It was only a matter of time before even the most clandestine UNSC operations were thrust into the public eye.
Discuss your thoughts on the Halo Reach default map, Countdown, here.
Map, is, fine.
I don’t see why people complain about it, everyone has an equal chance at getting the same thing, it’s symmetrical.
If you don’t get them, you have yourself to blame.
-Moa
Needs more cowbell. (Grenade launcher would be nice)
Depends what you want to make it like more.
Some people like the close quarters combat, while others think its too campy. Which it is too campy, especially for competitive play.
I suppose I’ll type up a few options.
Few key words I use throughout this
-Street= Walkway going towards both bases big doors and behind the single air vents
-S2 = Floor 2, in the middle by Tri Lift
-Outside = Where Concussion normally spawns
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Remove Sword, Shotgun and Concussion. Add Sniper and either a Grenade Launcher or Rocket Launcher. Place Sniper either S2 OR on Street. Having the Grenade Launcher or Rockets either Street OR outside.
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Remove either Sword or Shotgun, keeping the other but placing it either bottom middle or street (I’d probably lean towards having shotgun). Placing Grenade Launcher outside and Sniper S2.
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Keep the weapons that are on it now but change Sword to bottom middle? Concussion street and Shotgun outside.
Could even place a Plasma Repeater in Tri Lift and Plasma Rifle at each base, keeping the Plasma Pistols on 3rd floor (assuming bleedthrough beatdowns are in effect).
Meh, off the top of my head. Anyone can comment, add or fix those to something that plays better.
It has the potential to be so much more that it is at the moment. The geometry and map layout are great, what lets it down are the power weapon choices.
There are currently three on the map, including two CQC weapons which brings out the worst in Countdown, camping corners for kills.
The Sword is the biggest problem. 10 guaranteed kills combined with the 18 shot shotgun ruins the map. I think the best thing to do would be to reduce the Shotgun to one spare clip, as well as removing the Sword and replacing it with either Rockets, Sniper or Grenade Launcher. The concussion rifle would be fine as it is.
MLG’s Countdown setup is indisputably better.
> The Sword is the biggest problem. 10 guaranteed kills combined with the 18 shot shotgun ruins the map. I think the best thing to do would be to reduce the Shotgun to one spare clip, as well as removing the Sword and replacing it with either Rockets, Sniper or Grenade Launcher. The concussion rifle would be fine as it is.
I agree that the Sword is a huge problem. Which is why this is how I think it should play out:
1+1 clip Shotgun at default Sword spawn, 1+1 clip Concussion Rifle at default Shotgun spawn, 4 'Nade Grenade Launcher at default Concussion Rifle spawn, Plasma Rifles at Plasma Pistols, moar Magnums (for me :P), and a Plasma Pistol at MLG Sniper spawn and at MLG Rocket Spawn.
The map itself is great but default CQC weapons are too powerful and just turn it into a camp/crouch noob-feast.
Replace concussion rifle/shotgun with Sniper/nade launcher.
Double the energy requirements on the sword so it only has 5 hits. It should still be a power weapon but not “DOLPHIN KNIFE: DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!”
> Map, is, fine.
>
> I don’t see why people complain about it, everyone has an equal chance at getting the same thing, it’s symmetrical.
>
> If you don’t get them, you have yourself to blame.
>
> -Moa
Of course losing the opening rush should be punished but the punishment on this map is far too powerful. Against a decent team, you’re just not going to come back from it, even if your team is more skilled. On other maps, if you gain control, you must fight to keep it. On Countdown, it takes very little skill to keep that control, just a very basic understanding of top position and some level of patience.
Even the better team can get an unlucky start or have someone AFK. If that happens, by no means should it be “easy” to come back, simply possible given the right steps. The punishment should be in a matter of score, not the entire game.
Countdown does not offer this chance. The closed hallways combined with CQC power weapons make it far too unbalanced. The closest thing you have to a comeback option are the sticky grenades + suicide runs.
Shotgun just doesn’t cut it, you have to run across the bottom to get it and will probably get picked off. And even if you do manage to slip by, you’re just trapped at the bottom of the lift and will get destroyed the moment you lift up before even being able to use it.
Take Asylum for example: get an unlucky start and you at least still have your Sniper/Shotgun to possibly make a comeback, given enough of a skill gap.
Boardwalk: sure you lose top control but at least you have a sniper and passages to sneak back across.
Cage: sniper at lift
Powerhouse: Assist rifle, shotgun, hammer & multiple ways to get around
Reflection: sword, shotgun & clear view of those on balcony
Sword Base and Countdown are the only 2 maps which truly leave nothing to have some chance of coming back with. And even Sword Base at least has a bit better chance of getting the sniper due to the fact that top team must give up their cover to shoot down.
I like Countdown as a map, the weapons need some tweaking though. It would also be amazing to get an extended version of Countdown, since there are more levels to it. (look up when you’re playing it)
Shotgun or Sword should be replaced with Sniper, Concussion rifle should be removed. On a map this small, 3 CQ weapons is just ridiculous.
On Multi Team, KoTH, the Hill bottom middle is pointless, most just stand round and wait for idiots to push it. Keep Hills outside, Sword Catwalk and on the Red/Blue Flag spawns.
> Shotgun or Sword should be replaced with Sniper, Concussion rifle should be removed. On a map this small, 3 CQ weapons is just ridiculous.
> On Multi Team, KoTH, the Hill bottom middle is pointless, most just stand round and wait for idiots to push it. Keep Hills outside, Sword Catwalk and on the Red/Blue Flag spawns.
Hope this happens. At this point the map is almost unplayable, every game plays the same - camp the lifts = win
Still no changes?
Change the lame weapon set up, needs a remove sword shotgun and CR and replace with grenade launcher/rockets/sniper max 2.
Not a fan of sword AND shotty on such a tight map. GL would be great instead of sword.
This map is WAY too close-quarters and campy. Having sword, concussion rifle AND shotgun is just ridiculous. Even MLG’s setup doesn’t make it better. Every time I play this map, someone sprints across a room at me while I shoot them 4 times with a DMR, picks up a sword off of the ground, and kills me. The same thing happens with the billions of plasma grenades on this map. People just sprint up, stick you point-blank, then sprint away into another room unscathed.
Without dealing with the Shotgun/Sword camping, this map is actually pretty good, fitting for FFA and team games.
If anything, the Sword should be replaced with a GL and the Shotgun reduced to just six shots with a longer respawn.
I tend to run into problems with players camping by the radios, especially in SWAT. This level is one of the few where I don’t see the use of Jet Pack as a loadout as a bad thing. It allows players to quickly flank via the drop downs and flank opponents camping at the radios.
Countdown
This map is great. I find it fun for all the gametypes I play on it. I do enjoy running around Countdown with a sword or shotgun, and killing everyone I see. However, some may be right about the sword balance, as I got a 17 killstreak with it. (I got the second sword spawn in one life) I think it might just need a longer spawn timer and maybe remove the shotgun completely. I do find dealing with these power weapons is hard, but is also fun. At least for me. I can see why people get mad, however. The rest of the map is fun and balanced, and everyone has the same chance at getting the power weapons since this map is symmetrical. If they just remove the shotgun and increase sword respawn time, I think this map would be a lot more fun.
It has a good map layout but it needs different power weapons. The shotgun and sword promote camping around Countdown’s many corners. If you replace them with the sniper and rocket/grenade launcher it would be a much better map that I would actually vote for.
I would honestly like to see Countdown with a weapon layout more similar to The Pit. As it stands, Countdown is a solid map, but it just feels… boring.
I cannot believe this map still exists in Matchmaking with the current weapon layout. It is such a shame too, because unlike most Reach maps, Countdown is one that actually finds a good balance between all the AA options (Armor Lock excluded).
Unfortunately, the weapon balance just ruins the map. I agree with most of you that say one or two of the sword/shotgun/concussion need to be replaced with a GL/sniper. However, the weapon locations are just as bad as the the weapon themselves. It baffles me that all the power weapons are on the highest level (shotgun included because you have immediate access to the top) which is where people try to control. I get that you should have some sort of advantage when you are controlling a map, but having a CQC weapon spawning almost directly where they are used the most is ridiculous. One power weapon should spawn up there at the most and it shouldn’t be the shotgun or sword.
I’m not sold on simply swapping out the sword/shotty/concussion for a GL/sniper. Casual gamers may like it because it wouldn’t drastically change the way the map is played and power weapon locations would be familiar, just different weapons. I can also imagine the lone sword/shotty being even more overpowered on the map if the opposing team isn’t very good with the GL/sniper. As I said above, I don’t think all the power weapons should spawn on top.
The MLG weapon layout fixes the CQC weapon camping and power weapons spawning on top of the map, but it caters too much to the competitive crowd. Completely removing the CQC weapons doesn’t bridge the gap between those who love the map as it is and those who don’t, it just completely flops it. Now you’ll have casual gamers hating it as much as the competitive ones do now. I also could see the layout not working out as well with AA’s and radar. Rockets probably aren’t the best option for the map either.
I feel like the best layout would be an entirely new one, which does the following: (1) doesn’t entirely remove the CQC weapons, (2) adds both a sniper and a GL, (3) moves the top health-pack to a more open location, (4) places the power weapons away from their most advantageous locations, (5) move the remaining weapons around the map to fit with the major changes, and (6) possibly adding some objects to the map.
A possible layout I would like to try would be the following:
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Either (a) place two, no spare clip, shotguns where the bottom stair plasma nades currently are, or (b) place a sword bottom middle or in front of the garage door (rocket spawn in MLG).
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Place sniper on S3 (in place of health-pack) or at concussion spawn. Keep frags nades on S3.
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Place GL on S2 (sniper spawn in MLG). Move to garage if being so close to sniper spawn is a problem.
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Remove top health-pack. Add two health-packs in place of current plasma pistol spawn, obviously put it on the wall.
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Place a plasma pistol in each lobby.
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Add a set of 1 frag/1 plasma nade somewhere between each garage DMR and Flag locations.
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2 plasma nades where shotgun currently spawns.
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Move the DMR/Needle Rifles around IF needed, seems like their spawns work out pretty well as is though.
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Add a needler in a location not already in use by one of the power weapons (garage, catwalk, concussion spawn), which ever seems to work the best.
In terms of object additions, one in particular I would like to try out would be to add an upside-down sandbag in front of the catwalk lifts. This would allow you to move from the top walkways and catwalk without going through the lift rooms, though it would completely expose you.
As Halo 4 approaches, I feel like there aren’t going to be too many changes to Reach’s matchmaking, but I really feel like Countdown needs a facelift. Maybe my layout doesn’t work out at all, but if anyone wants to try it out send me a friend request and we can test it out, or test out whatever ideas you have.