Master Chief vs Jerome Cable

The only reason i bring this topic up is because there both spartan 2s and Masterchief was struggling it seemed to fight lock (must take in consideration the loss of cortana and the effect it had on him) while Jerome on the other hand single handedly killed all of atrioxs brute bossess with like a magnum and a knife while stalling for isabel to shut down 00. pretty bad -Yoink-, but were left unsatisfyed with the fact masterchief couldent grapple with a spartan 4.If they were to meet and fight right now (lets forget thier fireteams and the fact that jerome had some wacko custom hydra launcher and mantis right now) who would win? i know i know you want to say MC but really think about if, i know im having my doubts… convince me you right…

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John’s experience is too big of a factor to ignore. And Locke holding his own against the Chief felt more like props to Locke than a detraction for John. I also gotta add in the fact that John is lucky :stuck_out_tongue:

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> Also not to mention Jerome was in cryo for 27 years and still has the body of a 20 year old Spartan-II, while John is in his 40’s?

This is a fair point, but we don’t know what long-term affects augmentation have on the human body. A Spartan could theoretically be combat effective well into their 80’s or even low 100’s for all we know, so a twenty year difference might not even be that much. Chief has also spent a long time in cryo, not 27 years, but enough that his actual age is probably far lower than his age based on birthday count.

So to answer OP’s question, I’m gonna go with John.

John is the superior Spartan-II, that’s all. More combat experience, better equipment, I mean if we’re actually supposed to believe what 343i keeps shoving in our face and that Spartan-IVs are just as capable as Spartan-IIs, then Locke shouldn’t have been the pushover he was in Halo 5. So actual age has nothing to do with their combat ability. Equipment wise, Jerome is still rocking the old Mjolnir, while the MC isn’t, so, big difference there.

But all in all, there were three Spartan-IIs that stood out in the program: John, Fred and Kurt. They were considered to be the best. The other Spartan-IIs are all excellent soldiers in their own rights and leagues above the rest of the UNSC, but the above three were the best.

As much as I like Jerome, he would fall to Chief with no contest whatsoever. Chief has been involved in over 200 ground operations and has every medal in the UNSC except the Prisoner of War. He’s also the luckiest Spartan ever. And his fight with Locke wouldn’t even be that much of a contest too. Not only was the fight poorly choreographed, but Chief normally holds back when facing humans. They didn’t even fight like Spartans, but regular people who have no experience or knowledge whatsoever on martial arts.

Jerome, along with Douglas and Alice, was declared MIA very early in the war. Chief has a 25+ years of experience advantage. Yes, Jerome single-handedly took care of some Brutes and Elites aboard their ship… but Chief single-handedly wrecked havoc in High Charity, fighting councilors and the higher ranks Sangheili and a lot of Brutes too. But there’s also Truth And Reconciliation. He boarded the ship to rescue Keyes, and he took them out pretty much (nearly) single-handedly too. The experience gap gets much larger when Chief starts fighting the Flood. I mean, armed with a Shotgun with 20 Combat Forms armed with everything rushing at him non-stop? And he’s still standing.

The fact that Locke gave Chief so much trouble proves that experience isn’t that big of a deal as people make it out to be.

Anyways,Chief takes this.The fact that Jerome is still rocking Mk IV,while John is wearing Gen2 Mk VI seals the deal.

> 2533274838418174;4:
> John is the superior Spartan-II, that’s all. More combat experience, better equipment, I mean if we’re actually supposed to believe what 343i keeps shoving in our face and that Spartan-IVs are just as capable as Spartan-IIs, then Locke shouldn’t have been the pushover he was in Halo 5. So actual age has nothing to do with their combat ability. Equipment wise, Jerome is still rocking the old Mjolnir, while the MC isn’t, so, big difference there.
>
> But all in all, there were three Spartan-IIs that stood out in the program: John, Fred and Kurt. They were considered to be the best. The other Spartan-IIs are all excellent soldiers in their own rights and leagues above the rest of the UNSC, but the above three were the best.

Read Jerome’s bio.
It was a top 4,not a top 3.
Kurt,John,Fredric and Jerome were the top 4 emerging team leaders.

> 2533274838418174;4:
> John is the superior Spartan-II, that’s all. More combat experience, better equipment, I mean if we’re actually supposed to believe what 343i keeps shoving in our face and that Spartan-IVs are just as capable as Spartan-IIs, then Locke shouldn’t have been the pushover he was in Halo 5. So actual age has nothing to do with their combat ability. Equipment wise, Jerome is still rocking the old Mjolnir, while the MC isn’t, so, big difference there.
>
> But all in all, there were three Spartan-IIs that stood out in the program: John, Fred and Kurt. They were considered to be the best. The other Spartan-IIs are all excellent soldiers in their own rights and leagues above the rest of the UNSC, but the above three were the best.

lets please remember Jerome was the fourth stand out but was an augmentation washout, and was able to retrain and re take the augmentation successfully so there were four not three

> 2533274838418174;4:
> John is the superior Spartan-II, that’s all. More combat experience
>
> But all in all, there were three Spartan-IIs that stood out in the program: John, Fred and Kurt. They were considered to be the best. The other Spartan-IIs are all excellent soldiers in their own rights and leagues above the rest of the UNSC, but the above three were the best.

Halo Wars’ Red Team was part of the failed augmentation group, likely why they are never mentioned in any of the books. Using statements about John, Fred, and Kurt being the best doesn’t necessarily work due to the special circumstances regarding Jerome and the other members of Red Team. Halo Wars also hadn’t been created by the time Fall of Reach or Ghosts of Onyx were written so…

> John is the superior Spartan-II, that’s all. More combat experience

Better equipment aside (as the accurately answer this question I would say they’d need to be on a level playing field with a similar level of equipment, and if Jerome was to come back into contact with Chief, he would likely be able to get a Gen 2 MJOLNIR suit anyway), the combat experience is true due to Jerome spending 20 years in ice, but doesn’t necessarily mean John would win. Also, saying the point is moot just because John is “the superior Spartan-II” is a cop-out. It has been mentioned that John wasn’t necessarily the best Spartan 2 at everything, but he had the leadership capabilities to warrant his position, and his deus ex-machina “luck”. And he was competitive enough to often get 1st in competitions. The same goes for both Kurt and Fred. Their leadership skills are what set them apart from the others.

While it is easy to say “duh…Chief would win” any Spartan 2’s going against eachother would be a hard matchup to determine a winner without seeing it, Chief or no. Though if it ever was to happen in-game, Chief would win, because fans and story.

As characters, I like Jerome a lot better and would not mind him becoming the main guy if Steve Downes ever retires. Same with Fred.

> 2535442603837412;6:
> The fact that Locke gave Chief so much trouble proves that experience isn’t that big of a deal as people make it out to be.
>
> Anyways,Chief takes this.The fact that Jerome is still rocking Mk IV,while John is wearing Gen2 Mk VI seals the deal.

The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.

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> > 2535442603837412;6:
> > The fact that Locke gave Chief so much trouble proves that experience isn’t that big of a deal as people make it out to be.
> >
> > Anyways,Chief takes this.The fact that Jerome is still rocking Mk IV,while John is wearing Gen2 Mk VI seals the deal.
>
> The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.

I felt that it could have been done better as well. But where in canon does Chief hold back when fighting humans? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t recall a moment where he made the conscious decision to hold back. He killed two ODSTs and injured the other two in a shipboard gym. He was specifically bred for combat against the Insurrection, well before the Covenant showed up.

I don’t understand all the people saying the MC’s got an edge over jerome for sporting GEN II mjolnir, i thought the only “edge” that gen 2 has is that it compensates for some augmentations that the spartan 2’s had to undergo.

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> > >
> >
> > The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.
>
> I felt that it could have been done better as well. But where in canon does Chief hold back when fighting humans? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t recall a moment where he made the conscious decision to hold back. He killed two ODSTs and injured the other two in a shipboard gym. He was specifically bred for combat against the Insurrection, well before the Covenant showed up.

“Uhh, I can('t) explain.” (I forgot about that one ;_:wink:

> 2535417489836664;11:
> I don’t understand all the people saying the MC’s got an edge over jerome for sporting GEN II mjolnir, i thought the only “edge” that gen 2 has is that it compensates for some augmentations that the spartan 2’s had to undergo.

GEN2 is more practical and functional at the expense of the protection that GEN1 gave. GEN3 aims to combine those attributes.

> 2535417489836664;11:
> I don’t understand all the people saying the MC’s got an edge over jerome for sporting GEN II mjolnir, i thought the only “edge” that gen 2 has is that it compensates for some augmentations that the spartan 2’s had to undergo.

Just like any other piece of tech’s follow up generations, it’s a better system in (almost) every way. Shielding is better, AI interface is better, firmware is better, as you said augmentation compensation is better, etc.

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> > 2535442603837412;6:
> > The fact that Locke gave Chief so much trouble proves that experience isn’t that big of a deal as people make it out to be.
> >
> > Anyways,Chief takes this.The fact that Jerome is still rocking Mk IV,while John is wearing Gen2 Mk VI seals the deal.
>
> The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.

Poor choreography does not take away from the fact that Locke kept pace with Chief.

I’ll need some citation about Chief holding back against humans.The only thing I remember is him having qualms about killing humans.But those qualms didn’t stop him from killing humans anyway.
Also Locke’s mission was just to subdue Chief.So he was probably putting in the same amount of effort Chief was.

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> > >
> >
> > The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.
>
> Poor choreography does not take away from the fact that Locke kept pace with Chief.
>
> I’ll need some citation about Chief holding back against humans.The only thing I remember is him having qualms about killing humans.But those qualms didn’t stop him from killing humans anyway.
> Also Locke’s mission was just to subdue Chief.So he was probably putting in the same amount of effort Chief was.

It does. Again, they didn’t even fight like soldiers. I mean, super-predictable and slow attacks, arms not doing anything, not using your arms to protect your face… Chief’s also a Spartan-II, which has superior genetics. All Locke really had to even have a chance was technology/his armor. However, Chief’s armor is of the same platform: GEN2. Not only was the fight laughably and poorly choreographed but they downplayed Chief to even give Locke a chance. The afro-mentioned poor choreography is what also contributed to Locke standing up against Chief. There was a part where Chief charged a punch… he was slow and predictable. There’s this part when Locke charges into Chief when he was prone… Chief had his arms down/unprepared for a counter attack. There’s this part where they were holding each other’s arms… but their other arm wasn’t doing anything. All these scenes make it look like Chief didn’t even train, and pretty much every soldier learns how to fight in hand-to-hand combat.

I forgot that part where he killed 2 ODSTs when he was 14… my mistake.

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> > > >
> > >
> > > The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.
> >
> > Poor choreography does not take away from the fact that Locke kept pace with Chief.
> >
> > I’ll need some citation about Chief holding back against humans.The only thing I remember is him having qualms about killing humans.But those qualms didn’t stop him from killing humans anyway.
> > Also Locke’s mission was just to subdue Chief.So he was probably putting in the same amount of effort Chief was.
>
> It does. Again, they didn’t even fight like soldiers. I mean, super-predictable and slow attacks, arms not doing anything, not using your arms to protect your face… Chief’s also a Spartan-II, which has superior genetics. All Locke really had to even have a chance was technology/his armor. However, Chief’s armor is of the same platform: GEN2. Not only was the fight laughably and poorly choreographed but they downplayed Chief to even give Locke a chance. The afro-mentioned poor choreography is what also contributed to Locke standing up against Chief. There was a part where Chief charged a punch… he was slow and predictable. There’s this part when Locke charges into Chief when he was prone… Chief had his arms down/unprepared for a counter attack. There’s this part where they were holding each other’s arms… but their other arm wasn’t doing anything. All these scenes make it look like Chief didn’t even train, and pretty much every soldier learns how to fight in hand-to-hand combat.
>
> I forgot that part where he killed 2 ODSTs when he was 14… my mistake.

The only thing the terrible choreography and slow pace proves is that whoever directed the fight is terrible at making action scenes.Nothing else.

“They downplayed Chief to even give Locke a chance”
That’s just plain disbelief on your part.Your disbelief isn’t going to change the fact that Locke gave John decent trouble.

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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.
> >
> > It does. Again, they didn’t even fight like soldiers. I mean, super-predictable and slow attacks, arms not doing anything, not using your arms to protect your face… Chief’s also a Spartan-II, which has superior genetics. All Locke really had to even have a chance was technology/his armor. However, Chief’s armor is of the same platform: GEN2. Not only was the fight laughably and poorly choreographed but they downplayed Chief to even give Locke a chance. The afro-mentioned poor choreography is what also contributed to Locke standing up against Chief. There was a part where Chief charged a punch… he was slow and predictable. There’s this part when Locke charges into Chief when he was prone… Chief had his arms down/unprepared for a counter attack. There’s this part where they were holding each other’s arms… but their other arm wasn’t doing anything. All these scenes make it look like Chief didn’t even train, and pretty much every soldier learns how to fight in hand-to-hand combat.
> >
> > I forgot that part where he killed 2 ODSTs when he was 14… my mistake.
>
> The only thing the terrible choreography and slow pace proves is that whoever directed the fight is terrible at making action scenes.Nothing else.
>
> “They downplayed Chief to even give Locke a chance”
> That’s just plain disbelief on your part.Your disbelief isn’t going to change the fact that Locke gave John decent trouble.

They DID. With poor choreography about something, so does the truth. Whatever Locke has, Chief also does since they both sport armor that belongs to the same platform, but what Chief has, Locke doesn’t. Again, Locke was only capable of standing up to Chief because of his armor and the poor choreography. Plus, Chief is a war veteran, having completed some 207 ground engagements and earned every medal in the UNSC except Prisoner of War can only mean so much to a ONI spook who was recently turned into a S-IV. Without the experience, a Spartan-II against a Spartan-IV in the same gear is an obvious victory for the S-II for superior genetics. Add the experience and Chief would NEVER lose to Locke. Heck, he shouldn’t even struggle with him.

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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.
> > >
> > > It does. Again, they didn’t even fight like soldiers. I mean, super-predictable and slow attacks, arms not doing anything, not using your arms to protect your face… Chief’s also a Spartan-II, which has superior genetics. All Locke really had to even have a chance was technology/his armor. However, Chief’s armor is of the same platform: GEN2. Not only was the fight laughably and poorly choreographed but they downplayed Chief to even give Locke a chance. The afro-mentioned poor choreography is what also contributed to Locke standing up against Chief. There was a part where Chief charged a punch… he was slow and predictable. There’s this part when Locke charges into Chief when he was prone… Chief had his arms down/unprepared for a counter attack. There’s this part where they were holding each other’s arms… but their other arm wasn’t doing anything. All these scenes make it look like Chief didn’t even train, and pretty much every soldier learns how to fight in hand-to-hand combat.
> > >
> > > I forgot that part where he killed 2 ODSTs when he was 14… my mistake.
> >
> > The only thing the terrible choreography and slow pace proves is that whoever directed the fight is terrible at making action scenes.Nothing else.
> >
> > “They downplayed Chief to even give Locke a chance”
> > That’s just plain disbelief on your part.Your disbelief isn’t going to change the fact that Locke gave John decent trouble.
>
> They DID. With poor choreography about something, so does the truth. Whatever Locke has, Chief also does since they both sport armor that belongs to the same platform, but what Chief has, Locke doesn’t. Again, Locke was only capable of standing up to Chief because of his armor and the poor choreography. Plus, Chief is a war veteran, having completed some 207 ground engagements and earned every medal in the UNSC except Prisoner of War can only mean so much to a ONI spook who was recently turned into a S-IV. Without the experience, a Spartan-II against a Spartan-IV in the same gear is an obvious victory for the S-II for superior genetics. Add the experience and Chief would NEVER lose to Locke. Heck, he shouldn’t even struggle with him.

Claming choreography is the only reason Locke did well is plain hogwash.

The article states that a Spartan IV is theoretically as good as a Spartan II in armour.Guess what pal?Locke literally proves that theory.

It also mentions that if they fought outside of their armour, the Spartan II would beat most Spartan IVs.It says most instead of **all.**That clearly implies that they’re outlier individuals among the Spartan IV generation.And Locke is obviously one of them.
There’s nothing wrong with his portrayal against the Chief.You’re just dwelling in denial.

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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.
> > > >
> > > > It does. Again, they didn’t even fight like soldiers. I mean, super-predictable and slow attacks, arms not doing anything, not using your arms to protect your face… Chief’s also a Spartan-II, which has superior genetics. All Locke really had to even have a chance was technology/his armor. However, Chief’s armor is of the same platform: GEN2. Not only was the fight laughably and poorly choreographed but they downplayed Chief to even give Locke a chance. The afro-mentioned poor choreography is what also contributed to Locke standing up against Chief. There was a part where Chief charged a punch… he was slow and predictable. There’s this part when Locke charges into Chief when he was prone… Chief had his arms down/unprepared for a counter attack. There’s this part where they were holding each other’s arms… but their other arm wasn’t doing anything. All these scenes make it look like Chief didn’t even train, and pretty much every soldier learns how to fight in hand-to-hand combat.
> > > >
> > > > I forgot that part where he killed 2 ODSTs when he was 14… my mistake.
> >
> > They DID. With poor choreography about something, so does the truth. Whatever Locke has, Chief also does since they both sport armor that belongs to the same platform, but what Chief has, Locke doesn’t. Again, Locke was only capable of standing up to Chief because of his armor and the poor choreography. Plus, Chief is a war veteran, having completed some 207 ground engagements and earned every medal in the UNSC except Prisoner of War can only mean so much to a ONI spook who was recently turned into a S-IV. Without the experience, a Spartan-II against a Spartan-IV in the same gear is an obvious victory for the S-II for superior genetics. Add the experience and Chief would NEVER lose to Locke. Heck, he shouldn’t even struggle with him.
>
> Claming choreography is the only reason Locke did well is plain hogwash.
>
> Halo 5: Guardians – Unmasking The Fireteam Hunting Master Chief - Game Informer
>
> The article states that a Spartan IV is theoretically as good as a Spartan II in armour.Guess what pal?Locke literally proves that theory.
>
> It also mentions that if they fought outside of their armour, the Spartan II would beat most Spartan IVs.It says most instead of **all.**That clearly implies that they’re outlier individuals among the Spartan IV generation.And Locke is obviously one of them.
> There’s nothing wrong with his portrayal against the Chief.You’re just dwelling in denial.

And it is.

And guess what? They need to be in armor to be evenly matched against S-IIs. And Chief was in the same kind of armor, which automatically disregards that armor advantage.
So, if S-IIs beat most of them when they’re off armor, then they would beat more when in their GEN1 armor and beat even more when using GEN2 armor. Guess what? Chief was in a GEN2 armor.

How can I be in denial with these facts? Locke has no real advantage or possibility to beat Chief. Superior genetics, same kind of armor, 25+ years of war experience against an alliance of some 7 aliens and, later, a parasite that defeated a civilization that was plain OP.

> 2535435902217648;10:
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> > > 2535442603837412;6:
> > > The fact that Locke gave Chief so much trouble proves that experience isn’t that big of a deal as people make it out to be.
> > >
> > > Anyways,Chief takes this.The fact that Jerome is still rocking Mk IV,while John is wearing Gen2 Mk VI seals the deal.
> >
> > The thing to take note here, however, is how the fight is so poorly choreographed. They’re literally fighting like any other 2 average guys who have no knowledge on martial arts would. Not to mention that Chief holds back when facing Humans.
>
> I felt that it could have been done better as well. But where in canon does Chief hold back when fighting humans? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t recall a moment where he made the conscious decision to hold back. He killed two ODSTs and injured the other two in a shipboard gym. He was specifically bred for combat against the Insurrection, well before the Covenant showed up.

Oh it took me a minuet… your refering to the fall of reach. *where he killed the ODSTS"