MAP FEEDBACK THREAD: Think Twice (Community)

Download Link: Think Twice
Author: Sven Nietzsche, Jonzorz124, A 3 Legged Goat, and GodlyPerfection

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRuXUdYk6TA

Now this map I think has been quite successful. People enjoy the unique feel of the map and the style of combat that it creates. The whole map is utilized and it definitely places as it was intended. This map has gotten much better reception than Affinity and I’ve gotten more fan mail/comments for this than hate mail/comments. The four of us worked extremely hard on the map, but sadly I’ll probably be the only one maintaining it.

What I’m looking for is what minor adjustments do you think could be applied to the map to improve it. Maybe some tweaks to weapon spawn times/placement, cover placement, etc. etc. I don’t have the time to do a massive overhaul right now since now I have a new son to take care of, so I apologize.

<em>Try also giving feedback for Château and Affinity</em>

Grenade launchers would be nice - with all the angles, GL would be a lot of fun, and it would be handy for dealing with people behind the barricades (can’t remember their specific name - the ones that look like deployable cover)

> Grenade launchers would be nice - with all the angles, GL would be a lot of fun, and it would be handy for dealing with people behind the barricades (can’t remember their specific name - the ones that look like deployable cover)

During the alpha and public beta for Think Twice there was a TON of discussion on the inclusion of grenade launchers as well as the inclusion of plasma launchers. A lot of players enjoyed the plasma launchers because they made the map unique and it allowed players to realize how good the weapon really is. The initial rush for sniper with the plasma launchers was always an enjoyable experience.

Because we decided to keep the plasma launcher, the grenade launcher felt like it would push the amount of explosions on the map over the desired limit. Grenade spam is pretty popular in the center of the map (even if being accurate with them is very difficult between levels). So adding grenade launchers to the grenade spam and the plasma launchers would not only make combat too hectic, but it would also push the map into performance issues more than it does now. Right now under extreme circumstances you get a little slow down in the center, and adding more explosives would not help this.

I definitely agree that grenade launchers would fit very well with the maps setup. However because we opted to keep plasma launchers it was not feasible. For us the pros of the plasma launcher out weighed the pros of the grenade launcher. So we went with the blueberry as opposed to the pro pipe.

I too would like to see the Grenade Launchers replace the Plasma Launchers. the Plasma Launchers don’t really help in 4v4 type games where there aren’t any vehicles. Once 1 of my randoms grabbed it and accidentally stuck me in the back. The Sniper could use 4 more shots in it, since its the only one on the map, I don’t think it would hurt.

The spawns are nice and I like the fact that Camo isn’t very effective on it. Though it drives me nuts when people get into Bottom mid and Armorlock. Honestly as much as I don’t like Think Twice, it and many of the other Community maps are beginning to grow on me. Except for Enclosed. That map just sucks.

The sticky launchers don’t always get picked up in my MM experience - particularly on DMR starts. Many times I’ve seen everyone ignore the blueberries just for the worst player on our team to grab them and well, I’m sure you can imagine how that goes. I think the issue with it is the difference in effectiveness in direct combat. If somebody else has the sniper rifle or the hammer, your shot isn’t going to stop them from killing you. If you’re really lucky it might land you a kill from the grave.
Personally I’d like to see the grenade launcher spawning across the map from hammer, where the needler spawns. If the number of explosions on map is an issue, cutting back the grenades that spawn on it might help - they’re somewhat over-used in many games anyhow.
I think the difference might lie in the population online. I rarely see scrumming in bottom mid. The majority of the gameplay I see on this map seems to focus on moving around the outside, with a lot of the actual combat happening in the ‘doorways’ between the various sections.

I love playing on this map with no radar. You have to be very aware and constantly checking your back and sides. Of course, like all your maps, the aesthetics are fantastic. It’s refreshing to play on because of the color variety. I know on your maps you make a conscious effort to avoid the flat, dull gray of many forge world maps.

My only recommended change would be too add a mongoose (jk) (but seriously). I think I like it how it is with the plasma launcher and no Pro Pipe. And I <3 the spikers on your maps. Probably my favorite overall thing about your maps.

> I think the difference might lie in the population online. I rarely see scrumming in bottom mid. The majority of the gameplay I see on this map seems to focus on moving around the outside, with a lot of the actual combat happening in the ‘doorways’ between the various sections.

this has been my experience as well. with the minor scuffling up top for the sniper, most of the action in my games on this map seem to happen around the exterior of the map rather than underneath in the middle.

Alright so there is a lot of talk about the Plasma launchers and the Pro Pipe. What if in Gold room (opposite hammer/green room) I replace the overshield that is in the original version with a grenade launcher. Then I up the spawn times on the grenades that spawn on the map. I think the plasma launchers are a nice unique touch to the map so I would prefer to keep them.

Would you guys consider the grenade launcher a weapon worth rushing at the beginning of the game in Gold room?

so question - if everyone’s saying that the blueberries don’t really fit/work, that doesn’t get considered because you like the idea of having them? doesn’t that kind of defeat asking for feedback?

i mean that with all due respect but i’m not quite sure how else to phrase it. i apologize for that now.

oh and i’m fairly certain a grenade launcher WOULD get rushed, yes.

> Alright so there is a lot of talk about the Plasma launchers and the Pro Pipe. What if in Gold room (opposite hammer/green room) I replace the overshield that is in the original version with a grenade launcher. Then I up the spawn times on the grenades that spawn on the map. I think the plasma launchers are a nice unique touch to the map so I would prefer to keep them.

That would be sweet

> Would you guys consider the grenade launcher a weapon worth rushing at the beginning of the game in Gold room?

Might be affected by personal preference, but yeah. At least as much as hammer is.

Edit: the blueberries work okay - they’re just underutilized in a lot of games. I’m pretty sure this map is pretty well the only reason I have a 4.24 k/d with the other-wise hard to find (in Team Slayer) plasma launcher. Well, this and Boardwalk.

> so question - if everyone’s saying that the blueberries don’t really fit/work, that doesn’t get considered because you like the idea of having them? doesn’t that kind of defeat asking for feedback?
>
> i mean that with all due respect but i’m not quite sure how else to phrase it. i apologize for that now.

Because this wasn’t the only feedback thread that existed. There was also the feedback thread in optimatch that was removed as well as our thread that we updated from alpha to beta to final release where a lot of people like the plasma launcher because it is so hard to come by on maps and it allows people to get comfortable with the weapon. Even though it is seen as a anti-vehicle weapon it is just as good as a power weapon on infantry if it is used properly. It sort of works in the same respects as the sniper rifle. Sniper rifles take skill to be a power weapon the same as the plasma launcher does at the ranges that Think Twice forces you to play. So instead of having a sniper at each base, we placed a plasma launcher at each base to play the similar role. It isn’t a complete power weapon unless used by the right person, just like the sniper rifle.

The weapon set of the map is trying to avoid the norm hence the inclusion of the hammer and plasma launcher so that is something I would like to continue. Keep in mind that the forums aren’t filled with everyone’s opinions… only those with the biggest voices. I’ve had just as much good comments about the plasma launcher as bad comments.

As for defeating the purpose of taking feedback it doesn’t. When taking feedback you should still stay true to what you want because it is your map, while improving the map to meet the communities wants as well. Finding a middle ground is extremely important when learning to take feedback. And that is what I’m offering. The pro pipe for those who enjoy it since the overshield was removed in gold room in the MM version, and keeping the plasma launcher because people enjoy the initial rush that it creates and enjoy the chance to get comfortable with it.

Cuz the initial rush for the sniper on the map just wouldn’t be the same if you don’t have to worry about getting hit by a blueberry, amiright? lol… :wink: many people have expressed that the initial rush with blueberries is part of the reason they enjoy the map.

If there is enough hate for the blueberry then I will remove it… but there is far from enough hate for it. Trust me bro… I’m listening. :wink:

This is probably the best of the 3 maps Affinity/Chateau/Think Twice. Still having said that, i still dont really like it. I find it very easy to spawn kill on this map, and have had games finish where a team hasnt gotten more than 15kills. I prefer maps, like Rebirth, Treasury and The Pit (Remake). Maybe the map doesnt fit my playstyle.

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other forum members.

> You’re going to compare a weapon that has a lock on and shoots 4 grenades that track with a weapon that has the smallest reticle in the game and requires a headshot to be instant kill?
>
> I guess its true what they say, stupid people always get lucky.
> There’s no other explanation on how you got maps in MM.

Don’t hate on Perfection.

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other forum members.

Let’s all play nice people!

Research in gameplay and weapon variety is what I would like to see in community maps.I love the plasma launcher, needs some skill but deadly;),I 'm not a great fan of the central cross tunnels section, but I love originality, this is still very good map.

> This is probably the best of the 3 maps Affinity/Chateau/Think Twice. Still having said that, i still dont really like it. I find it very easy to spawn kill on this map, and have had games finish where a team hasnt gotten more than 15kills. I prefer maps, like Rebirth, Treasury and The Pit (Remake). Maybe the map doesnt fit my playstyle.

If you don’t mind taking the time out to maybe making a clip of some spawn killing or craft a scenario to show how an easy spawn kill could be setup then that would be great. Maps can always get better so whatever you can give would be awesome.

> Research in gameplay and weapon variety is what I would like to see in community maps.I love the plasma launcher, needs some skill but deadly;),I 'm not a great fan of the central cross tunnels section, but I love originality, this is still very good map.

The center is great for those that are really amazing on their feet. This center can break up the monotony of a 1v1 DMR fight by adding more movement skill to the fight. It is a particular style and I can understand why it isn’t really your cup of tea though. Glad you still think it is a good map despite not being a fan of the center. :slight_smile:

> Glad you still think it is a good map despite not being a fan of the center. :slight_smile:

I’ve forged enough to recognize a good map when I play it, even if it’s not my personal style, and I can still enjoy playing it :wink: