> 2533274839818445;54:
> > 2533274815533909;48:
> > or is it literally any party of any skill can be matched against any party of any skill? So for example, could a team of onyx/champs be put up against a team of Golds or something?
>
>
>
> > No, skill will play the same role as it always has. It will try and match parties of the same skill against each other.
>
> Well that’s good to hear. I’m glad it’ll try. I tried playing a few games yesterday with some guys I play with and all the matches weren’t bad so far minus 2-3 where we got destroyed. The team was clearly WAY better them us and we got them back to back games which I can’t stand and I knew would happen unfortunately 
As I side note, I wouldn’t be opposed to a rematch option though. That I think would be neat.
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> > 2533274815533909;48:
> > Also, since this means teams only play teams now, not only will wait times be crazy in some playlists…joy oh joy… but technically does this mean if there are no teams online a group of people won’t even find a match?? Again, I’m sorry but this news really makes me not want to even bother playing Halo until you either change it back to what it was, or until your new system is up.
>
>
>
> > The system is flexible on these points. Most playlists will probably have full parties try and find other full parties for around some period of time. After that, it will give up and allow them to play vs. non-full parties for players that have either:
> > - Not selected “Focused” OR - Waited just as long as the partyThis does mean full parties can get worse matches than before because by the time it gives up on finding a full party, that full party will accept a wider skill gap than before.
>
> Well this is also good to know, but also pretty crappie at the same time… Just so I’m clear, if you have the search parameter set to focused, you’ll always play against full teams and never non full parties?
>
>
> > 2533274815533909;48:
> > Oh, one more thing, this system across the board I’m assuming? as in Ranked, and Social? BTB will be terrible now if so. Hardly any full teams on here…
>
>
>
> > It will probably be the same in most playlists, except in Warzone if we allow 12-player fireteams again, we would only let them match ONLY other 12-player fireteams because the skill gap is just too big otherwise.
>
> I figured as much… part of me think maybe in social it shouldn’t be this way, but… I guess if your bringing your new system out in a month or so like you say, then whatever I guess right… It’s only a month. I very much look forward to seeing your new system and thanks again for clearing things up. Sorry if I over reacted a bit before, but as I said, I’m just passionate about my Halo. Started since Halo CE ( got it first month it was out!!) and been with it ever since. I always contribute Halo to getting me back into video games as after Sega (SEGA!!! lol) got out of the hardware business, I felt part of me died in a way, as I lost interested in gaming moreless as It was a HUGE part of my life (I know, sounds crazy, but I was with Sega from the master system) and Halo reignited that passion I had for gaming so it means a lot to me lol 
matchmaking is unfair. match is more harder
> 2533274868630257;59:
> Re: blocking
>
> It would be great if blocking someone prevented them from being on your team in matchmaking. I only ever block people for tking or intentionally running the flag the wrong way, and I’d love it if that meant I never had to deal with them on my team again.
>
> Allowing blocked players only on the opposing team would still prevent dodging matches. This might make it more difficult for toxic players who get blocked a lot to find matches, but that might not be such a bad thing.
I agree with this 100%. If I block or report someone it’s because they do things similar to what you mention or things like intentional team-shooting/nading, teabagging (I mean if the person is on my team and is teabagging me or our other teammates), or betrayals. In my opinion, I shouldn’t have to be punished by having to continue to play with them, especially on the same team.
This may be more of an Xbox issue than it is Halo, but I remember back when I was playing Halo 3 on the 360, you could prefer or avoid players. If you wanted to avoid them there was a list of options similar to what you’re given when you go to report someone on Xbox One. One of those options was “player skill”. I don’t remember if this whole preferingavoiding players was done in game or was through Xbox Live like reporting and blocking is now, but I wonder if something like that might help this dodging issue. Kinda like your reason for blocking them determines how likely you are to play with them again. So maybe if you blocked them for unsporting conduct or something similar, you’d be less likely to be placed on their team again than if it was someone who you blocked because you just felt like they were a lot better or worse than you. I’m sure you’d still have people who’d continue to dodge players by falsely selecting one of the more serious offenses so they’d be less likely to match that player again, but maybe it’d help those of us who block/report just in order to have a more enjoyable experience, not because we just don’t want to play people who are better than us.
That also might help in those instances where you’re just playing with people who aren’t familiar with the rules of the game and are doing things like running the flag to the wrong base not because they’re trying to be a jerk, but because they just don’t know any better. For example, I had a game of CTF on Truth a few weeks ago where I had the flag and was hiding in our base waiting for my teammates to kill the other team’s carrier and return our flag so I could cap it. My teammate betrayed me and tried to cap the flag, but of course he couldn’t because our flag was still out. This didn’t feel like he betrayed me just to be a bad teammate, but because he didn’t realize that our flag had to be in our base before I could put the flag in. Obviously I didn’t report or block him since it didn’t seem like he did it to be a jerk or anything, so I wouldn’t want that to hurt his Xbox rep, but maybe if there was an option to avoid him based on player skill (which didn’t affect a player’s Xbox Live rep if I remember correctly) I could select that and might not be as likely to match with him again since errors like that can cost you a win if they happen at the wrong times (I don’t remember if it cost us this particular game or not). Again though, that may solely be an Xbox Live issue that is completely out of 343’s control.
Heavy aim patch seems to have made a difference! fingers crossed it has ive only had time to run 2 games so far but it felt better
> 2533274839818445;52:
> > 2533274906308237;39:
> > Just following up on an previous post you made about accounting for individual performance in the post-game MMR update:
> >
> > "To your last point incorporating individual performance while still honoring the winner: This is something we are working on this very moment for MMR. It’s going to take awhile because it’s a major improvement involving very intricate math to get right. This will improve MMR estimates greatly, although we won’t be applying it directly to CSR in Halo 5. It will indirectly affect CSR though, because CSR is based on enemy difficulty, and enemy difficulty will be more precise that it is now."My question: are you saying that individual performance will not affect post-game CSR updates, but it may cause you to get put into a much harder or much easier game afterwards (because your MMR will have changed significantly based on performance), and thus will give you an opportunity to gain or lose a lot of CSR in that next game (and subsequent games)?__ So basically the CSR gain/loss algorithm with remain ELO-like, based only on Win/Loss, but the matchmaking will change.
> >
> > I’ve been a very vocal opponent of including any individual performance stats into player ranks, but I think I really like your idea here, precisely because CSR is not directly affected. Maybe I’m finally understanding it… This would mean that CSR remains totally pure and focused on winning (not stat-hoarding), but matchmaking would be more efficient at knowing when to put low ranked people into harder games, which would then rank them up faster if they can win those hard games.
>
> Yes, you are correct.
Been thinking about this, and one issue came to me.
Let’s say player “SpartanJohn” (most generic GT i could think of) loses a few games in a row, cause he’s basically just playing for kill stats in an objective gametype, and not helping win. But his stat line looks good as a result. So now he ends up with an MMR that exceeds his CSR and his actual skill level, and he gets put into some tough games with higher MMR people. The MM system thinks it’s a fair match because it doesn’t know his MMR is inflated. Now his new teammates kinda get screwed… they may lose the game, lose MMR and CSR, all because SpartanJohn has an unrealistically high MMR.
This is probably not a huge effect… if his new teammates lose a game because of SpartanJohn, they’ll likely make up that CSR quickly, if they’re as good as they think. In the end it probably comes out as a wash for them. But it might cause some frustration for them in the meantime.
Quick note. The stopgap is not in yet. The stopgap will be a month or so. The ideal solution is months and months out since it’s part of a full skill system overhaul and needs time to contain all the awesomeness.
> 2533274815533909;79:
> Well this is also good to know, but also pretty crappie at the same time… Just so I’m clear, if you have the search parameter set to focused, you’ll always play against full teams and never non full parties?
Not quite. If you search outside of a full party and search Focused, you won’t match full parties until you have waited the max wait time, whatever we set that to. Right now it’s 40 seconds. Might increase it for this.
If you are in a full party, it will search for a full party regardless of focused until you hit the max wait time, and then it will try for whatever it can get.
> 2533274906308237;83:
> > 2533274839818445;52:
> > > 2533274906308237;39:
> > > Just following up on an previous post you made about accounting for individual performance in the post-game MMR update:
> > >
> > > "To your last point incorporating individual performance while still honoring the winner: This is something we are working on this very moment for MMR. It’s going to take awhile because it’s a major improvement involving very intricate math to get right. This will improve MMR estimates greatly, although we won’t be applying it directly to CSR in Halo 5. It will indirectly affect CSR though, because CSR is based on enemy difficulty, and enemy difficulty will be more precise that it is now."My question: are you saying that individual performance will not affect post-game CSR updates, but it may cause you to get put into a much harder or much easier game afterwards (because your MMR will have changed significantly based on performance), and thus will give you an opportunity to gain or lose a lot of CSR in that next game (and subsequent games)?__ So basically the CSR gain/loss algorithm with remain ELO-like, based only on Win/Loss, but the matchmaking will change.
> > >
> > > I’ve been a very vocal opponent of including any individual performance stats into player ranks, but I think I really like your idea here, precisely because CSR is not directly affected. Maybe I’m finally understanding it… This would mean that CSR remains totally pure and focused on winning (not stat-hoarding), but matchmaking would be more efficient at knowing when to put low ranked people into harder games, which would then rank them up faster if they can win those hard games.
> >
> > Yes, you are correct.
>
> Been thinking about this, and one issue came to me.
>
> Let’s say player “SpartanJohn” (most generic GT i could think of) loses a few games in a row, cause he’s basically just playing for kill stats in an objective gametype, and not helping win. But his stat line looks good as a result. So now he ends up with an MMR that exceeds his CSR and his actual skill level, and he gets put into some tough games with higher MMR people. The MM system thinks it’s a fair match because it doesn’t know his MMR is inflated. Now his new teammates kinda get screwed… they may lose the game, lose MMR and CSR, all because SpartanJohn has an unrealistically high MMR.
>
> This is probably not a huge effect… if his new teammates lose a game because of SpartanJohn, they’ll likely make up that CSR quickly, if they’re as good as they think. In the end it probably comes out as a wash for them. But it might cause some frustration for them in the meantime.
Ye, there will probably be outliers here and there.
But keep in mind that it’s still constrained by winning. If you’re on the losing team, the system requires that the sum of the performances on the your team be less than the winning team’s. That means you really have to outperform your teammates to benefit in that way. This won’t happen super often if the matchmaking is good.
Do you know why any kind of party restriction system wasn’t implemented when the game came out?
The game is kicking me out of every single match I get in Halo CE or Halo 2. My NAT type is Open, I don’t have any other problem with any other game. WHAT IS GOING ON?!
Whenever I get kicked out a message saying “JOINING FAILED Your attempt to join this player has failed. Please try again.” I’m not even playing with anyone else. Please I’m trying to do a stream on twitch playing all the Halo games on MCC. But this keeps happening.
> 2533274796457055;7:
> > 2533274808246214;6:
> > One form of heavy aim? So other forms will still exist?
>
> This is going to sound snarky but I don’t mean it to.
>
> Read the thread before posting next time:
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> > 2533274839818445;4:
> > > 2695457991278531;3:
> > > Niiiiiiice!!
> > > When you say “one form of heavy aim”, are you implying there are multiple causes of heavy aim? If so, will those fixes be out soon after this patch?
> > > thanks again for your transparency!!
> >
> > I’m just being careful about saying, “we’ve totally fixed heavy aim”
> >
> > We’ve fixed something that definitely causes aim to feel heavy.
> >
> > We’ll wait and see if there are others.
> >
> > Also, there are bound to be some things that can affect aiming that are out of our hands (ISP, etc.).
im so sick of all this damn lag
> 2533274826313307;87:
> The game is kicking me out of every single match I get in Halo CE or Halo 2. My NAT type is Open, I don’t have any other problem with any other game. WHAT IS GOING ON?!
Issues like this are best posted in the MCC support forums, this topic is for discussing feedback related to Halo 5’s matchmaking
Why when I searched focused do I always match Mexicans?
Knowing how inconsistent hcs mathcmaking is, could you possibly force all players to be in game chat while playing the game. ( Go back to the old days of games like mw2 where you couldnt matchmake unless you had a mic attached). It’s hard enough playing this playlist solo.
I’d like to know why MMR remains hidden. The community gets shown these shiny badges, attached to a numeric, visible, Competitive Skill Rank. This CSR goes up and down with W/L and is shown after every match. Now we have them listed on Leaderboards. It’s all we see, they get reset every season, and we’re told to get our placements and work our way up in rank. It’s only logical that players believe these ranks to be the basis for matchmaking. But when they try to apply their CSR to their matches it most often appears unbalanced and creates a crap ton of needless confusion, frustration and anger. There are multiple threads on here about it every day. Then they get told, “Oh that’s not your real Rank”. Well what is my real rank? “Oh we can’t tell you.” Utterly ridiculous.
EDIT: I reposted here after my OP was locked and I was directed to this thread by a Moderator. I guess it’s my fault for pointing out how many times this issue gets asked about in different threads.
> 2533274968722829;93:
> I’d like to know why MMR remains hidden.
Josh touched on that in this post, but has also talked about it in previous updates - essentially MMR is the estimation of your skill, what the system expect the outcome of your games to be. CSR is the visible representation of what you have actually earned. It’s honestly no different from Halo 3 which ran on pretty much the same system just with different names
> 2533274839818445;84:
> Quick note. The stopgap is not in yet. The stopgap will be a month or so. The ideal solution is months and months out since it’s part of a full skill system overhaul and needs time to contain all the awesomeness.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274815533909;79:
> > Well this is also good to know, but also pretty crappie at the same time… Just so I’m clear, if you have the search parameter set to focused, you’ll always play against full teams and never non full parties?
>
> Not quite. If you search outside of a full party and search Focused, you won’t match full parties until you have waited the max wait time, whatever we set that to. Right now it’s 40 seconds. Might increase it for this.
>
> If you are in a full party, it will search for a full party regardless of focused until you hit the max wait time, and then it will try for whatever it can get.
So the stopgap isn’t in yet? you mean the what you said here? When does that come into affect then? or am I just not understanding things here right lol …sorry if not lol
> This stopgap is like the classic solution. We will try to match full parties only against other full parties. It’s a bit inefficient in that there are plenty of full parties that are terrible and don’t need to match against other parties, and those parties will now wait a little longer and get slightly worse matches. But it should be helpful to non-full parties while we finish the ideal solution
Interesting regarding the wait times. Sounds like a pretty decent set-up. If you do increase wait times, any idea what you might bump it up too? rough guess.
> 2533274813317074;94:
> > 2533274968722829;93:
> > I’d like to know why MMR remains hidden.
>
> Josh touched on that in this post, but has also talked about it in previous updates - essentially MMR is the estimation of your skill, what the system expect the outcome of your games to be. CSR is the visible representation of what you have actually earned. It’s honestly no different from Halo 3 which ran on pretty much the same system just with different names
The problem with a matchmaking system that has a hidden MMR to match players based on it’s predictions of who will win is completely flawed in the first place. If it is matching teams and has a projected winner then it isn’t doing its job of correctly matching teams. Because it should be matching people so closely that I can’t predict the winner.
> 2533274813317074;94:
> > 2533274968722829;93:
> > I’d like to know why MMR remains hidden.
>
> Josh touched on that in this post, but has also talked about it in previous updates - essentially MMR is the estimation of your skill, what the system expect the outcome of your games to be. CSR is the visible representation of what you have actually earned. It’s honestly no different from Halo 3 which ran on pretty much the same system just with different names
Thanks for the response. I respect that you are trying to be helpful. I pretty much already understand the difference between CSR and MMR, but many players do not. The post you referenced only reinforces the confusion. If MMR is meant to be their “best guess at what your skill can be” then why are we awarded a visible, Competitive****Skill Rank, which is really just a “trophy”, and not a representation of where our actual, competitive skill is ranked? According to his answer, the new, numbered Leaderboards on Waypoint don’t really accurately represent those players’ estimated skill. They only show trophies earned by winning games. They have a hidden list of players numbered by skill. We both know that’s MMR. But 343’s emphasis on earning CSR, calling it a rank, re-setting it each season, and posting it after every match creates an illusion that it is actually an attempt at estimating skill. As far as the second link you referenced, players regularly post screen shots of CSR discrepancies in ranked matches wider than those Josh said H5 does not allow. I’m not going to research all of them, but I’ve commented on some of them in the past and that confusion contributes to the saltiness of the community and the quitting problem the game has. When players are shown two Onyx and two Golds, getting stomped by a Champ, an Onyx and two Plats they don’t know or care that some hidden algorithm thought their competitive skills were evenly matched.
> 2533274847840732;96:
> > 2533274813317074;94:
> > > 2533274968722829;93:
> > > I’d like to know why MMR remains hidden.
> >
> > Josh touched on that in this post, but has also talked about it in previous updates - essentially MMR is the estimation of your skill, what the system expect the outcome of your games to be. CSR is the visible representation of what you have actually earned. It’s honestly no different from Halo 3 which ran on pretty much the same system just with different names
>
> The problem with a matchmaking system that has a hidden MMR to match players based on it’s predictions of who will win is completely flawed in the first place. If it is matching teams and has a projected winner then it isn’t doing its job of correctly matching teams. Because it should be matching people so closely that I can’t predict the winner.
I get what you’re saying, but stckrboy never said the system predicted a winner. I think he meant what you said: that the “system expects the outcome of your games to be”… “so close that I can’t predict a winner.”
My problem with the hidden system is that we are told it works a lot better than the visible system we are constantly teased and awarded with. The old “don’t pay any attention to the man behind the curtain” is annoying at best.