion here. Even Pro’s fans admits that it rarely passes the votings,

What fans are you talking about? I have been getting slayer pro 4 out of 5 times.

> so why is it taking place in voting options (place that belongs to more maps)? And when there’s Slayer Pro match beginning many people quits as soon as they find out, that they can’t use their custom loadouts. Once again, 343i should take care about balancing issues, not about how to force people to play rejected gametypes. It’s like burning the house, because we don’t like how it’s decorated.

You are greatly exaggerating how often people are quitting out of slayer pro.

Adding slayer pro to infinity is like burning down the house because the structure is not stable and going back to the drawing board and drawing a more secure building.

Slayer Pro from what people are saying(you have been reading it but are choosing to ignore it) is the start to the balancing solution they have been asking for. They may want a few changes like the addition of Automatics and radar, but the consensus is that Slayer Pro is a more balanced gametype than Infinity. Which also happens to be a fact.

93

> You are greatly exaggerating how often people are quitting out of slayer pro

It’s probably different at different CSR levels.

I gave myself a new rule today that I’d back out of all lobbys with all pro options and also if the first vote went to pro, but if I played a pro game I would not quit out unless someone else in my team quit first (previously I didn’t quit at all)

I’ve not yet finished a game of pro and I think I’ve started 4, possibly 3.

The best player on my team has quit every time.

It seems to be a way to stop you being able to move around the map and to give coordinated teams a massive advantage. All I can do in most of these games is hide in a corner with my back to a wall and hope someone walks by - I then have to go hide somewhere else as they’ll tell their teammates. Compare that to loading up promethean vision and motion detector and go and actually kill some people. (even with a KD that is probably around 0.8 in recent times)

I’ve tried not to whine and to be constructive, but the quit rate is huge in this game and you need your better players to give you any chance at all in pro if you’re a poor player.

Edit: Genuine question, but is aim assist turned down on these maps? I seem to be able to fill people with a clip of DMR and them not die. While that just sounds like an obvious “Noob, you’re not hitting them” - which has to be true - the same thing seems to kill people on slayer.

94

> Most of the issues that Halo 4 have are too difficult to fix in time. Most can’t be balanced and need to be taken out, like boltshot, plasma nades, plasma pistol or Camo, that would take a lot of coding from what 343 has said. Same goes for Sprint, De-scoping, dropping the flag.
>
> The simple and time effecient solution is to go back and disign gameplay does away with all the gimmicks(aka infinity).

Fast tweaks and adjustments nowadays are standard thing amongst video games. Do you think that Battlefield 3 would be any succesful if DICE instead of constant balancing things would just said: “sorry, there’s too many things to balance, so we’re ditching custom loadouts. From now on you can choose one of 4 fixed options.”

That’s basically what 343i did for vast majority of Infinity fans.

> That is the pinnacle of depth that OD has. Drop OS right when you are about to engage an enemy and making sure no one is around before you call down your other OD. Not very deep at all.

I knows how things worked because I was picking things from 1996, when Quake came out. I know the score. I’m not big fan of random ordnance, but I really don’t see much problem with it. At least it got rid of camping near weapon’s spawn points.

> Like I said before, the want to win is not exclusive to competitive players.

Of course not, but casual player prefers to play game more than they like winning. I would rather have 10 losts in Infinity Slayer than 10 wins in Slayer Pro.

> What fans are you talking about? I have been getting slayer pro 4 out of 5 times.

Guess you’re (un)lucky. When I last played Infinity playlist, literally no one was voting for Pro. Maybe now things changed, when many Infinity fans escaped from playlists (you can clearly see population drop and that one includes me).

> Slayer Pro from what people are saying(you have been reading it but are choosing to ignore it) is the start to the balancing solution they have been asking for. They may want a few changes like the addition of Automatics and radar, but the consensus is that Slayer Pro is a more balanced gametype than Infinity. Which also happens to be a fact.

Again, what happens to be a fact is that Slayer Pro playlist was taken down due to small population. Very, very small population.

95

i find this frightening and sad. the ONLY thing that matter OUGHT to be the game that you are in at that time.

now in halo 4 and to an extant in reach. it matter more about the menu with the commendations. no one cares about the game you playing becuase they are just playing to watch a number in the menu go up. it is REALLY sad.

that is why i LOVE the halo 3 ranking system SO much. you only get EXP for winning. as it ought to be.

if the outcome of one or two dont matter then WHY do ANY of the games you play matter?

as i have said before the “pro” settings are the closest thing to the game I want to play.

> Situations like these are marginal. They’re not an issue for Infinity fans, since they are playing series of matches, where outcome of just one or two <mark>have no meaning.</mark> I’m not playing the match to win money prize, I’m playing match after match for having good time.

96

> i find this frightening and sad. the ONLY thing that matter OUGHT to be the game that you are in at that time.
>
> now in halo 4 and to an extant in reach. it matter more about the menu with the commendations. no one cares about the game you playing becuase they are just playing to watch a number in the menu go up. it is REALLY sad.
>
> that is why i LOVE the halo 3 ranking system SO much. you only get EXP for winning. as it ought to be.
>
> if the outcome of one or two dont matter then WHY do ANY of the games you play matter?
>
>
> as i have said before the “pro” settings are the closest thing to the game I want to play.
>
[/quote]
Before you start how Infinity Slayer is bad because of randomness of ordnance… How many situations do you remember when ordnance really changed result of the match? Because I really cannot remember situation when I was winning, but then enemy got Incineration Cannon by accident and I lost entire match. I do however remember situation when I received powerweapon from killed enemy or when enemy killed me and took my powerweapon.