Many call this curious gorge their grave, but early inhabitants left only these outposts behind in memoriam.
Discuss your thoughts on the Halo Reach Forge World remake of Blood Gulch and Coagulation, Hemorrhage, here.
There are many critics within our community clamoring for changes on this iconic remake. Some even wish for it to be scrapped. Although I enjoy Hemorrhage in its current form, I do not want to see it tossed out. Thus, I’d like to make a compromise with those wanting changes. Let’s alter Hemorrhage to reflect some of the XBL multiplayer upgrades we found after the transition from Blood Gulch to Coagulation. Here is a quick list containing the prevalent items:
- Bring the Powerups back to their respective corners of the map- Move the side teleporters back to their original locations on Coagulation- Replace the Plasma Launcher with a Needler- Move the PL to the center of the map (replace it with Rocket?)- If possible, redesign the bases to reflect the two story nature of Coagulation.
Those items are by no means the only changes one could make to Hemorrhage. I, simply, believe those compromises would allow the map to flow a bit better with a greater emphasize on infantry engagements, vehicle combat, and constant movement. That, however, remains to be seen. Thoughts?
-Always Hope
Make it like it was in Halo trial 
2 tanks at the back of each base, a banshee on the roof of the building, 4 hogs at each base, 2 mg, 2 rocket, add some mongeese.
Put the rockets back where they were at well as the overshield.
If possible (for Halo 4) make the map slightly smaller and 100% the same as halo 1 - hemorrhage seems… bigger.
> There are many critics within our community clamoring for changes on this iconic remake. Some even wish for it to be scrapped. Although I enjoy Hemorrhage in its current form, I do not want to see it tossed out. Thus, I’d like to make a compromise with those wanting changes. Let’s alter Hemorrhage to reflect some of the XBL multiplayer upgrades we found after the transition from Blood Gulch to Coagulation. Here is a quick list containing the prevalent items:
>
> - Bring the Powerups back to their respective corners of the map- Move the side teleporters back to their original locations on Coagulation- Replace the Plasma Launcher with a Needler- Move the PL to the center of the map (replace it with Rocket?)- If possible, redesign the bases to reflect the two story nature of Coagulation.
> Those items are by no means the only changes one could make to Hemorrhage. I, simply, believe those compromises would all the map to flow a bit better with a greater emphasize on infantry engagements, vehicle combat, and constant movement. That, however, remains to be seen. Thoughts?
>
> -Always Hope
- Eh, powerups would be better if you had no AAs.
- Bungie didn’t do a good job making it an exact remake, things are off but sure, 343 can do the best they can to move things.
- Sure why not
- Yes to middle river but I’d replace the PL with a Laser.
- It’s possible, I actually have a remake that has the 2 story base and the banshee inside, with the lift. (No I didn’t make it).
I would love to see epic vehicular combat, since in matchmaking the only things that get filtered through are mongooses, warthogs, revanants and a wraith on each side :/.
Where the Falcons? Wheres the Epic rocket Hogs battles? Where are the Tanks?
> 1. Eh, powerups would be better if you had no AAs.
> 2. Bungie didn’t do a good job making it an exact remake, things are off but sure, 343 can do the best they can to move things.
> 3. Sure why not
> 4. Yes to middle river but I’d replace the PL with a Laser.
> 5. It’s possible, I actually have a remake that has the 2 story base and the banshee inside, with the lift. (No I didn’t make it).
- I do not mind Armor Abilities, but I dislike Loadouts in non-Invasion gametypes. Powerups would work better without Loadouts and certain AAs.- Bungie wanted to do something different similar to Valhalla. Hemorrhage is a remake of Blood Gulch much more than Coagulation. Yes, 343 can and will do their best to improve all items.- Agreed- I’d replace it with a Rocket Launcher on a faster respawn, but that’s just me.- If I remember correctly, I have that remake as well. There is a thread with it linked somewhere within these forums. I seem to have lost it.
Thanks for the response!
-Always Hope
>
Typing this a second time because the first didn’t work…
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AA’s are nothing but a crutch. Halo has always been everyone starting out on equal terms and earning the advantage and control. Not given off spawn. Sure there are “tactical” ways to use AA’s but that doesn’t make them any less of what they are, crutches. Since we’re stuck with them until Halo 4 though, everyone should start out the same and have AA’s as pickups on map. Like what MLG did, like past Halo’s and powerups, even like equipment (even though equipment were crutches too, just not nearly as much as AAs). What AA/s that are on the map will obviously depend on the map itself.
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It’s more like a fused version of both, just not made nearly as best as it could. Its off and hard to make “even”.
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(Skipping 3 for obvious reasons) Laser would honestly be better as the main Anti Vehicle Power Weapon. Maybe have Rockets in place of the Concussions?
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Yes its a nice remake, should be used in MM. Though the Banshee would probably and most likely be left out for obvious reasons.
I personally think that a FRG should be placed at PL because it would do a better job there. That rocky area PL spawn is near is a good point to lay down some suppression fire, and perhaps a Rocket Luancher in a location similar in distance from the opposing side would even it out.
> >
>
> 1. AA’s are nothing but a crutch. Halo has always been everyone starting out on equal terms and earning the advantage and control. Not given off spawn. Sure there are “tactical” ways to use AA’s but that doesn’t make them any less of what they are, crutches. Since we’re stuck with them until Halo 4 though, everyone should start out the same and have AA’s as pickups on map. Like what MLG did, like past Halo’s and powerups, even like equipment (even though equipment were crutches too, just not nearly as much as AAs). What AA/s that are on the map will obviously depend on the map itself.
>
> 2. It’s more like a fused version of both, just not made nearly as best as it could. Its off and hard to make “even”.
>
> 4. (Skipping 3 for obvious reasons) Laser would honestly be better as the main Anti Vehicle Power Weapon. Maybe have Rockets in place of the Concussions?
>
> 5. Yes its a nice remake, should be used in MM. Though the Banshee would probably and most likely be left out for obvious reasons.
- I do not wish to get into a debate about AAs or Equipment here. In most cases, I prefer Halo sans Loadouts similar to its classic form. If AAs or Equipment are placed in strategic points around the map, so be it. For the record, MLG is not the definitive version of Halo.- Agreed, but it can be improved.- Skipped!- As long as whatever heavy power weapon is closer to the middle of the map, I’m fine testing out any variant selected. The Fuel Rod gun, mentioned by ThreeSixXero, sounds like an interesting compromise. I doubt Rockets would be a good replacement for the Concussion Rifle on the cliffs.- It would be very nice to play it in matchmaking. I’d enjoy testing it with or w/out the overpowered Banshee.
-Always Hope
-Good map BUT there are better remakes in forge out there.
-Use more vehicles maybe?
- Use some powerups that aren’t AAs (camo, OS).
> There are many critics within our community clamoring for changes on this iconic remake. Some even wish for it to be scrapped. Although I enjoy Hemorrhage in its current form, I do not want to see it tossed out. Thus, I’d like to make a compromise with those wanting changes. Let’s alter Hemorrhage to reflect some of the XBL multiplayer upgrades we found after the transition from Blood Gulch to Coagulation. Here is a quick list containing the prevalent items:
>
> - Bring the Powerups back to their respective corners of the map- Move the side teleporters back to their original locations on Coagulation- Replace the Plasma Launcher with a Needler- Move the PL to the center of the map (replace it with Rocket?)- If possible, redesign the bases to reflect the two story nature of Coagulation.
> Those items are by no means the only changes one could make to Hemorrhage. I, simply, believe those compromises would all the map to flow a bit better with a greater emphasize on infantry engagements, vehicle combat, and constant movement. That, however, remains to be seen. Thoughts?
>
> -Always Hope
I agree with this completely.
Please take it out from team snipers it’s just a camping fest
Personally, I despise it in it’s current form. Every time it’s voted for - which is every time it appears - I decide to just drive around on a Mongoose attempting Concussion Rifle Launch Splatters, because I hate playing it. For me, there’s literally no reason to use the middle of the map. It’s genuinely a repetitive map. People just camp at spawn for Sniper, and sit on the side Cliffs; or, they spam DMR at long-range. Vehicular warfare is almost non-existent. Nowadays I rarely see anyone attempt to get in the Wraith at spawn. They choose to run through the teleporter and DMR enemy base.
I’d personally put a Laser in the middle of the map. It’d give people a reason to try and control it, and I would also put Powerups back in. There seems to be no attempt by anyone to grab a weapon that doesn’t spawn in their base. The only weapon of note on the map that people want to pick up is the Sniper, and you just spawn on that. The movement and flow of the map is infuriating, for me. Nobody has any reason to really go anywhere. I’d also toy with the idea of moving the teleporters back more towards the bases and placing FRGs in their original spot. Maybe not FRGs but something people want to grab. The main problem is a lack of movement and a contentness to use the spawn weapon. I’ve seen entire games go by without anyone taking the Plasma Launcher, and a couple even without the Wraiths being taken. BTB isn’t meant to just be another DMR-fest. It should have Vehicular Combat - which is all but dead but more a widespread problem than just BTB - and Heavy Weapon usage. It should be a fun playlist to play but right now, because of Hemmorhage and it being voted for 24/7, it isn’t for me.
> Personally, I despise it in it’s current form. Every time it’s voted for - which is every time it appears - I decide to just drive around on a Mongoose attempting Concussion Rifle Launch Splatters, because I hate playing it. For me, there’s literally no reason to use the middle of the map. It’s genuinely a repetitive map. People just camp at spawn for Sniper, and sit on the side Cliffs; or, they spam DMR at long-range. Vehicular warfare is almost non-existent. Nowadays I rarely see anyone attempt to get in the Wraith at spawn. They choose to run through the teleporter and DMR enemy base.
>
> I’d personally put a Laser in the middle of the map. It’d give people a reason to try and control it, and I would also put Powerups back in. There seems to be no attempt by anyone to grab a weapon that doesn’t spawn in their base. The only weapon of note on the map that people want to pick up is the Sniper, and you just spawn on that. The movement and flow of the map is infuriating, for me. Nobody has any reason to really go anywhere. I’d also toy with the idea of moving the teleporters back more towards the bases and placing FRGs in their original spot. Maybe not FRGs but something people want to grab. The main problem is a lack of movement and a contentness to use the spawn weapon. I’ve seen entire games go by without anyone taking the Plasma Launcher, and a couple even without the Wraiths being taken. BTB isn’t meant to just be another DMR-fest. It should have Vehicular Combat - which is all but dead but more a widespread problem than just BTB - and Heavy Weapon usage. It should be a fun playlist to play but right now, because of Hemmorhage and it being voted for 24/7, it isn’t for me.
I agree with you sentence for sentence. I would like to quote this in my new thread. This is one of the biggest issues for me in Big Team
The Plasma Launcher needs to be placed closer to the center. On the rare occasion that both teams go for it, blue team wins 99% of the time, due to their teleporter being much closer and it spawning closer to blue base in general.
Put a kill barrier on top of the sea stack at blue’s teleporter to stop snipers camping up there.
Possibly move red’s teleporter back to where it was in Coagulation.
Also, possibly try replacing the Concussion Rifles with Grenade Launchers, I hardly ever see anyone use the CR on this map anyway.
EDIT: I think blue team’s teleporter might also need to be moved back, but I could be wrong…
Remove Hemorrhage from team snipers. It’s a big map for gametypes like big team slayer and invasion slayer, not a 4v4 snipers only. Makes the gametype boring and full of campers. I rly love team snipers, think it’s a good way of getting more pro, but as long as every other match is on hemorrhage the skill goes away and the camping takes over…
The map is too open. Way. Too. Open.
For this reason alone I think it is the worst BTB has to offer, aside from maybe Utopie or Paradiso. Even so it’s a close call.
But, people want it and if cover is added there WILL be backlash.
The best you can do 343 is wait till Halo 4 and try again.
Either way I strongly dislike this map. But it’s in my personal taste to not enjoy maps that are this open. Some people like sniping and staying at there base with DMRs and Wraiths. I am not one of them, therefore I will likely never enjoy this map no matter the changes.
> Personally, I despise it in it’s current form. Every time it’s voted for - which is every time it appears - I decide to just drive around on a Mongoose attempting Concussion Rifle Launch Splatters, because I hate playing it. For me, there’s literally no reason to use the middle of the map. It’s genuinely a repetitive map. People just camp at spawn for Sniper, and sit on the side Cliffs; or, they spam DMR at long-range. Vehicular warfare is almost non-existent. Nowadays I rarely see anyone attempt to get in the Wraith at spawn. They choose to run through the teleporter and DMR enemy base.
>
> I’d personally put a Laser in the middle of the map. It’d give people a reason to try and control it, and I would also put Powerups back in. There seems to be no attempt by anyone to grab a weapon that doesn’t spawn in their base. The only weapon of note on the map that people want to pick up is the Sniper, and you just spawn on that. The movement and flow of the map is infuriating, for me. Nobody has any reason to really go anywhere. I’d also toy with the idea of moving the teleporters back more towards the bases and placing FRGs in their original spot. Maybe not FRGs but something people want to grab. The main problem is a lack of movement and a contentness to use the spawn weapon. I’ve seen entire games go by without anyone taking the Plasma Launcher, and a couple even without the Wraiths being taken. BTB isn’t meant to just be another DMR-fest. It should have Vehicular Combat - which is all but dead but more a widespread problem than just BTB - and Heavy Weapon usage. It should be a fun playlist to play but right now, because of Hemmorhage and it being voted for 24/7, it isn’t for me.
Really? In my experience, everybody goes for the wraith first chance they get, and I always sprint for the Plasma Launcher and pick of the ghost or revenant that inevitably comes boosting at me.
> > Personally, I despise it in it’s current form. Every time it’s voted for - which is every time it appears - I decide to just drive around on a Mongoose attempting Concussion Rifle Launch Splatters, because I hate playing it. For me, there’s literally no reason to use the middle of the map. It’s genuinely a repetitive map. People just camp at spawn for Sniper, and sit on the side Cliffs; or, they spam DMR at long-range. Vehicular warfare is almost non-existent. Nowadays I rarely see anyone attempt to get in the Wraith at spawn. They choose to run through the teleporter and DMR enemy base.
> >
> > I’d personally put a Laser in the middle of the map. It’d give people a reason to try and control it, and I would also put Powerups back in. There seems to be no attempt by anyone to grab a weapon that doesn’t spawn in their base. The only weapon of note on the map that people want to pick up is the Sniper, and you just spawn on that. The movement and flow of the map is infuriating, for me. Nobody has any reason to really go anywhere. I’d also toy with the idea of moving the teleporters back more towards the bases and placing FRGs in their original spot. Maybe not FRGs but something people want to grab. The main problem is a lack of movement and a contentness to use the spawn weapon. I’ve seen entire games go by without anyone taking the Plasma Launcher, and a couple even without the Wraiths being taken. BTB isn’t meant to just be another DMR-fest. It should have Vehicular Combat - which is all but dead but more a widespread problem than just BTB - and Heavy Weapon usage. It should be a fun playlist to play but right now, because of Hemmorhage and it being voted for 24/7, it isn’t for me.
>
> Really? In my experience, everybody goes for the wraith first chance they get, and I always sprint for the Plasma Launcher and pick of the ghost or revenant that inevitably comes boosting at me.
I’m with Uncivil on this - I can’t stand the map in it’s current form. Here are my thoughts:
I would prefer AR / Magnum default load-outs rather than DMR / AR default load-outs - I believe this would help alleviate the barren nature of the map and DMR camping that ensues as a result of lack of cover.
I have nothing against the DMR - perhaps treat it as a power weapon in this instance however?
> Bring the Powerups back to their respective corners of the map
> Move the side teleporters back to their original locations on Coagulation
> Replace the Plasma Launcher with a Needler
> Move the PL to the center of the map (replace it with Rocket?)
> If possible, redesign the bases to reflect the two story nature of Coagulation.
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I believe AA’s negate the usage of powerups - however if the Anniversary Map Pack (Beaver Creek Powerups) is anything to go by, I reckon it could be worked into matchmaking.
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I would like the tele-porters moved back to their original locations.
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Replace the PL with the Rocket Launcher (with a reduced clip size)
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Yes, move it to the center of the map
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I would welcome a base redesign - I prefer Coagulation’s flow
Bad map for anything other than BTB or Invasion.
That is all.