> Why are they going to remove evade for spartans?
> I mean what’s so bad about it I never find it overpowered or anything.
> Well if they remove evade I guess people are going back to spamming armor lock… Great.
Exactly. WIth no reason but these forums, they removed it. I love how people say 343 needs to please the people not on the forum, but think they are the largest portion.
> > No, the march update is brilliant. Getting rid of glitchy broken bleedthrough is one of the smartest things 343i can do.
>
> Oh, ok. So you’re okay if we go to PUMMEL + PUMMEL= 3-SHOT + PUMMEL + PUMMEL
Are you instead okay staying with 6 AR shots + PUMMEL = 18 AR shots + PUMMEL?
In your example, why does the person stop shooting after 3 shots, and if it’s a DMR or NR being fired, why is that weapon being used in such close range in the first place?
> > Why are they going to remove evade for spartans?
> > I mean what’s so bad about it I never find it overpowered or anything.
> > Well if they remove evade I guess people are going back to spamming armor lock… Great.
>
> Exactly. WIth no reason but these forums, they removed it. I love how people say 343 needs to please the people not on the forum, but think they are the largest portion.
How do you know that was the basis for the removal? I don’t recall any extensive great uproar against it on this forum. If anything, I remember it receiving passionate support from URZA and others. I believe Jet Pack gets more calls for removal. If pleasing people on this forum were the motivation, I think it would have been removed first.
> > > No, the march update is brilliant. Getting rid of glitchy broken bleedthrough is one of the smartest things 343i can do.
> >
> > Oh, ok. So you’re okay if we go to PUMMEL + PUMMEL= 3-SHOT + PUMMEL + PUMMEL
>
> Are you instead okay staying with 6 AR shots + PUMMEL = 18 AR shots + PUMMEL?
>
> In your example, why does the person stop shooting after 3 shots, and if it’s a DMR or NR being fired, why is that weapon being used in such close range in the first place?
So you’re just going to stand still and let them shoot you? OK, be an idiot. Most players would move out of range, or get behind cover. A 3-4 shot to the head kills them before they get up to you.
In my example, it shows what usually happens: two players close in on each other. Hence, not giving enough time to switch. With bleedthrough, you don’t have to. The AR rusher will meet his match. If you don’t kill him, you’ll both die.
> > > No, the march update is brilliant. Getting rid of glitchy broken bleedthrough is one of the smartest things 343i can do.
> >
> > Oh, ok. So you’re okay if we go to PUMMEL + PUMMEL= 3-SHOT + PUMMEL + PUMMEL
>
> Are you instead okay staying with 6 AR shots + PUMMEL = 18 AR shots + PUMMEL?
>
> In your example, why does the person stop shooting after 3 shots, and if it’s a DMR or NR being fired, why is that weapon being used in such close range in the first place?
what he wanted to show is that without bleedthrough the shots do not matter. the person stops after 3 shots because the opponent is close enough for a pummel. it simply isnt fair that way.
however i do realize that you are right too. with bleedthrough it doesnt work in that situation neither.
fix would be to adjust the damage according to the distance. example for AR: we start shooting at medium range; opponent brings me down to 50%. as he closes in for the melee i keep shooting and through damage adjustment by range i am able to bring him down to 0%; i win in the pummel duel.
also these weapons are used because they are the utility weapons and switching costs too much time and going for a headshot would be a smarter decision.
well doesnt matter anymore without bleedthrough.
… hopefully this is a joke. Removed evade? Damn 343.
Not sure what’s the point of voting, discussing arguments, and providing feedback but…for what it’s worth. This was the response i was should have made…
I think that this is the time to reduce melee damage in all TU playlists that have bleedthru removed. Perhaps by 75 percent to “nerf” the Sprint-double melee technique as to mimic bleeds “shoot your gun more” philosophy. That way, the rest of the sandbox can still function (though it’s not very good to begin with unless you are just playing for funsies) alongside the precision.
That’s a better solution IMO but i fear it will be drowned by out by sarcastic remarks, over emotional fanboyism, and my favorite, elitism belonging to regular forum warriors around here (no names but you know who you are).
> These forums are not representative of the wider community. 343s own in game metrics bear this out.
i never understood that “arguement”. i mean if i play reach multiplayer i have to have internet. if i have internet i most certainly have a pc (people that cant/wont afford a pc will most likely not have a xbox neither). so i have access to these forums and can voice my opinion on any aspect of the game be it the smallest thing.
so there are only two sides: either i do care and write in the forums or i dont give a -Yoink-.
so why do these forums NOT represent the gamers? i mean why didnt 343 revert everything to living dead settings by now if their game metrics are so much better?
(exaggeration of course; i know what you want to say but this “arguement” is none. but you know what? i dont understand your opinion and despise it; you dont understand me and despise my opinion; but in the end its all good because 343 get to see both sides)
I agree, There are more bad things than good things in this update.
> I agree, There are more bad things than good things in this update.
This is the problem.
So why give it to the players if it basically takes a bunch of great ideas that need tweaking, and crushes them? I mean really?
I would like as much feedback as you can give. Thank you.
Removing Squad is idiotic, apart from Classic, its the only good Slayer playlist.
The only good part of this update is removing Evade as a spartan loadout. This is a good thing, it is ridiculously OP.
> > > No, the march update is brilliant. Getting rid of glitchy broken bleedthrough is one of the smartest things 343i can do.
> >
> > Oh, ok. So you’re okay if we go to PUMMEL + PUMMEL= 3-SHOT + PUMMEL + PUMMEL
>
> Are you instead okay staying with 6 AR shots + PUMMEL = 18 AR shots + PUMMEL?
>
> In your example, why does the person stop shooting after 3 shots, and if it’s a DMR or NR being fired, why is that weapon being used in such close range in the first place?
Have you tried reduced melee damage? Pretty certain that fixes all of the major issues with melee.
And is melee even the issue with bleedthru? I thought it was the difficulty that some players were having judging their shield strength against the number of long range precision hits they can sustain.
I am glad bleed through was removed!
I like the idea of heavy big team maps!
This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> I am glad bleed through was removed!
>
> I like the idea of heavy big team maps!
Spoken like a true casual. The only things he sees in the update are additions to an already inherently casual playlist and the removal of a feature that he was obviously unable to adapt to. So awesome!!!
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Looks like i’m back into skyrim.
Worst update ever.
Removal of bleedthrough for TU is enough to quit this game.
> > > > No, the march update is brilliant. Getting rid of glitchy broken bleedthrough is one of the smartest things 343i can do.
> > >
> > > Oh, ok. So you’re okay if we go to PUMMEL + PUMMEL= 3-SHOT + PUMMEL + PUMMEL
> >
> > Are you instead okay staying with 6 AR shots + PUMMEL = 18 AR shots + PUMMEL?
> >
> > In your example, why does the person stop shooting after 3 shots, and if it’s a DMR or NR being fired, why is that weapon being used in such close range in the first place?
>
> Have you tried reduced melee damage? Pretty certain that fixes all of the major issues with melee.
>
> And is melee even the issue with bleedthru? I thought it was the difficulty that some players were having judging their shield strength against the number of long range precision hits they can sustain.
People cried because if you had red health you would die from 1 DMR shot and melee, and 2 DMR shots and a melee with orange health. All this did was actually put a significant dependence on health packs and added a new “skill” to the game. On top of that being that people are arguing that whether they’re 1 shot or 2 shot makes a huge difference in the decisions they make, when anyone who understands Halo knows this isn’t true (or at least if it is it is due to players being careless). It’s ridiculous that bleed through was removed on claims of absolute ignorance. Anyone and everyone who adapted to it had no problem with it and preferred it.
All complaints against bleed through had no factual backing and were simply just players inability to make changes to the way they play the game. This is actually the first time the “adapt” thing as been justified in; you shouldn’t have to adapt to randomness or a inconsistency, you should have to adapt to Halo returning to a state which punishes bad decisions and rewards good ones, something that the TU instilled, bleed through being a primary factor contributing to that.
Not to mention Auto’s are completely useless now. You have the 85% bloom DMR and ZB NR which will destroy anything long, mid, or close range, and now you don’t even have bleed through to allow for an “ambush” style use of auto’s. It’s funny how all the vanilla supporters are praising 343 for this change, but they will soon learn that the DMR is even more “OP” than it was with the original TU settings.
This isn’t a “compromise”, it’s just settings that no one can enjoy. At least with TU and Vanilla you pleased 2 very large populations, now you please a tiny fraction of that.
Whatever, I honestly am finding it hard to continue arguing about this -Yoink- anymore. If 343 wants to allow the continuation of the destruction of Vanilla Halo, then be my guest. H4 has one chance with anyone who is good at Halo, and if it fails, Halo will most likely die to us leaving a hole in our hearts where Halo used to be. 
This Update sucks.
Wanna know why?
You’re catering to the vanilla warriors and -Yoink!- TU warriors by removing bleedthrough.
As soon as I play a game without bleedthrough in TU, I’m done with Reach.
Adding and updating joke playlists, and leaving Arena and MLG untouched, good job!
So firefight gets the shaft yet again… sigh
As for the actual list of changes, I’m content with what we’ll be receiving. Heavies has been long overdue, so I’ll finally have a reason to return to BTB. My only issue with bleedthrough was always where it concerned melee fights. Bullet bleed I could tolerate, however as it has been pointed out repeatedly in the past, melee-bleed is broken.
Really going to miss evade though.